mhifoe Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 I agree it really annoys me when I keep hearing this so called 26k average salary. As you say correctly many people are well below this. I know from my own salary and it’s certainly not even half of that. Its yet again people trying to justify the inflation in house prices as affordable. They are grossly unaffordable. Indeed. When trying to justify high house prices, it is best to consider a high earning couple purchasing a run-down flat in a council estate in the north of England. People who suggest this have obviously never been to a shop, or seen a factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonsfedup Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 Average couple, each earning the average wage(GBP26K) - joint salary of GBP52K. Three and a half times joint income brings us to GBP182K. I'm not suggesting this is ideal, Eric, but this is one of the reasons why the market hasn't tanked. The reason the market hasn’t tanked is because of the rampant lie to buy and lets do anything we can to buy a roof over ours heads mentality. It’s simply not true there is no average 26k salary as much as the propaganda machine would wish you to believe. The first rumblings of creeping interest rates are coming and the chickens will come home to roost soon enough. Don't buy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurejon Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 I would say 26k is average for outside of London, 35k inside. The worlds economics are changing, rates are on the way up, the UK will have to follow suit miracle or not as inward investment relates directly to the rates and returns on offer. If we are three points below the rest of the world then we are a bad place to place money, and with the wages spiral in the public sectors, and ever increasing public borrowing robbing peter to pay paul we are going to be heading only one way, and along with that will come the house prices. Rates are going up, thats not something made up, its a clear cut case now. In the wider world, we are now swimming against the tide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Europa Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 Indeed. When trying to justify high house prices, it is best to consider a high earning couple purchasing a run-down flat in a council estate in the north of England. People who suggest this have obviously never been to a shop, or seen a factory. Really? A high earning couple (let's modestly assume 30K each) buying a run-down council flat in the North of England? The property would cost little more than their annual combined salary. Your example is grossly misleading. And why is an average wage of 26K so hard to believe? Factory workers are not, and have never been, average. Jon: With respect, why should somebody earning less than half the national average wage be able to buy an average house? I can't think of a time when that was possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhifoe Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 And why is an average wage of 26K so hard to believe? Factory workers are not, and have never been, average. What do you consider an average job then, High court judge? Diversity co-ordinator? A visit to National Statistics Online gives the following figures: Median full time male earnings: £24500 Median full time female earnings: £19350 Note that until recently, a couple earning 20k would easily be able to buy a small terraced house outside the south east. I live in the south west and would require a household income of about £45k to afford a 2 bed terraced house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Europa Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 What do you consider an average job then, High court judge? Diversity co-ordinator? A visit to National Statistics Online gives the following figures: Median full time male earnings: £24500 Median full time female earnings: £19350 Note that until recently, a couple earning 20k would easily be able to buy a small terraced house outside the south east. I live in the south west and would require a household income of about £45k to afford a 2 bed terraced house. Thanks for digging out those figures, although they show that the 2 bed terraced house in your area is perfectly obtainable for Mr and Mrs Median-Wage. Incidentally, do you really consider factory workers to be average? What on Earth do you consider to be below-average? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhifoe Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 Thanks for digging out those figures, although they show that the 2 bed terraced house in your area is perfectly obtainable for Mr and Mrs Median-Wage. Incidentally, do you really consider factory workers to be average? What on Earth do you consider to be below-average? Indeed the cheapest house you can buy is affordable by two people on median wage, but what about the 50% of people who earn less? If you rely on two good incomes to buy a crap house, what happens when you have children? A good factory job (i.e A well know car plant near me) pays about £20k. A typical example of a below average job is a supermarket worker, most of whom earn about £6ph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTBvish Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 (edited) Really? A high earning couple (let's modestly assume 30K each) buying a run-down council flat in the North of England? The property would cost little more than their annual combined salary. Your example is grossly misleading. And why is an average wage of 26K so hard to believe? Factory workers are not, and have never been, average. Jon: With respect, why should somebody earning less than half the national average wage be able to buy an average house? I can't think of a time when that was possible. Really? I can.. Early 90's 3 Bed Terrace. About 35K. Mum & Dad combined salary = 16K. Both factory workers. Now: Same 3 Bed terraced is 'worth' about 100K. Current combined salary of a couple working in same factories would be about £25K. I know because my Mum only just retired after working the same job for close to 30 years. Nice Edited May 19, 2006 by FTBvish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric pebble Posted May 19, 2006 Author Share Posted May 19, 2006 The reason the market hasn’t tanked is because of the rampant lie to buy and lets do anything we can to buy a roof over ours heads mentality. It’s simply not true there is no average 26k salary as much as the propaganda machine would wish you to believe. The first rumblings of creeping interest rates are coming and the chickens will come home to roost soon enough. Don't buy! EXACTLY!!!!!! - Mortgage customers 'urged to lie' http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3222053.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric pebble Posted May 20, 2006 Author Share Posted May 20, 2006 EXACTLY!!!!!! - Mortgage customers 'urged to lie' http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3222053.stm and that's just the tip of the iceberg that has been floating down towards the shipping lanes for months - and - are looming up Titanic style as we speak..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric pebble Posted May 24, 2006 Author Share Posted May 24, 2006 (edited) Really? I can.. Early 90's 3 Bed Terrace. About 35K. Mum & Dad combined salary = 16K. Both factory workers. Now: Same 3 Bed terraced is 'worth' about 100K. Current combined salary of a couple working in same factories would be about £25K. I know because my Mum only just retired after working the same job for close to 30 years. Nice Yes -- most NORMAL people earn up to and not much more than £25k. This is tops. So it stands to reason - the world's biggest ever pyramid selling scam - the uk "housing market" is going to cause so much misery when it deflates/bursts [as it is right now, make no mistake]......: We will look back in amazement at how it came to this.... Edited May 24, 2006 by eric pebble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Europa Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Yes -- most NORMAL people earn up to and not much more than £25k. This is tops. So it stands to reason - the world's biggest ever pyramid selling scam - the uk "housing market" is going to cause so much misery when it deflates/bursts [as it is right now, make no mistake]......: We will look back in amazement at how it came to this.... Replying to your own posts is bad form, Eric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric pebble Posted May 24, 2006 Author Share Posted May 24, 2006 Replying to your own posts is bad form, Eric. Er......... I don't think I did - may be mistaken -- but the whole view thing has changed - I don't get a rolling view anymore - anyone know how I can get this back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doomwatch Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Hello eric. It would appear that I have rattled your cage! eric please correct me if I am wrong but are you a would be FTBer who would purchase if you considered the price was reasonable? If this is the case it is rather like my sitution. I would love to have a Lear aircraft but I can`t because they are too expensive for me. I do not gripe that they are too expensive and must come down so the man in the street can purchase rather do I reflect that that is the way of the world. It is the way markets work. I am not jealous of those who do have Lear jets. Similarly may I suggest that if you are unable to purchase property just accept that fact and move on. You may be happier in the long run. regards horace Horace your analogy is total nonsense. Lear Jet prices do not cause the social problems that have come with this latest bubble. A whole generation is currently suffering from this, and this is obvious to see, to those of us with a conscience. Unfortunalety for you the "market" is a mean reverting one, and you are at the wrong side of the mean, so see how that "works". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbrent Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 I think you are forgetting Horace that markets can be very savage beast indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbital Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 (edited) Just bought my first house, cple months ago, been loving it. 3 bed semi in South London. Large garden. Must have cost the Earth? Nope circa £200k. Must be in bad nick? Nope done up nicely by the previous owners, central heating, dbl glazing, new kitchen (inc all white goods), new bathroom, recently decorated throughout. Nasty area? Nope good local schools, services, 20min connection to London, station 10 min walk away. Small? Nope, all rooms are large dbls, kitchen dinner, living room, large bathroom, hallway, landing, etc... It's just that there are actually affordable nice family houses out there, even in London. But for how long? With the population only growing and new houses mostly just tiny flats (ive lived in 2 new build flats - never again!) personally I think its a big gamble to wait! At least I know that my kids will grow up with a garden . At 25% of my earnings, I dont think my mortgage is bad value at all... Id agree that many properties are overpriced, 2 bed new build flats in my area go for the same price as my house - now that's weird!! But they are being sold! And one I rented was recently resold for £220k :S! Tiny little place it was, on 2nd floor! Some people have more money than sense ! Anyways, GL to all Edited May 25, 2006 by Orbital Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashIsUnderWay Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 A W O O G A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric pebble Posted May 26, 2006 Author Share Posted May 26, 2006 Just bought my first house, cple months ago, been loving it. 3 bed semi in South London. Large garden. Must have cost the Earth? Nope circa £200k. Must be in bad nick? Nope done up nicely by the previous owners, central heating, dbl glazing, new kitchen (inc all white goods), new bathroom, recently decorated throughout. Nasty area? Nope good local schools, services, 20min connection to London, station 10 min walk away. Small? Nope, all rooms are large dbls, kitchen dinner, living room, large bathroom, hallway, landing, etc... It's just that there are actually affordable nice family houses out there, even in London. But for how long? With the population only growing and new houses mostly just tiny flats (ive lived in 2 new build flats - never again!) personally I think its a big gamble to wait! At least I know that my kids will grow up with a garden . At 25% of my earnings, I dont think my mortgage is bad value at all... Id agree that many properties are overpriced, 2 bed new build flats in my area go for the same price as my house - now that's weird!! But they are being sold! And one I rented was recently resold for £220k :S! Tiny little place it was, on 2nd floor! Some people have more money than sense ! Anyways, GL to all It's like the last party before the ship sinks........... a last flourish prior to certain death.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric pebble Posted July 1, 2008 Author Share Posted July 1, 2008 (edited) It's like the last party before the ship sinks........... a last flourish prior to certain death.... Hey Hey Hey!!! That was a thread I started way back in July 2005!!! And it ended in May 2006! Edited July 2, 2008 by eric pebble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric pebble Posted August 1, 2009 Author Share Posted August 1, 2009 Hey Hey Hey!!! That was a thread I started way back in July 2005!!! And it ended in May 2006! It's now AUGUST 2009!!! Re-reading this thread from 4 years ago onwards is fascinating.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 It's now AUGUST 2009!!!Re-reading this thread from 4 years ago onwards is fascinating.... Eric, I just read your initial post on this thread for the first time. I honestly though you`d written it a week or two ago. It nearly bought a tear to my eye ! Anyway, it`s brilliant advice for today`s potential FTB`er, but will they take it ? The ramping and bulls**t is stronger than ever at the moment. If there is any sanity or logic left in the UK, very few, if any potential FTB`ers would "climb on the ladder" right now. The ladder is steep, the ladder is very rickety and standing on dodgy ground. Yet, the BBC and the media are telling them "go on, climb on, it`ll be OK". I really despair for our country. Why don`t people just stand their ground and show the media/government/banks who really does pay their wages ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDavola Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 That topic makes rather depressing reading - it's now the best part of half a decade on from the original post, and houses are still not affordable. I wonder when you posted that in 2005 did you think things would still be overpriced in 2009? Makes you wonder if they will be affordable in another 4 years time? Or will the crooks find some way to keep this game going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric pebble Posted August 1, 2009 Author Share Posted August 1, 2009 (edited) That topic makes rather depressing reading - it's now the best part of half a decade on from the original post, and houses are still not affordable.I wonder when you posted that in 2005 did you think things would still be overpriced in 2009? Makes you wonder if they will be affordable in another 4 years time? Or will the crooks find some way to keep this game going. I have to go now -- but yes - I agree - it is all very depressing. I was sure all those years ago - and I am still sure -- that if ONLY FTBs were to somehow stick together as a group and stick 2 fingers up - and say - all together - F**K off - I WILL NOT pay that stupid price..... But of course -- the VIs see to it - via MASSIVE 24 hour Ramping Campaigns - that they suck people in..... It is REALLY depressing..... But in the end -- I don't think the UK is going to recover/get back on its feet unless and until the whole property scam is finally done away with..... We will forever remain an unhappy country unless things change imho... Will digress later today/tomorrow -- but I have to go now..... Edit: Who'd have thought the World Financial System/Banks would be brought to their knees when I first posted back in 2004, eh?!? Edited August 1, 2009 by eric pebble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDavola Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 (edited) I was sure all those years ago - and I am still sure -- that if ONLY FTBs were to somehow stick together as a group and stick 2 fingers up - and say - all together - F**K off - I WILL NOT pay that stupid price..... The problem is that the average FTB is an idiot, and only thinks in the short term. I know of someone who bought their first house a month or so ago. They couldn't get a mortgage because their wages weren't high enough. They work for a company that helps people find mortgages or something like that. So what did this person do? They got their boss (of a company who provides financial advice - who was only too happy to oblige), to write them a fake paycheque, and they got the mortgage by using the fake paycheque. Liar loans are alive and well in 2009. Edited August 1, 2009 by JoeDavola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomadd Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 (edited) Just bought my first house, cple months ago, been loving it. 3 bed semi in South London. Large garden. Must have cost the Earth? Nope circa �200k. Must be in bad nick? Nope done up nicely by the previous owners, central heating, dbl glazing, new kitchen (inc all white goods), new bathroom, recently decorated throughout. Nasty area? Nope good local schools, services, 20min connection to London, station 10 min walk away. Small? Nope, all rooms are large dbls, kitchen dinner, living room, large bathroom, hallway, landing, etc...It's just that there are actually affordable nice family houses out there, even in London. But for how long? With the population only growing and new houses mostly just tiny flats (ive lived in 2 new build flats - never again!) personally I think its a big gamble to wait! At least I know that my kids will grow up with a garden . At 25% of my earnings, I dont think my mortgage is bad value at all... Id agree that many properties are overpriced, 2 bed new build flats in my area go for the same price as my house - now that's weird!! But they are being sold! And one I rented was recently resold for �220k :S! Tiny little place it was, on 2nd floor! Some people have more money than sense ! Anyways, GL to all I'm in North London, and a tiny two bed terrace is £300k. A 3 bed semi starts at £350k. A nice 3 bed semi starts at £400k. Here's my RM search for any type of house for £200k: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sa...p;auction=false That's one hit! And it's a one bed flat deliberately mislabeled by the EA as a "house". Nomadd Edited August 1, 2009 by Nomadd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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