Chaos As Ba Staff Looking To Be Christmas Turkeys On Strike.

[Injin]

Why are they paid so much id everyone can do it ? Why does the staff permit Directors ? Injin.

Because those friends with guns limit the market?

It's all rather sad. Simple things made difficult so that one guy can do relatively better than the next rather than everyone doing objectively better than yesterday.

"A director" is just a bloke, doing a job. Replacable part in an enterprise.

[geoffk]

They can sack them all if they want..and you will not be able to go to a tribunal..happened to me.....have a read of this..

http://www.vigilancebulletin.org/PDF/V-P&OSea88-89.pdf

[Injin]

Do I hear a hint of violence in that comment ?

Well you already threatened him a few times, so I don't see how you can complain when he does it back.

[Johnny Storm]

Do I hear a hint of violence in that comment ?

Hes right. People should start getting all punisher on people that sht on them. It would make the world a much better place.

[US Citizen]

He is quite right though, you can be clever and twist things around but it soon gets worked out by those you overpower and then life becomes interesting for you.

I am merely stating what will happen if BA doesnt give into the demands. Its that or the bankcrupcy courts.

[Guest absolutezero]

Do I hear a hint of violence in that comment ?

You can hear whatever you like.

[Guest absolutezero]

I am merely stating what will happen if BA doesnt give into the demands. Its that or the bankcrupcy courts.

It's going to be dead in the medium to long term anyway.

The staff are right to hold out for their decent pay and conditions until it falls apart.

[US Citizen]

You can hear whatever you like.

Do you work for BA by any chance, if so then maybe a hypotetical argument on a forum to do with talking bull allday is probably not the best use of your time. My apologise if I was insensitive.

[Injin]

I am merely stating what will happen if BA doesnt give into the demands. Its that or the bankcrupcy courts.

I am merely stating that your reliance on people with special powers won't actually affect anything in the real world.

A pissed off bloke you have wronged who gets fobbed off by a court is the same guy who chins you a few years later when you bump into him in the supermarket. Or keys your car, or spreads rumours about your lovelife. Or whatever.

[Guest absolutezero]

They can sack them all if they want..and you will not be able to go to a tribunal..happened to me.....have a read of this..

http://www.vigilancebulletin.org/PDF/V-P&OSea88-89.pdf

The bosses would do well to think about what would happen if trade unions didn't exist or weren't allowed to conduct their business appropriately.

The workers would just do things their own way and the consequences would not be pleasant for the bosses.

The unions are actually in a way protecting the bosses.

[Johnny Storm]

I am merely stating that your reliance on people with special powers won't actually affect anything in the real world.

A pissed off bloke you have wronged who gets fobbed off by a court is the same guy who chins you a few years later when you bump into him in the supermarket. Or keys your car, or spreads rumours about your lovelife. Or whatever.

What was that film where the guy killed every single relative of the guy who wronged him, and then when his entire line was wiped from the earth, he killed the guy last.

[US Citizen]

I've got products to put up on my online shop. I'll come back when the talk of killing has subsided.

[Injin]

What was that film where the guy killed every single relative of the guy who wronged him, and then when his entire line was wiped from the earth, he killed the guy last.

[Guest absolutezero]

Do you work for BA by any chance, if so then maybe a hypotetical argument on a forum to do with talking bull allday is probably not the best use of your time. My apologise if I was insensitive.

I don't work for BA but I do enjoy a good argument (hypothetical or otherwise)...

[Johnny Storm]

Maybe keeping all the money in the country and restricting over seas travel will help the country in a round about way.

I wonder how much money would be spent abroad by those people who would have been abroad for Xmas.

People need to start adapting to the idea that a cheap holiday abroad is a thing of the past.

[Guest absolutezero]

People need to start adapting to the idea that a cheap holiday abroad is a thing of the past.

They'll get used to that when the oil gets too expensive.

This is why BA is done for in the medium to long term.

[Goat]

I couldn't care less how much they earn. It's totally irrelevant. It doesn't support my arguement.

I do care that some people have the balls to stand up for their terms and conditions.

Corrected for you.

It's tough to argue that the workers are right and the bosses are wrong when they are being paid double what everyone else is earning.

[Johnny Storm]

Corrected for you.

It's tough to argue that the workers are right and the bosses are wrong when they are being paid double what everyone else is earning.

I bet whatever job you do there is someone somewhere doing the same job for half as much. Does that mean you want your salary slashed, or that its fair?

[SMAC67]

I don;'t get it.

I can understand that it can't be afforded to pay the staff.

But why the hostility to them asking for it or refusing to work?

Nothing wrong with downing tools or asking for something from someone. Nowt rong with being told no. Nowt wrong with checking you aren't being bu11shitted either.

For me it's the most interesting aspect of our current economic malaise. Workers for some reason think that contracts only apply for those at a management level, that workers somehow make decisions and run the company, and that if only everyone worked for free we wouldn't have any problems whatsoever.

For a start this is the same management team that cost BA 300million quid in fines. Now, if any worker cost any company even a fraction of that they would be out the door without a penny. However, in the whacky world of modern management it was promotions and multi-million pound bonuses all round.

Walsh is leaving within 12 months so he has no interest in the long term viability of BA but he very much has an interest in maximising his bonus, which is approximately 10% of the money saved. In respect to the cabin crew he is looking to save over 100 milion alone, which means a rather large chunk of change in anyone's book.

So I guess what could happen is that on the day he comes to collect his swag he could simply be told that due to unforseen circumstances his contract will no longer be honoured. Can someone explain why contracts are irrelevant for everyone below director level within any company?

Employee costs continue to tumble across the world of commercial aviation. They are simply a red herring for what is really happening, and the ultimate end-game. Aviation , much like the car manufacturing industry and the Premier League, cannot be saved..........................but then again, neither can the banks............we really are re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Any strike now is simply a symptom reflecting a much more serious (and deadly) disease, namely the fact that BA is insolvent, just like 99% of the industry...........

[dhpcza]

How many more people are going to whine "BUT THEY ARE ALREADY ON SOO MUCH MONEY!!"

Yes, they are on lots of money because they and their union refuse to eat sh1t. Maybe the spivs can give up some money so the little people can have some of the good life. No, what an abhorrent idea. Big money is only for those talented director types, like Fred Goodwin.

It's the same with the tube drivers "OOH, BUT THEY EARN SO MUCH MONEY ALREADY BLAHDY BLAH BLAH" -- again, because their union does its f*cking job.

A few decades ago, wasn't board level pay much nearer to the lower rung workers, like maybe 5 or 10 times higher? What is it now, a 100 times higher? And people moan at successful unions who negotiate better pay for their staff. As I said, maybe the spivs should be giving something back, or is that too outlandish?

[SMAC67]

They'll get used to that when the oil gets too expensive.

This is why BA is done for in the medium to long term.

Exactly AbsoluteZero, commercial aviation is based on a barrel of oil being in the region of $35 a barrel. In the last 10-15 years oil has been at record low prices, hence the proliferation of companies, low cost and otherwise. We now have a distorted market place based on unrealistic price assumptions and over capacity. The only way is down, the exact order however will be determined at a political level.

All companies are assuming that if they last long enough then they will be able to charge what they want (and it won't be less). However, whilst employee costs continue to fall, other costs are rising rather rapidly (what, and you thought inflation was a thing of the past). What is really killing off the airline industry within the UK particularly quickly is the devaluation of Sterling, and the lower it goes, the quicker the UK will be gutted of industry.

Others may step in as the death spiral continues, but we have now reached the canabalism stage, and these companies won't survive terribly long themselves. Aviation within the UK is a major employer, both direct and indirect, this will have serious repercussions throughout.

On the plus side we are about to see a major increase in the availability of houses due to distressed sellers. It's a shame you can't borrow any money. Just been speaking to the father-in-law who woks for a major high street bank. Guess what, they have a cap on lending for property, both domestic, and commercial, just like the old days with building societies.

[Ah-so]

BA is a pension fund with a second-rate airline attached.

It lost £400m in the year to March, and has lost a further £292m in the half year to September. While we are in difficult times economically, these figures speak for themselves. When is BA's anyone's first choice to go anywhere? Singapore Air is so much better long haul going East and most people would pick Virgin Atlantic to the US. It is probably only a competitive choice when up against the US airlines, which are pretty poor.

BA is a loss making company that overpays its staff. It needs to scale back its services, reduce pay and become more efficient.

The cabin crew, overpaid in relation to their competitors, need to get with it. This strike will be utterly counter-productive and ensure that BA loses thousands of customers for ever. In reality, I think that this strike is actually a bargaining tool and the union will try to make a deal. However, they are playing a very dangerous game and the strike will probably lead to the airline's insolvency and their own redundancy.

[Blue Peter]

On the plus side we are about to see a major increase in the availability of houses due to distressed sellers.

Though the government are throwing so much money at paying people's mortgage interest, the plus side might be quite small,

Peter.

[Goat]

I bet whatever job you do there is someone somewhere doing the same job for half as much. Does that mean you want your salary slashed, or that its fair?

I'd be staggered if there's anyone in the country doing my job for 50% of what I earn but if you want to look for yourself try finding a role in the South East for a qualified accountant with 3+ years PQE for about £20,000. Best of luck with that one.

More to the point it isn't a question of someone doing the same job for less, it's everyone else doing the same job for less.

[Goat]

In reality, I think that this strike is actually a bargaining tool and the union will try to make a deal. However, they are playing a very dangerous game and the strike will probably lead to the airline's insolvency and their own redundancy.

The theory is that this is really about internal politics at the unite union. The general secretaries are retiring next year and a victory over BA would strengthen one of the main candidates.