athom Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Good news then, it didn't take as long as the sceptics predicted and i dare say our favourable position with the new Libyan leaders will see this investment in the area pay off in the long run. Assad next then, or Algeria perhaps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Eagle Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Good news then, it didn't take as long as the sceptics predicted and i dare say our favourable position with the new Libyan leaders will see this investment in the area pay off in the long run. I hope you are being sarcastic, because otherwise this must be the most naive post I have seen here in a long time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1888 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 womens rights will be the first thing to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 There will be a UN mission to see them through to elections. Based on past experience, I would assume the bloodshed hasn't even started properly yet. The in-fighting between rebels is generally much worse when they haven't got a common enemy and they all try to grab for as much power as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athom Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 I hope you are being sarcastic, because otherwise this must be the most naive post I have seen here in a long time... that's a big insult thanks, and you don't even give me the courtesy of a detailed explanation to prove my naivety. You don't think that our essential intervention will help our oil contracts to continue? I can't imagine where you are coming from though on previous posts i can guess it'll be well tangential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athom Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 womens rights will be the first thing to go yeah gaddafi was a champion of women's rights, news just in that Germaine Greer has gone into a state of mourning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1888 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 yeah gaddafi was a champion of women's rights, news just in that Germaine Greer has gone into a state of mourning compared to the rest of the Arab world he most certainly was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athom Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 There will be a UN mission to see them through to elections. Based on past experience, I would assume the bloodshed hasn't even started properly yet. The in-fighting between rebels is generally much worse when they haven't got a common enemy and they all try to grab for as much power as possible. Which irrelevant conflict are you talking about because so far the only comparable situations are Tunisia and Egypt where no such thing has occurred. So far we're 3 for 3 posts showing the great work done by western anit-Islam and anti-arab democracy propagandists of yesteryear telling you to believe Arabs can't be allowed self determination because they'll just implode in a blood bath and women abuse because "that's just how they are" so we need to support the dictators who we just happen to have really sweet oil deals with and an easy life re:Israel. A bit of healthy scepticism lacking edit spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athom Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 compared to the rest of the Arab world he most certainly was So you are seriously mourning the passing of Gaddafi because he was some small fraction more equal in his oppression of men and women than say the Saudi dictators? Do you not think all the Gaddafis and Sauds should be got rid of or should it only be in order of oppressiveness to women? Struggling to understand your thinking on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1888 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I didnt suggest that Gadaffi was a fluffy bunny but he did set in place rights for women that dont exist elsewhere in many Arab states. An installation of a more conservative Islamic govt will be a backward step and from what I can see the rebels are inspired by sharia and all the ills that brings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athom Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 I didnt suggest that Gadaffi was a fluffy bunny but he did set in place rights for women that dont exist elsewhere in many Arab states so you're comparing life under different dictatorships, not very useful when pre-judging what life in an Arab democracy will be like. The prejudice is so ingrained, i forget sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athom Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 I didnt suggest that Gadaffi was a fluffy bunny but he did set in place rights for women that dont exist elsewhere in many Arab states. An installation of a more conservative Islamic govt will be a backward step and from what I can see the rebels are inspired by sharia and all the ills that brings you know almost nothing about sharia, it's a huge subject that you cannot learn by casual observation and listening to propagandists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erranta Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 so you're comparing life under different dictatorships, not very useful when pre-judging what life in an Arab democracy will be like. The prejudice is so ingrained, i forget sometimes. Sarf Morocco vs their (genocidal tendency) Royalty in the North then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1888 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 so you're comparing life under different dictatorships, not very useful when pre-judging what life in an Arab democracy will be like. The prejudice is so ingrained, i forget sometimes. there is no prejudice just extreme doubt as to what will replace the last ruler if it is a true democracy that recognises and installs rights for all then I welcome it if its a case of out of the frying pan then I dont were not all DM readers on here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1888 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 you know almost nothing about sharia, it's a huge subject that you cannot learn by casual observation and listening to propagandists. and you know "absolutely" nothing about who I am and what I know dont dress sharia up as a social local law to stand in judgement of minor issues it includes some of the most barbaric punishments on the planet that if adopted in the west would set back all we have fought and suffered for over many generations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athom Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 there is no prejudice just extreme doubt as to what will replace the last ruler if it is a true democracy that recognises and installs rights for all then I welcome it if its a case of out of the frying pan then I dont were not all DM readers on here i can't understand where your doubt could come from other than propaganda and prejudice. I can understand if you had a sense of the unknown though because in our lifetime we have very little comparable to go by. The only real experience of north Africans i hear about tends to be people who have been there on holiday who practically all come away with the impression of very civil, hospitable, kind and generous people, mature people, this is because they are Muslims not despite it or because some mad dictator instils it in them. Your perspective problem like that of most in the west is because you don't have any in-depth knowledge of what Islam does for a person or you'd not be afraid of it. You give a bunch of Muslims democracy and yes it's very likely they'll vote for people who value Islam as a source of guidance just as the voters do individually. Hardly surprising or a cause for concern if you knew more about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athom Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 and you know "absolutely" nothing about who I am and what I know no really i can guess. But if you have some in depth knowledge that you're hiding, maybe some qualification in Sharia law or middle east history let me know. I'm waiting for Compound Kurt to get into this some time soon He knows everything about life outside his compound you know. dont dress sharia up as a social local law to stand in judgement of minor issues it includes some of the most barbaric punishments on the planet that if adopted in the west would set back all we have fought and suffered for over many generations there we go, there's that in depth knowledge. Didn't take long to get to the end of it. From what i'm told by Saudi's i know no one has even heard of anyone losing a hand for theft there because the threat is so effective there is almost no theft. Funny that, the milder the threatened punishment the more punishment ends up being meted out and the more crimes committed against the law abiding. If the threat is really terrible you never need to actually do it (maybe once a century i guess) and you reduce minor punishments and crime in one swoop. You see even this issue is quite complicated but there is MUCH more to sharia than you know, you must agree surely. hey i guess it's good that you're not automatically assuming they'll be terrorists though, unless that was your next accusation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crash2006 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 i guess the refugees in Europe can go home now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athom Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 i guess the refugees in Europe can go home now? Some will want to, doesn't look like much fun sitting on Lampedusa. But I expect many people who have recently been supporting Gaddafi against the people will be heading this way if they can. There's bound to be some round ups but i dare say they'll probably be reasonably magnanimous in victory, that's the guidance offered by Islam anyway and according to 1888 they are very much intent on following Islam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Which irrelevant conflict are you talking about because so far the only comparable situations are Tunisia and Egypt where no such thing has occurred. In fact, Tunisia and Egypt aren't comaprable situations as it wasn't many factions taking over. I'll give you 3 comparable situations of the top of my head where a government has been removed and the resulting power struggle has cost many lives; Iraq Arghanistan South Sudan (Just starting at the minute now the referendum has been completed and the country has been formed). So far we're 3 for 3 posts showing the great work done by western anit-Islam and anti-arab democracy propagandists of yesteryear telling you to believe Arabs can't be allowed self determination because they'll just implode in a blood bath and women abuse because "that's just how they are" so we need to support the dictators who we just happen to have really sweet oil deals with and an easy life re:Israel. A bit of healthy scepticism lacking edit spelling Taking that from my post shows more about the chip on your shoulder and your biased outlook than it does about mine. Put it back in the deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 One of his sons on the phone whinging about armed men being in his house - ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Which one of the Gadaffi's allegedly paid Beyonce a million to thrust her bot at his birthday party earlier this year? Was Beyonce the final straw for the Libyan people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 i guess the refugees in Europe can go home now? Hopefully, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ25mHpSc5w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monks Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ25mHpSc5w I don't know what is more disturbing - their human rights record or their taste in music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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