This Xmas, I Struggled To Find Anything That Was Not Made In China

[smiffy1967]

This Xmas, I struggled to find anything that was not made in China

There was not a product that i either looked at or purchased that was not made in China!

Kids net books - made in china

wife's north face jacket - made in china

hello kitty items for the kids made in china

hell, we even import Garlic from China

What were they thinking in the west when the yanks gave china most favoured nation trading status?

what were they thinking all those years ago when they had the GATT talks

what were they thinking when they allowed China to join the WTO?

They have created mass unemployment in the west, which will threaten there very own security!

[Ruffneck]

Haven't seen many fragrances/perfumes made in China.

Like i did recount a few months ago , i saw some Chocolate 'made in China' but with 'Belgian chocolate'.What is the point?

[bogbrush]

It has largely allowed low rates and massive credit expansion without runaway inflation, which is why you now have a vast Welfare State and massive debt.

Take out Far East supply and go back 15 years; you have higher rates, a NHS about half the size of now and so on. It was a huge mistake, but it's what they were up to. Now it needs reversing but the poulation doesn't get it that all this is connected, they just want to blame the banks when the root cause is a degenerate attitude of wanting stuff by entitlement for nothing.

[winkie]

...what would we have done without China and the exploitation of their cheap labour......China has allowed us to become spoilt and lazy.

...now they want a bit of what we have got...can you blame them.

[bogbrush]

I have little problem trading with new countries.

The problem I have is when trade is imbalanced and the surplus country is able to pump their surplus back into the deficit country over and over again which makes the recipient country increasingly uncompetitive as land prices rise.

If trade is balanced then one or other of the parties is not 'hollowed out' and left dangerously indebted.

Well, yes, but with the rider that we did this to ourselves; China didn't force us to re-borrow, we did it because we thought they were the slaves and we the Masters, that they were working for us for nothing and that we could have all this sh1t with the proceeds of our superiority.

I talk as if this is in the past but of course most people can't accept the truth. Just look at the reaction on tuition fees.

[Trampa501]

Amen

For many years people thought the free money tree was gordo's invention,then they realsied that it was made in china too.

Without defending Clunk, I do wonder why he's held accountable for the actions of a majority of western countries.

As for the danger of most items being manufactured in China, I suspect there will be a tipping point, and then (eventually) the location of the factories return to (impoverished) western countries. This may be brought on by the high cost of transporting the goods, a dramatic change in the exchange rate, or even a change in Chinese society. Nothing lasts for ever. We've seen how the manufacture of goods can quickly be re-located; I would not bet against the process being reversed at some point, perhaps sooner than we can guess (I'm thinking 7-8 years)

[ken_ichikawa]

Without defending Clunk, I do wonder why he's held accountable for the actions of a majority of western countries.

As for the danger of most items being manufactured in China, I suspect there will be a tipping point, and then (eventually) the location of the factories return to (impoverished) western countries. This may be brought on by the high cost of transporting the goods, a dramatic change in the exchange rate, or even a change in Chinese society. Nothing lasts for ever. We've seen how the manufacture of goods can quickly be re-located; I would not bet against the process being reversed at some point, perhaps sooner than we can guess (I'm thinking 7-8 years)

Who says if China gets expensive they will relocate here?

Remember we still have lots of even cheaper places with worse rights than China. The Eastern Bloc like Urkraine. Moldova, Bellarus all of which have crushing poverty.

There is even Libya, Morrocco, Turkey, Alegeria etc.

Even if factories move back to the UK then what guarentee is there they will use labour intensive processes instead of use robots?

[OnlyMe]

Without defending Clunk, I do wonder why he's held accountable for the actions of a majority of western countries.

As for the danger of most items being manufactured in China, I suspect there will be a tipping point, and then (eventually) the location of the factories return to (impoverished) western countries. This may be brought on by the high cost of transporting the goods, a dramatic change in the exchange rate, or even a change in Chinese society. Nothing lasts for ever. We've seen how the manufacture of goods can quickly be re-located; I would not bet against the process being reversed at some point, perhaps sooner than we can guess (I'm thinking 7-8 years)

It costs a lot of money to transfer production - you need a differntial to make it worthwhile.

Once it is gone its gone, in the UK's case in particular the last 10 years will be looked back on as the worst period of self-harm in history.

[durhamborn]

This Xmas, I struggled to find anything that was not made in China

There was not a product that i either looked at or purchased that was not made in China!

Kids net books - made in china

wife's north face jacket - made in china

hello kitty items for the kids made in china

hell, we even import Garlic from China

What were they thinking in the west when the yanks gave china most favoured nation trading status?

what were they thinking all those years ago when they had the GATT talks

what were they thinking when they allowed China to join the WTO?

They have created mass unemployment in the west, which will threaten there very own security!

Ok im going to defend China simply through my own VI.

The company i work for pays top money for our industry and the reason we have done so well is selling so much to China.In fact we might not of survived without the work,and its big bucks top end engineering.

I also set up my own business.Importing from China.I use a company in China who source for me and handle everything right to my front door.I can turn everything over in 8 weeks with 40%-70% markups undercutting big retailers by 50%.

However the real big one is £/$ exchange rate.The chinese only accept the $ and the more sterling weakens the less profit.Goods 18 months ago i could get for £10 and sell for £25-£30 now cost £16-£18.Down to exchange rates and inflation in China.

The problem as stated is that all low end manufacturing is gone in the Uk.So the only thing we will get is inflation.The answer isnt for China to make less.Its for China to start buying more of what we make.Pharma,high end engineering etc instead of simply buying US/UK/Euro debt.

[ken_ichikawa]

O.Its for China to start buying more of what we make.Pharma,high end engineering etc instead of simply buying US/UK/Euro debt.

Why do they have to buy our stuff when they can make it themselves? Remember how Airbus and Boeing thought China was a massive untapped market? Then China went and made the C919, initial versions will use US and European parts but over time they will make their own. Hyundai did exactly this in the 1990s using licensed ford engines. Less than 5 years later they had assimilated the technology and built native versions of the tech themselves.

Even if western stuff is vastly superior they can simply clean room reverse engineer it.

[corevalue]

For manufacturing to return to the UK, we would have to see land lose 90% of it's value. Factories get built where the capital cost is low, and labour is cheap. Distance to market doesn't matter any more, The holders of this asset will do everything they can to avoid depreciation of land values.

[durhamborn]

Why do they have to buy our stuff when they can make it themselves? Remember how Airbus and Boeing thought China was a massive untapped market? Then China went and made the C919, initial versions will use US and European parts but over time they will make their own. Hyundai did exactly this in the 1990s using licensed ford engines. Less than 5 years later they had assimilated the technology and built native versions of the tech themselves.

Even if western stuff is vastly superior they can simply clean room reverse engineer it.

Not if you go in a 50/50 joint venture.The way in China is to join forces with a local company.It means giving technology away yes,but it also means you are into their markets with a local player.Our partner now manufactures a lot of parts we used to make here yes,but we also sell much more in China because of them.Go in with them as equals and there is fantastic business in China.

[Saving For a Space Ship]

For manufacturing to return to the UK, we would have to see land lose 90% of it's value. Factories get built where the capital cost is low, and labour is cheap. Distance to market doesn't matter any more, The holders of this asset will do everything they can to avoid depreciation of land values.

Bear in mind that a lot of land in China is polluted. even the state admits 10% (2007)

"If I have obscene mountains of tat, it is only by standing on the shoulders of Chinese slaves."

(forgive me Mr. I. Newton)

[corevalue]

Bear in mind that a lot of land in China is polluted. even the state admits 10% (2007)

"If I have obscene mountains of tat, it is only by standing on the shoulders of Chinese slaves."

(forgive me Mr. I. Newton)

Indeed. We exported it to them.

[wonderpup]

It has largely allowed low rates and massive credit expansion without runaway inflation, which is why you now have a vast Welfare State and massive debt.

Take out Far East supply and go back 15 years; you have higher rates, a NHS about half the size of now and so on. It was a huge mistake, but it's what they were up to. Now it needs reversing but the poulation doesn't get it that all this is connected, they just want to blame the banks when the root cause is a degenerate attitude of wanting stuff by entitlement for nothing.

I doubt that 'they'- by which I guess you mean the bulk of the population- had any idea what the implications of GATT or all the other globalisation agreements were in the first place.

You only have to look at the way these agreements were designed to see who the beneficiaries were going to be- they are loaded with protective rules for capital holders and investors and make almost no mention of any protection for labour.

Without some degree of protection for labour and the environment globalisation was always going to be a grubby race for the bottom.

Therefore protecting labour rights through GATT Article XX is impossible, even if the production of the product may threaten human life. For example, the worst forms of child labour are a heinous practice which fall within the Article XX exception - yet children cannot be protected under this because it is their work conditions which are harmful, not the products themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Standards_in_the_World_Trade_Organisation

Edited January 2, 2011 by wonderpup

[getknk]

the whole point is

nothing last forever

but contradicting fact..

is peak time of our life it will last !!

[bogbrush]

I doubt that 'they'- by which I guess you mean the bulk of the population- had any idea what the implications of GATT or all the other globalisation agreements were in the first place.

You only have to look at the way these agreements were designed to see who the beneficiaries were going to be- they are loaded with protective rules for capital holders and investors and make almost no mention of any protection for labour.

Without some degree of protection for labour and the environment globalisation was always going to be a grubby race for the bottom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Standards_in_the_World_Trade_Organisation

Hey, how many really look further than the end of their noses? There were higher house values, endless cheap goods and the land of milk and honey. So they kept electing them and indeed turned all elections until the last into a beauty contest about who would blow the most money on more free stuff for the populace. Even the last involved all 3 lying like crazy because they would never be elected on an austerity ticket.

At some point the people have to take responsibility; Gordon was a symptom, not the root cause of the problem.

[MarkG]

For manufacturing to return to the UK, we would have to see land lose 90% of it's value.

It's worse than that, because the government spent much of the last decade paying companies to sell their factories to developers who wanted to build 'executive apartment' blocks and move production abroad. So not only does the land cost make factories unaffordable, but many of the old ones are simply gone.

I can just imagine the NIMBY backlash at the prospect of companies 'concreting over green fields' to build new factories.

[wonderpup]

Hey, how many really look further than the end of their noses? There were higher house values, endless cheap goods and the land of milk and honey. So they kept electing them and indeed turned all elections until the last into a beauty contest about who would blow the most money on more free stuff for the populace. Even the last involved all 3 lying like crazy because they would never be elected on an austerity ticket.

At some point the people have to take responsibility; Gordon was a symptom, not the root cause of the problem.

The root cause of the problem was a cultural shift toward a value system that begins and ends with 'greed is good'- in such a system corruption on all levels is merely a specialised expression of the dominant meme.

Taking responsibility has no meaning in a context where self interest is the only game in town. The city are even now preparing a 7 billion payout for a relative handful of people- if money talks then the message from the establishment is clear, take what you can, while you can and screw the consequences.

Lets face it,anyone who plays by the rules today is in danger of looking like a fool.

[sortofsilver]

People want what they want and they want them cheap. China is the answer to these requirements. I have no problem with Chinese goods, as you said you are hard pushed to find items that are not made in China. Buy unbranded Chinese goods and you are at the mercy of their quality control and lets face it most of this is about cutting costs. When you buy a Sony, LG or Samsung TV you are paying for their quality control demands because these are international companies that want to be known for good quality and do not want to foot the bill for warranty repairs or being sued.

[bogbrush]

The root cause of the problem was a cultural shift toward a value system that begins and ends with 'greed is good'- in such a system corruption on all levels is merely a specialised expression of the dominant meme.

Taking responsibility has no meaning in a context where self interest is the only game in town. The city are even now preparing a 7 billion payout for a relative handful of people- if money talks then the message from the establishment is clear, take what you can, while you can and screw the consequences.

Lets face it,anyone who plays by the rules today is in danger of looking like a fool.

"Take responsibility" in the context of stop blaming everyone else and accept that this is what the majority of people kept voting for because that's what people are like. And always have been.

This talk of a time when people didn't look out for themselves is like talk of the Golden Age of TV. It never happened.

[awaytogo]

I have little problem trading with new countries.

The problem I have is when trade is imbalanced and the surplus country is able to pump their surplus back into the deficit country over and over again which makes the recipient country increasingly uncompetitive as land prices rise.

If trade is balanced then one or other of the parties is not 'hollowed out' and left dangerously indebted.

eventually it will have to balance itself out by their wages increasing or our falling, as the china economy will not last long if thier are no jobs in the rest of the world to enable people to earn money to pay for their goods, we have seen it before, not as bad with the Japanese flooding our markets with their goods.

[Guest The Relaxation Suite]

Without defending Clunk, I do wonder why he's held accountable for the actions of a majority of western countries.

As for the danger of most items being manufactured in China, I suspect there will be a tipping point, and then (eventually) the location of the factories return to (impoverished) western countries. This may be brought on by the high cost of transporting the goods, a dramatic change in the exchange rate, or even a change in Chinese society. Nothing lasts for ever. We've seen how the manufacture of goods can quickly be re-located; I would not bet against the process being reversed at some point, perhaps sooner than we can guess (I'm thinking 7-8 years)

Manufacturing moves to Africa after China. The Chinese colonisation of Africa has already started in terms of resources extraction. Factories are next. We've all read the manual. We all know how it works.

[OnlyMe]

Manufacturing moves to Africa after China. The Chinese colonisation of Africa has already started in terms of resources extraction. Factories are next. We've all read the manual. We all know how it works.

Won't need to, they have the manufacturing volume and the skills they need to shift their production methods efficiently from labour intensive to technology intensive. What that does to their population not sure, maybe the rural sector stays rural and stops manning the sweat shop factories.

[Ellie]

People want what they want and they want them cheap. China is the answer to these requirements. I have no problem with Chinese goods, as you said you are hard pushed to find items that are not made in China. Buy unbranded Chinese goods and you are at the mercy of their quality control and lets face it most of this is about cutting costs. When you buy a Sony, LG or Samsung TV you are paying for their quality control demands because these are international companies that want to be known for good quality and do not want to foot the bill for warranty repairs or being sued.

Well I do have a problem with Chinese goods because invariably the quality of the product declines. I could cite any number of examples - in my areas of interest (outdoorsy): Berghaus, North Face, Scarpa, Mammut, Dr Martens etc etc etc. Mostly of course these brands are seeking to reduce production costs whilst maintaining high point-of-sale prices by virtue of their good name - earned prior to their moving production to China.

China-produced goods invariably means quality-creep and I am sick and tired of paying for a well known brand only for it to fall apart after a few months - if I had paid less for a Chinese own brand then I would have thought ah well you get what you pay for but in fact you pay a large amount for what is now an inferior product. I never buy anything made in China if I can avoid it - unfortunately this is becoming more and more difficult.

Edited January 3, 2011 by Ellie