interestrateripoff Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumertips/8416688/Smart-meters-save-just-23-as-energy-taxes-and-bills-rise.html So-called smart meters, digital devices which will be installed in all households and businesses, are designed to end unreliable estimated gas and electricity bills and stop the need for companies to send out meter inspectors. Instead, information about how much energy consumers have used will be sent electronically to their suppliers.However, documents published by the Department for Energy and Climate Change (Decc) have confirmed that households will have to pay for the £11.3 billion roll out, and that they will only save £23 a year by 2020. That saving equates to just 2 per cent of the current average household energy bill of £1,132 and does not take into account forecasts that gas and electricity bills will climb substantially over the next decade. Ofgem, the industry regulator, has predicted that bills are likely to rise by between £168 and £700 a year by 2016 because of the need by the energy companies to invest vast sums in new power stations. Various green measures are likely to increase household bills even further. Tom Lyon, energy expert at uSwitch.com, the price comparison site, said:“The average household energy bill is already £1,132 a year with £84 of that made up by hidden taxes. Policies launched under the previous Government are expected to add a further 6 per cent or £72 in levies over the next decade – this means that the hidden taxes on our energy bills will add up to £156 a year, far outweighing the potential £23 net saving offered through smart metering.” Thank god the public isn't facing a drop in incomes otherwise this roll out would be completely moronic. Once more the public get shafted. Bend over and take it folks, that's all we are here for. And somehow they expect the consumer to start spending and buying tat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corevalue Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) The driver for smart metering is flexible tariffs. They will adjust the price of a kWh minute by minute according to how the generators are doing. If it's a calm, dull day, expect the price to soar. It will be up to you to watch your indicator to see if you want to "consume" the energy at that particular time. Further along the road, they want to roll out smart appliances, that can be remotely inhibited by the supplier to suit their needs (not yours), like your freezer will only work at night, or your kettle won't work, because they are trying to cap consumption on the grid. There is a trial going on right now with E-On and Indesit, IIRC, with "smart" fridges and freezers. Edit for spelling Edited March 31, 2011 by corevalue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 The driver for smart metering is flexible tariffs. They will adjust the price of a kWh minute by minute according to how the generators are doing. If it's a calm, dull day, expect the price to soar. It will be up to you to watch your indicator to see if you want to "consume" the energy at that particular time. Further along the road, they want to roll out smart appliances, that can be remotely inhibited by the supplier to suit their needs (not yours), like your freezer will only work at night, or your kettle won't work, because they are trying to cap consumption on the grid. There is a trial going on right now with E-On and Indesit, IIRC, with "smart" fridges and freezers. Edit for spelling Will you get remote access so you can login to the equipment and be able to power it off? If it's calm, dull day and your at work who can you stop your fridge from consuming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corevalue Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Will you get remote access so you can login to the equipment and be able to power it off? If it's calm, dull day and your at work who can you stop your fridge from consuming? Depends on the implementation. Over in the US there's a lot of complaints about the extra RF radiation in houses - some places there have adopted wi-fi type solutions. I'm not sure what is intended here, I think it's signalling over the power lines themselves to the appliances, with wireless back to the power utility, in which case, you may not be able to access your own appliances remotely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Nothing like adding undue stress into people's lives. Something, a service we pay already for, and don't worry about (except for the rising costs), and a little extra tension is added (until people give up with the monitoring). With the hidden taxes, the carbon nonsense and the delays in planning for and providing strategically sound energy, this I'm sure will see a huge backlash for the greens and their zealotry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Time to go off-grid, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rahhhh Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 53 million households and businesses £23 = 1.2billion annual saving. 10 year repayment, not great but better than solar or windmills by a long shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scepticus Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 If it's calm, dull day and your at work who can you stop your fridge from consuming? Quite simple, you have a smart fridge which obeys a command to maintain an average temperature over a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichM Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 11 Billion? How far towards our bright Thorium future would that have taken us I wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 The driver for smart metering is flexible tariffs. They will adjust the price of a kWh minute by minute according to how the generators are doing. If it's a calm, dull day, expect the price to soar. It will be up to you to watch your indicator to see if you want to "consume" the energy at that particular time. Further along the road, they want to roll out smart appliances, that can be remotely inhibited by the supplier to suit their needs (not yours), like your freezer will only work at night, or your kettle won't work, because they are trying to cap consumption on the grid. There is a trial going on right now with E-On and Indesit, IIRC, with "smart" fridges and freezers. Edit for spelling Seems an awful lot of cost and effort for most 'appliances'. Marginal savings I'd have thought? But happy to be told otherwise. Isn't it the case that space heating is the most significant user of energy in most homes? Always has been in mine anyway. Probably followed by hot water, cooking and perhaps the tumble dryer in winter. Not sure I really want to be cooking my evening meal at 3 am every morning....... A case of KISS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scepticus Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Seems an awful lot of cost and effort for most 'appliances'. Marginal savings I'd have thought? But happy to be told otherwise. the point is to give people minute by minute control of their energy expenditure. The potential savings as a result are vast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corevalue Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 the point is to give people minute by minute control of their energy expenditure. The potential savings as a result are vast. ********, I'm afraid. The same amount of cooking, washing and storing cold food will occur, the only way to change that is to vastly improve the appliances, which are already well down the curve of possible improvement. It will just inconvenience people and add to their costs. The only savings are to the power suppliers, who won't have to provide as much infrastructure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Congreve Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumertips/8416688/Smart-meters-save-just-23-as-energy-taxes-and-bills-rise.html Thank god the public isn't facing a drop in incomes otherwise this roll out would be completely moronic. Once more the public get shafted. Bend over and take it folks, that's all we are here for. And somehow they expect the consumer to start spending and buying tat! Hey, easy there. Anything move that squeezes the consumer and therefore the economy and therefore the housing market is good by me, I'm happy to pay a few quid extra on leccy to save thousands on a house. Think of it as the inverse of the boom time oxy-moron of going, "Oh look at all these cheap consumer goods getting even cheaper!", while the cost of living actually spirals due the fact housing is going through the roof at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxe Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 One key concern from campaigners is that most of the savings will be achieved by consumers only if they use the meter readings to change their behaviour. The meters will display how much energy consumers have used and what it has cost them, along with a message indicating whether this is higher or lower than normal. So it will tell me that boiling a kettle uses lots of energy. Duh, I didn't know that. The people who are smart enough to interpret the results and do something about it are the same people who know that if the appliance says 3kW on the back, it will use a load of power. Most people are too think to work this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyMe Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Time to go off-grid, I think. I bet they work it so that you have to go 100% off grid to make the savings - lumping on every larger fixed costs (or sliding scale energy charges) as more poelpe try and reduce their consumption. Could always share one power supply amongst a number of neighbours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Eagle Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Time to go off-grid, I think. Agreed, and 'zero point energy' makes it possible. The 80 year veil of secrecy the 'elite' has so far successfully kept on ZPE is crumbling fast, more and more people are discovering it and there are even 'normal' people (not only scientists) experimenting with it as a quick youtube search will show. With ZPE there will be soon no need anymore for centralised power stations or coal, oil or gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Agreed, and 'zero point energy' makes it possible. The 80 year veil of secrecy the 'elite' has so far successfully kept on ZPE is crumbling fast, more and more people are discovering it and there are even 'normal' people (not only scientists) experimenting with it as a quick youtube search will show. With ZPE there will be soon no need anymore for centralised power stations or coal, oil or gas. Before I 'gave up' and departed to the Middle East I seriously looked into off grid. Indeed some will remmeber my solar hot water, wood burner, and PV experiments. I reckon to go off grid you either have to look at waste veg oil CHP which limits the amount of battery storage needed or go for a solar ./ wind hybrid system which requires shed lots of batteries. Either way you are looking at spending >£15K. That said I noticed on Ebay last night that the cost of 200W monosolar panels is near on £2 a watt so a good time to buy if you have cash being eroded by inflation in the bank. The starting point is to get electricity consumption as low as possible; CFL/LED lighting Ultra efficient appliances (out goes the Plasma) Retraining of wifey and kids along the lines China's cultural revolution If the smart meters facilitate dynamic demand in the UK to fluctuating power supplies then I think they are a good idea. They may just allow Britainistan to keep the lights on in the face of variable wind, LNG deliveries, and interconnector supplies. Also good for dealing with lumpy sources like nucs suddenly going off line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 So it will tell me that boiling a kettle uses lots of energy. Duh, I didn't know that. The people who are smart enough to interpret the results and do something about it are the same people who know that if the appliance says 3kW on the back, it will use a load of power. Most people are too think to work this out. Sorry... Although, yes, the standards of science education are pretty rubbish in this country as in many others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedgefunded Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 "It's true folks, total government control in the name of smart-grid technology..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Agreed, and 'zero point energy' makes it possible. The 80 year veil of secrecy the 'elite' has so far successfully kept on ZPE is crumbling fast, more and more people are discovering it and there are even 'normal' people (not only scientists) experimenting with it as a quick youtube search will show. With ZPE there will be soon no need anymore for centralised power stations or coal, oil or gas. Yes, ZPE is completely free and unlimited. All you need to do is find a patch of universe with a lower ZPE to dump the heat into. Otherwise, of course, ZPE is about as useful as a water wheel in the ocean.. yes there's lots of water.. but.. no hills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DustyDog Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Time to go off-grid, I think. My household has been off-grid for the last six years. No leccy bills, gas (bottle) fridge, solar pv, solar hot water, wood burner, etc. We're now actually considering connecting up the mains....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 My household has been off-grid for the last six years. No leccy bills, gas (bottle) fridge, solar pv, solar hot water, wood burner, etc. We're now actually considering connecting up the mains....... I used to work for a pub Co and had the opportunity to acquire huge volumes of WVO. I seriously thought about buying one of these; http://www.volvoxengineering.com/Fuel.htm from which I would make all my leccy and hot water from. However my house although detatched is in a built up area and I could see that being a problem. Also thought about converting to biodisel for the motor (did about 2K a month business miles). Then again pissing around with a neurotoxin like methanol not such a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corevalue Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 ust Say NO to “Big Brother’s” Smart Meters By Orlean Koehle Most Americans have not yet heard of the “smart meters” that are being installed at a rapid pace across the state of California and across our nation. Most Americans are totally unaware that someone will soon be showing up at your home, and, without knocking, or asking for your permission, will remove your old analog meter and replace it with a new “smart meter.” Is this something you would really want? What is a smart meter? It is one that contains RF (radio frequency) so that it can be remotely controlled and read. No longer will a meter reader have to come to your home to read the meter. It will all be done remotely. When all is in place, the smart meter will not only keep track of how much electricity you are using, but it will be able to control, regulate, and ration your use of that electricity. If “big brother” decides that you are using too much heat in the winter time, or too much air conditioning in the summer time, or using too much hot water in your showers or washing machine (even if you are willing to pay for that extra usage), that use of power will be automatically turned down. A future goal is to have all appliances replaced with those containing RF chips for even more regulations and controls. Meanwhile, in California Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phead Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Depends on the implementation. Over in the US there's a lot of complaints about the extra RF radiation in houses - some places there have adopted wi-fi type solutions. I'm not sure what is intended here, I think it's signalling over the power lines themselves to the appliances, with wireless back to the power utility, in which case, you may not be able to access your own appliances remotely. The amateur radio bunch have just forced ofcom to release a report on radio leakage from power line devices, ofcom have been trying to bury it for a while. It turns out every device tested exceeded the legal limits by a massive amount. AFAIK the idea for the uk test was never to allow you to do anything yourself, its just to knock off your fridge for a few minutes during the advert break in coronation street (or similar) , to avoid having to fire up a hydro plant to meet demand. I do support smart meters though, and if you read the telegraph article the whole premise is that if your a muppet and don't bother to monitor your usage when you are given the very best tools to do so, then you will not save money. That isn't a good reason to not go ahead with the scheme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahBell Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 (edited) http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/sep/21/scienceofclimatechange.climatechange Einstein fridge design can help global cooling Scientists relaunch a 1930 invention that uses no electricity and would reduce greenhouse gases Or one of these http://www.instructables.com/id/Garden-Camping-Festival-no-electricity-Fridge/ Has it been a clever idea to move towards digital radio though? How many battery powered radios for digital are there? Edited April 1, 2011 by SarahBell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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