Are We In Britain Hard Hearted?

[Eric Blair]

Sorry, I disagree with this completely.

The Japanese military was cruel and evil especially by our standards, though understood in the context of 'bushido' I understand the reasons for them behaving that way. This was an old military code, where there was no surrender and shame was dealt with through seppuku. Many atrocities were committed, but often on an individual level, eg a company commander or soldier beheading prisoners. A collection of many evils performed by many individuals, but often at their own instigation based on a medieval code. But if they failed they expected to be dealt with by the same standard.

The Nazi's on the other hand were the very essence of evil. This was the systematisation of evil. They planned, kept accounts and built facilities to murder people. They organised round ups and put people on trains to go to their death - effectively an incorporation and industrialisation of evil.

No one even thinks about the war when talking with Germans and yes we should let it go in personal dealings, but at the same time never forget. However, I do always feel there is a certain double standard in the UK when discussing Japan - perhaps because they were more different, Asian and more alien to us than the Germans and perhaps because so much is tied up with loss of our Empire.

where do you get your information re. the evil nazis? UK TV History (aka the hitler channel)? or shilndler's list? or some Court Historian?

i think it's a bit daft to pontificate about the evilness of our historical enemies since such history is bound to be so perfused with propaganda that it's almost impossible to know anything objective about it.

that "winners write the history" is a truism but furthermore, it's a fact that the societies of the losing nations of WWII were actively re-formed (eg. de-nazified) such that alternative narratives were eliminated.

my starting position now, having experienced media demonization of "official enamies" first-hand during the yugoslav and iraq imperial adventures is to assume that our opponents are at least morally equivalent to ourselves, until proven otherwise.

[Guest anorthosite]

Bl00dy Hell!!

I can't believe it. Someone actually calling Hitler a brave leader.

I must admit, I didn't think HPC could fall that much further either.

Sometimes it makes the Flat Earth Society's forum seem sensible...

[Guest AuntJess]

Bl00dy Hell!!

I can't believe it. Someone actually calling Hitler a brave leader.

Perhaps Tony you need to go to the Blood and Honour website or C18.

I think HPC has picked up another troll, or maybe it is letting-out day at the lunatic asylum.

[Guest anorthosite]

Are you telling me it's not?

Pay a visit, you'll be surprised just how insane it gets there!

For example, there is no gravity, just an invisible force accelerating the earth.

The sun and the moon are the same size and the same distance away.

Space flight is impossible.

NASA was set up to perpetuate a conspiracy

Antarctica is actually a wall of ice that is guarded to stop people falling over the edge.

Light bends so things disappear over the horizon. They have no evidence for this "bendy light", but as the earth is flat they claim this is the only explanation.

I'm not kidding, if you want a giggle, go check it out. I visit it when my self-loathing is especially high:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?www

[Guest Parry aka GOD]

Pay a visit, you'll be surprised just how insane it gets there!

For example, there is no gravity, just an invisible force accelerating the earth.

The sun and the moon are the same size and the same distance away.

Space flight is impossible.

NASA was set up to perpetuate a conspiracy

Antarctica is actually a wall of ice that is guarded to stop people falling over the edge.

Light bends so things disappear over the horizon. They have no evidence for this "bendy light", but as the earth is flat they claim this is the only explanation.

I'm not kidding, if you want a giggle, go check it out. I visit it when my self-loathing is especially high:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?www

Fookin' hell!

Their awesome in their true, devoted, mentalism.

Come on. We have to join.

[Guest anorthosite]

Fookin' hell!

Their awesome in their true, devoted, mentalism.

Come on. We have to join.

I already have. As Anorthosite.

[Guest Parry aka GOD]

I already have. As Anorthosite.

Look out for 'Gustav'

Good mentalist, pseudo-scientist name?

[muggle]

Man's greatest folly

[Guest anorthosite]

Look out for 'Gustav'

Good mentalist, pseudo-scientist name?

I shall do!

[1929crash]

WTF?

Do we remember these attrocities?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

(To name but two.)

So it was the women and children of Hiroshima who carried out those atrocities?

[hayder]

It is often forgotten that the Jews declared war on Germany in 1933:

http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptori...es/jdecwar.html

Don't you think Germany had every right to remove an enemy from within that was determined to destroy the country?

was there a country called "the jews" to declare war on someone, and the german military fought "the jews" combatants in battle????

Did "Yosi the musician" declare war on Germany? Is that why he was liquidated?

hint.

a persons' religious "origin" does not equate him to be member of a "political/national organisation"! I do hope that one of of clarifying this point is to reverse it against yourself.

1-What "religion" does your name "indicate" that you're from (this is not actually a question of what you believe, just what "religion" is your name usually associated with.

2-Find the worst example of criminals/societies/political groups who hail from that religious group.

3-that is you. and you deserve to die for it.

[Goat]

That argument might make sense if the bombing actually worked: despite mass bombing, German war production _increased_ up to the point where the allied troops began capturing their resources and factories; similarly, the blockade of Japan by the allied navies had more impact on Japanese production than mass bombing.

I could live with the immorality of mass-murder from the air if it had actually contributed significantly to accelerating the end of the war, but all the post-war evidence seems to show that it was extremely ineffective. While the nukes made the Japanese more eager to surrender than they otherwise would have been, from what I remember the eventual surrender terms weren't much different to those offered by the Japanese government before the attacks.

The bombing of the two japanese did indisputably end the war; whether it was strictly necessary is another question but had the US attempted an invasion the death toll would almost certainly have been in the millions.

The test for german war production is not whether it increased but whether it increased more slowly than would otherwise have been the case.

[talksalot81]

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, the OP seems to be very hardline in his wording - perhaps he/she would prefer to be having this conversation in Japanese?

Murder? Why don't you look to some much less debatable instances?! When are we going to remember the Jews? When are we going to remember those caught up in the slavic problems? What day do we remember those lost in the NI troubles?

So either ride the horse properly or get down before you get hurt.

[Garry AKA Pod]

Why on earth am I getting an advert for a dating site called singlemuslim.com ?

Does google imply links between Adolf, Enola Gay and dip sh*t trolls with Islam?

[1929crash]

Why on earth am I getting an advert for a dating site called singlemuslim.com ?

It's that fetching beard of yours.

[Guest anorthosite]

Man's greatest folly

Frankie Goes to Hollywood were bad, but "man's greatest folly" is a bit harsh, especially in a world with Bronski Beat.

[Guest anorthosite]

Why on earth am I getting an advert for a dating site called singlemuslim.com ?

Does google imply links between Adolf, Enola Gay and dip sh*t trolls with Islam?

Oooh, can you send me the link? All I get is the Thai women from Mr Parry's postings and, quite frankly, I haven't had much success with them.

It'll be the gay bears soon at this rate for me...

[MarkG]

The bombing of the two japanese did indisputably end the war; whether it was strictly necessary is another question but had the US attempted an invasion the death toll would almost certainly have been in the millions.

All the allies had to do was maintain the blockade and wait for the Japanese government to concede defeat; there would have been no need for an invasion. I can understand why they did what they did in the circumstances, because everyone was tired of war at that point and didn't want to sit around for months waiting for lack of supplies to do their job for them, but morally the position is still indefensible... particularly given that they could have accepted Japanese surrender negotiations rather than rebutting them. The only real sticking point for the Japanese was the demand for 'unconditional' surrender, and the final surrender post-Hiroshima gave them pretty much all that they wanted in any case.

Mass bombing was used because the US government had spent vast amounts of money developing sophisticated bombers and had to use them for something; not because it was effective. A single submarine probably had as much impact on the Japanese economy as a squadron of B-29s.

The test for german war production is not whether it increased but whether it increased more slowly than would otherwise have been the case.

It increased as rapidly as was required to support the German armed forces; there was no point producing any more than that. The German army was never lacking in weapons or equipment, to the extent that by 1945 they were shipping new tanks to the front where they were immediately destroyed to keep them out of allied hands because they were unable to operate due to lack of fuel. The one thing the allied bombing campaign could have done to have a dramatic impact on the German war effort was not to bomb cities, but to knock out the fuel refineries, which they weren't doing until late in the war.

[Guest Parry aka GOD]

Oooh, can you send me the link? All I get is the Thai women from Mr Parry's postings and, quite frankly, I haven't had much success with them.

It'll be the gay bears soon at this rate for me...

I'm surprised, there's some nasty pussy in those ads.

[roman holiday]

The soldiers did, but why kill all those women, children and old folk? You are implying that innocence is no defence, that innocents should be slaughtered because they are related to men who kill. On this basis, if I were an Afghan who lost relatives in a NATO airstrike, would I be justified in attacking civilian targets in the West?

Total War and a huge mistake by the west imo.

[roman holiday]

The Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs were really more for Soviet consumption than Japanese. Although the Japanese had already rejected the Potsdam ultimatum and had sustained 110,000 casualties in the fanatical defence of Okinawa when it was clear the war was lost. So on balance, nuking those two cities probably killed much less people than a conventional invasion and occupation.There was also the matter of the standing order to execute all 100,000 allied PoWs in the event of an invasion of the Japanese mainland.

Benefit cost analysis?

[roman holiday]

of course, the purpose of war propaganda is to justify expressions such as "filthy jap"

some perspective on the "rape of nanking":

http://www.amazon.com/Rape-Nanking-Forgott...erBy=addOneStar

The other thing to keep in mind is that the conditions of war soon brutalize all participants at the "coal face" whatever side they are fighting for. As for Nanking, any semblance of military order completely broke down and soldiers went quite literally mad..... civilization is a thin veneer and the Japanese had no monopoly on barbaric behaviour in the war.

[Guest Parry aka GOD]

Oooh, can you send me the link? All I get is the Thai women from Mr Parry's postings and, quite frankly, I haven't had much success with them.

It'll be the gay bears soon at this rate for me...

Sure will big boy!

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

Frankie Goes to Hollywood were bad, but "man's greatest folly" is a bit harsh, especially in a world with Bronski Beat.

Brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!

I was trying to think of a response on similar lines, but dragging up Bronski Beat really made it.

[Guest Parry aka GOD]

Not sure that's what I stated. I think I made the point that you'd rather remember the dead from a couple of nukes rather than other attrocities (otherwise you wouldn't have posted such sh1te).

Anyway, as you seem to have a ban the bomb leaning stance as indicated by your opening post, I'm glad to say the western world ignored nutters like you and have thousands stock piled, just in case!

It's how I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb.