Flu' I've Cracked It!

[profitofdoom]

Well quelle surprise.A huge rise in flu cases coincides with the first week of the school holidays and all you need to do is make one simple 'phone call and it's load up the Victor estate and we're off to Skeggy.It would be interesting to break down the infection rates between employed and self-employed.I bet the latter are half or less.

[rollercoaster]

In your workplace can you guess who will be first to be struck down with the 5 days off? I've got a personal sweepstake running for mine!

[profitofdoom]

In your workplace can you guess who will be first to be struck down with the 5 days off? I've got a personal sweepstake running for mine!

Mrs.P is a teacher.It has just been clarified that their six months off with sick pay is cumulative.She reckons that this has had a great effect on the health of the "usual suspects" who don't want to reach the limit.

[Cherubium]

You'd presumably have to be a bit dim to do this during a genuine pandemic, because it would be a medical miracle if you got the same strain of flu twice...

[RichB]

Mrs.P is a teacher.It has just been clarified that their six months off with sick pay is cumulative.She reckons that this has had a great effect on the health of the "usual suspects" who don't want to reach the limit.

Per year?

[Ash4781]

Has anyone phoned the helpline?

[GrillsBears]

Has anyone phoned the helpline?

Is this the appropriate time to make the "all I got was crackling" joke?

[MOP]

Has anyone phoned the helpline?

Yep

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...664&st=3420

[heather5]

I'm confused - so we now all have to go online when we're ill - and then get advice from some person in a call-centre and then our flue-buddies have to go an get our drugs - bring them back to us - and leave us?

Hang on - my Mum doesn't have an internet connection - she's 70+ - so she's at risk because of her age - and the phone lines are so busy that because she lives on her own and is feeling so ill - she can't keep holding on-line for her GP that she paid for via her NI stamps for the 40 years she worked in addition to bringing up 5 kids to help the economy.

She needs a flu buddy - she does finally get through the phone line as they don't want her in the surgery and the receptionist says that she's not a risk - so won't send the doctor round - although she's 70+ and that her flu buddy needs to get her presciption - but they can't give it her by phone - and so her flu buddy must collect during surgery hours (her only son is working and has to travel 120 miles per day for his job - and rarely gets home before 8pm and leaves at 6am).

So she has no flu buddy.

How is this right?

Given society as it is now - most of us are single and live alone - the govt have know about this for years - and so we have no flu budies.

I don't have a flu buddy.

So what am I to do?

The GP won't come out to me - I have no flu buddy?

But I've paid all my NI for 40 years - for this privilege - to be told becuase I have no flu buddy - I cannot be saved.

Nice.

Isn't that one of the Labour govt's think-tanks on health that came up with this scheme.

I think the govt are deliberately targeting single people - so that they don't have to pay our pensions because we'll die by the flu epedemic - because we don't have flu-buddies.

Perhaps Gordon thinks that if we are so sad and lonely that we don't need to be saved.

Sadly it people like me - who put all into our careers and jobs - and sacrifice our family life - who kept his economy going but now discover that we count for so little because we are single and just live for our jobs - that even the govt don't care.

Nice that.

[MOP]

I'm confused - so we now all have to go online when we're ill - and then get advice from some person in a call-centre and then our flue-buddies have to go an get our drugs - bring them back to us - and leave us?

Hang on - my Mum doesn't have an internet connection - she's 70+ - so she's at risk because of her age - and the phone lines are so busy that because she lives on her own and is feeling so ill - she can't keep holding on-line for her GP that she paid for via her NI stamps for the 40 years she worked in addition to bringing up 5 kids to help the economy.

She needs a flu buddy - she does finally get through the phone line as they don't want her in the surgery and the receptionist says that she's not a risk - so won't send the doctor round - although she's 70+ and that her flu buddy needs to get her presciption - but they can't give it her by phone - and so her flu buddy must collect during surgery hours (her only son is working and has to travel 120 miles per day for his job - and rarely gets home before 8pm and leaves at 6am).

So she has no flu buddy.

How is this right?

Given society as it is now - most of us are single and live alone - the govt have know about this for years - and so we have no flu budies.

I don't have a flu buddy.

So what am I to do?

The GP won't come out to me - I have no flu buddy?

But I've paid all my NI for 40 years - for this privilege - to be told becuase I have no flu buddy - I cannot be saved.

Nice.

Isn't that one of the Labour govt's think-tanks on health that came up with this scheme.

I think the govt are deliberately targeting single people - so that they don't have to pay our pensions because we'll die by the flu epedemic - because we don't have flu-buddies.

Perhaps Gordon thinks that if we are so sad and lonely that we don't need to be saved.

Sadly it people like me - who put all into our careers and jobs - and sacrifice our family life - who kept his economy going but now discover that we count for so little because we are single and just live for our jobs - that even the govt don't care.

Nice that.

You would need to explain that to them. They may be able to post it out or drop it off at your house some other way.

[RufflesTheGuineaPig]

But I've paid all my NI for 40 years - for this privilege - to be told becuase I have no flu buddy - I cannot be saved.

Her NI insurance payments were for services she was receiving then, not for services in the future.

She got what she paid for, and much MUCH more.

I having nothing against old people but despise this "I've paid for it so I'm entitled to it" attitude. They didn't pay for the services they received, nevermind future services. They are leaving a GARGANTUAN multi-trillion pound debt to their children and grandchildren for services THEY received.

Old people need help during the swine flu crisis, but they need to stop pretending thhey are entitled to stuff when they arn't. They are lucky not to be asked to pay the debt they are leaving to their children before receiving treatment.

[huw]

Her NI insurance payments were for services she was receiving then, not for services in the future.

She got what she paid for, and much MUCH more.

I having nothing against old people but despise this "I've paid for it so I'm entitled to it" attitude. They didn't pay for the services they received, nevermind future services. They are leaving a GARGANTUAN multi-trillion pound debt to their children and grandchildren for services THEY received.

Old people need help during the swine flu crisis, but they need to stop pretending thhey are entitled to stuff when they arn't. They are lucky not to be asked to pay the debt they are leaving to their children before receiving treatment.

WHO is leaving the debt?

Things looked reasonably okay on Granny's watch

[RufflesTheGuineaPig]

WHO is leaving the debt?

Things looked reasonably okay on Granny's watch

The public sector debt numbrs are nothing compared to the unfunded civil service and state pension liabilities that have been slowly buiding up since the 1950s. Just a blip or the huge slowly rising line.

[Johnny Storm]

So she has no flu buddy.

How is this right?

Given society as it is now - most of us are single and live alone - the govt have know about this for years - and so we have no flu budies.

I don't have a flu buddy.

So what am I to do?

If you are really bothered, fill in the website, get your number and go and collect your Tamiflu yourself, ready for when you need it.

[huw]

The public sector debt numbrs are nothing compared to the unfunded civil service and state pension liabilities that have been slowly buiding up since the 1950s. Just a blip or the huge slowly rising line.

Have the post-boomer generations tackled that problem, then, or are they [we] still passing the buck to the future?

IMO the victims of this particular scam are those to whom the promises were [are still being] made -- they will turn out to have accepted a lifetime of low pay in return for an illusory future pension entitlement. [edit: not the upper echelons, I expect they will be taken care of].

[bkkandrew]

If you are really bothered, fill in the website, get your number and go and collect your Tamiflu yourself, ready for when you need it.

Just done the very same, ready for when I fly back to Bangkok next week.

[Hip to be bear]

Is this the appropriate time to make the "all I got was crackling" joke?

Brilliant GB. I can't believe no one else has toasted your comedy genius!

I was going to call and find out if scratching was a symptom....

[RufflesTheGuineaPig]

Have the post-boomer generations tackled that problem, then, or are they [we] still passing the buck to the future?

Kind of.... national insurance doesn't get you a pension if you are under about 40 I think it is now. Rules were changed a while back.

IMO the victims of this particular scam are those to whom the promises were [are still being] made -- they will turn out to have accepted a lifetime of low pay in return for an illusory future pension entitlement. [edit: not the upper echelons, I expect they will be taken care of].

They arn't really victims per-se. They promised something to *themselves* without making any provision to provide it.

Simply:

The government is funded by the taxpayer, therefore when considering liability, taxpayer=government

The politicians (government) promised the taxpayer (voters) low taxes and a fat pension if they voted for them.

The Taxpayer (voters) took the bribe and The politicians (government) gave them the low taxes they promised.

Now "The Taxpayer" (voters) want the pension "The politicians" (government) promised them.

The catch is that The Taxpayer (their grandchildren) will have to pay for it.

To make things morally right, instead of the government "The taxpayer" being held liable, the individual politicians should be held liable.... but they won't because they don't have enough money to even start paying out what they offered, so the "government" i.e. the taxPayers will be told it should pay what the "government" i.e. politician promised.

It's the equivilent of France promising Germany that Holland will pay it $1 trillion in 5 years time if Germany gives France lots of free sausages. In 5 years time, when Germany goes to collect it's $1 trillion, one way or another, there is going to be a fight.

The boomers etc chose to have low taxes and didn't bother looking into how the promises would be kept as it wouldn't be up to them to keep them. The catch is taxes weren't just low because the state wasn't building up a sovereign welfare fund for the state pension, civil servants were also being paid less as they were promised pensions (which were unfunded).

If the boomers and their parents etc had had to pay the civil servants, doctors, nurses, policemen, bin men et al enough for them to save for an equivilent PRIVATE pension taxes would have had to be MUCH higher.

Put simply, the entire £5 trillion state/civil service pension black hole is merely defered costs for the provision of service delivered to the boomers and their parents.

Repayents on those defered costs will shortly take up the entire tax income of the United Kingdom.

This is the elephant in the room that people (boomers and politicians) simple wont talk about, and which boomers will claim does not exist.... they will simply tell you they paid tax and are entitled to what they promised themselves. They will get very aggressive about this, and will deride, insult and even threaten those that suggest they are not entitled to what they have promised themselves, because if they admit they arn't entitled to it, their retirement which until recently looked rosey, turns into 20 years of poverty.

[huw]

Kind of.... national insurance doesn't get you a pension if you are under about 40 I think it is now. Rules were changed a while back.

I knew there were changes but I wasn't aware it had been scrapped for under-40s, do you have a link? It's a seismic change if true, the beginning of the tearing-up of the post-war social settlement.

Are we still promising new teachers, nurses etc. that they will receive a public-sector pension (no idea, really, but I suspect so).

They arn't really victims per-se. They promised something to *themselves* without making any provision to provide it.

They were promised something by wider society, in return for providing cheap services to that society. Their contracts of employment will not have been self-signed.

Simply:

The government is funded by the taxpayer, therefore when considering liability, taxpayer=government

The politicians (government) promised the taxpayer (voters) low taxes and a fat pension if they voted for them.

The Taxpayer (voters) took the bribe and The politicians (government) gave them the low taxes they promised.

Now "The Taxpayer" (voters) want the pension "The politicians" (government) promised them.

The catch is that The Taxpayer (their grandchildren) will have to pay for it.

All very well except that "The Taxpayers" don't all qualify for fat pensions. They've used the fat pensions to con some of their number to work for lower tax-funded wages than would otherwise have been needed. As long as this continues, every adult in the country is complicit ... if you blame the boomers, you must logically blame everybody else too (and you're probably ascribing more power to individual voters than they actually have).

The same goes for other promises that we continue to make. People build up pension credits, I believe, simply by signing on. Who's supposed to pay for these?

To make things morally right, instead of the government "The taxpayer" being held liable, the individual politicians should be held liable.... but they won't because they don't have enough money to even start paying out what they offered, so the "government" i.e. the taxPayers will be told it should pay what the "government" i.e. politician promised.

The taxpayers collectively have got more than they've paid for, they should morally be on the hook.

It's the equivilent of France promising Germany that Holland will pay it $1 trillion in 5 years time if Germany gives France lots of free sausages. In 5 years time, when Germany goes to collect it's $1 trillion, one way or another, there is going to be a fight.

Except that Holland gets no benefit from France's sausage consumption. In theory, debt taken on leaves the country in better shape for future generations. Recently this has clearly not worked, but previous debt-spikes (e.g. Napoleonic War and WW2, if you look at the debt record) were more morally justified IMO; similarly if one generation borrows to build infrastructure then the next generation inherits the benefit as well as the debt.

The boomers etc chose to have low taxes and didn't bother looking into how the promises would be kept as it wouldn't be up to them to keep them. The catch is taxes weren't just low because the state wasn't building up a sovereign welfare fund for the state pension, civil servants were also being paid less as they were promised pensions (which were unfunded).

They had the excuse of believing that economic growth would reduce the overall burden of the promises; what excuse do we have?

If the boomers and their parents etc had had to pay the civil servants, doctors, nurses, policemen, bin men et al enough for them to save for an equivilent PRIVATE pension taxes would have had to be MUCH higher.

Like the taxpayer is paying his/her way today?

This is the elephant in the room that people (boomers and politicians) simple wont talk about, and which boomers will claim does not exist.... they will simply tell you they paid tax and are entitled to what they promised themselves. They will get very aggressive about this, and will deride, insult and even threaten those that suggest they are not entitled to what they have promised themselves, because if they admit they arn't entitled to it, their retirement which until recently looked rosey, turns into 20 years of poverty.

They will be disappointed.

They won't be the only ones

[Guest absolutezero]

I knew there were changes but I wasn't aware it had been scrapped for under-40s, do you have a link? It's a seismic change if true, the beginning of the tearing-up of the post-war social settlement.

I suspect he's talking out of an orifice other than his mouth. X years of NI still gets you a basic state pension.

Are we still promising new teachers, nurses etc. that they will receive a public-sector pension (no idea, really, but I suspect so).

Yes. Except instead of it being "final salary" based on 1/80th of your salary each year of service payable at 60 it's now "career average salary" based on 60ths of your salary payable at 65.

Very sneaky because statistically teachers retiring at 65 die by 68. Teachers retiring at 60 live to be well into their late 70s.

All very well except that "The Taxpayers" don't all qualify for fat pensions. They've used the fat pensions to con some of their number to work for lower tax-funded wages than would otherwise have been needed. As long as this continues, every adult in the country is complicit ... if you blame the boomers, you must logically blame everybody else too (and you're probably ascribing more power to individual voters than they actually have).

I wish we could clear up the "fat" or "gold plated" pensions.

They're not fantastic and are typically a shade over £10,000 p.a. if you have 35 years' service.

The same goes for other promises that we continue to make. People build up pension credits, I believe, simply by signing on. Who's supposed to pay for these?

Taxpayers at the time these benefits become due.

[mitchbux]

You would need to explain that to them. They may be able to post it out or drop it off at your house some other way.

Lloyds Pharmacy vans have been dropping off in our area.

I'm without flu buddy for another couple of days because, you guessed it, my 'buddy' has 'swine flu'.

[SaintJay]

had a theory about how this might be spreading so quickly....(awaits flaming)

chip and pin payment machines

wipe nose - pay - wipe nose again

[Right Here Now]

You'd presumably have to be a bit dim to do this during a genuine pandemic, because it would be a medical miracle if you got the same strain of flu twice...

Unfortunately not true. a friends partner is down with her second dose within 6 weeks. First time was bad but this second one is a bit worse.

[Guest anorthosite]

There's a few people off in the organisation I work for. According to HR its "the usual suspects" so far.

[profitofdoom]

Unfortunately not true. a friends partner is down with her second dose within 6 weeks. First time was bad but this second one is a bit worse.

First time: Long weekend in Prague

Second Time : Fortnight in Torremelinos