Everyone Will Get Vaccine Against Swine Flu

[Peter Hun]

I'll take my chance thanks. The ones who have sadly died so far, were getting medical help in a pre meltdown NHS, and they still died.

Yes, you are far better without medical care when you are sick, thanks for that stunning insight.

Having any treatment at the NHS increases your chances of dieing.

I was talking to my father over the weekend, and he certaintly isnt a conspiracy theorist. Career policeman, thinks David Ike should be in a mental asylum.

Said he will definitely not be having the immunisation.

Another genius. Can you get him to put that in writing and could you both also find a way of opting out of the NHS so other more deserving people can be treated?

[Johnny Storm]

Another genius. Can you get him to put that in writing and could you both also find a way of opting out of the NHS so other more deserving people can be treated?

We already have boo, we just pay for it for people like you.

[I_Claudius]

Having any treatment at the NHS increases your chances of dieing.

do you have even the slightest idea how barking mad that sounds?

I've had my life saved twice by the NHS and just had my mother released after life saving surgery; I understand if you're trying to be 'shocking' / 'contrarian' or whatever to make a point but imo it makes you sound pretty crazy.

[Peter Hun]

We already have boo, we just pay for it for people like you.

If you want to find out what Swine flu is like without a function medical system, try Argentina. Hundreds dead out of 5000 cases.

But I suspect I Claudius is right, you are simply playing the Village Idiot.

[Johnny Storm]

do you have even the slightest idea how barking mad that sounds?

I've had my life saved twice by the NHS and just had my mother released after life saving surgery; I understand if you're trying to be 'shocking' / 'contrarian' or whatever to make a point but imo it makes you sound pretty crazy.

Well as someone who had lost 3 out of 4 grand parents, 2 of which died horribly in nhs hospital where it turned out they werent being fed. Food left out to go cold taken away. They would eat if cared for. Tablets being missed. etc I only found out a little about this years later when my Auntie told me she finally got a written "apology" as it didnt really take any blame but said that they would take on board her suggestions for improvements.

I also know someone through work who had an operation on his sinuses as he it was getting blocked every so while and they opened it up. He now has constant 24/7 pain as a nerve has been damaged and there is nothing that can be done about it.

My final grandparent, although the longest lived has MS. Which we suspect was caused by a radioactive dye injected into her when she had cancer. They cured the cancer, but she had been in a wheel chair for the last 30 years. So I have visited her a lot of times in hospital and I can frankly say its horrific.

So well done on surviving, my Gran has survived too but with horrible side effects.

Oh and my Aunt, had an enlarged thyroid and was told that in some cases this could be a sign of cancer. She had a biopsy that was inconclusive. Because she was worried about this, she went ahead with having it removed. She had ended up with a big scar across her neck that she thinks looks like someone has tried to slit her throat.

On going back for her final consulation, there is no mention of cancer and she finally has to ask. Was there any sign of cancer? The consultant says, "Cancer? What on earth made you think there could be cancer?" <looking at her as if shes crazy>

So if you really want to entrust your life into this organisation go right ahead, but dont say I didnt warn you.

[I_Claudius]

Well as someone who had lost 3 out of 4 grand parents, 2 of which died horribly in nhs hospital where it turned out they werent being fed. Food left out to go cold taken away. They would eat if cared for. Tablets being missed. etc I only found out a little about this years later when my Auntie told me she finally got a written "apology" as it didnt really take any blame but said that they would take on board her suggestions for improvements.

I also know someone through work who had an operation on his sinuses as he it was getting blocked every so while and they opened it up. He now had constant 24/7 pain as a nerve has been damaged and there is nothing that can be done about it.

My final grandparent, although the longest lived has MS. Which we suspect was caused by a radioactive dye injected into her when she had cancer. They cured the cancer, but she had been in a wheel chair for the last 30 years. So I have visited her a lot of times in hospital and I can frankly say its horrific.

So well done on surviving, my Gran has survived too but with horrible side effects.

Oh and my Aunt, had an enlarged thyroid and was told that in some cases this could be a sign of cancer. She had a biopsy that was inconclusive. Because she was worried about this, she went ahead with having it removed. She had ended up with a big scar across her neck that she thinks looks like someone has tried to slit her throat.

On going back for her final consulation, there is no mention of cancer and she finally has to ask. Was there any sign of cancer? The consultant says, "Cancer? What on earth made you think there could be cancer?" <looking at her as if shes crazy>

So if you really want to entrust your life into this organisation go right ahead, but dont say I didnt warn you.

I'm sorry to hear that about your grandparents but with respect I'm not about to judge the NHS's effectiveness by some anecdotals on an anonymous web forum. I am in no way stating that the NHS is perfect, it's in dire need of restructuring and faces enormous problems.

I'm just saying that to state that "Having any treatment at the NHS increases your chances of dieing." is just bonkers

It's a hard position to defend and I'm not sure why you're bothering tbh

[Johnny Storm]

It's a hard position to defend and I'm not sure why you're bothering tbh

You are right, its not like I care if you die. We all must make our choices and take our chances.

You will however notice that around 50% of the people on the the poll re the vaccine said no. 33% saying they wouldnt take it under any circumstances. 30% said they didnt know enough to make a choice yet.

So if you are in the yes camp, you are firmly in the minority.

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...howtopic=119709

[I_Claudius]

You are right, its not like I care if you die. We all must make our choices and take our chances.

You will however notice that around 50% of the people on the the poll re the vaccine said no. 33% saying they wouldnt take it under any circumstances. 30% said they didnt know enough to make a choice yet.

So if you are in the yes camp, you are firmly in the minority.

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...howtopic=119709

not quite sure what you think that poll proves tbh

if it was a poll stating "Having any treatment at the NHS increases your chances of dieing - True or False" then you might have a point, otherwise it looks quite a lot like you're trying to fudge the issue.

Either way I'm still not about to make life or death decisions based on an internet forum poll.

and my original point still stands, in overstating your case you're imho sounding more than a little nuts.

[R K]

I'm going to stock up on paracetemol/Ibuprofen etc. By the time this kicks off I suspect the shelves will be empty. Anything else I might need? Got plenty of food/water supplies anyway, not that I expect to be eating much, but in case of a breakdown in the supply chain. Can't do much about the NHS - but I'm expecting they'll be over-whelmed.

If you still think you may have swine flu, call your local GP - do not go to the GPs surgery or hospital in person.

Your local GP will be able to tell you if you have swine flu over the phone.

If they say you have swine flu they will give you a voucher number which your Flu Friend (the person caring for you) can use to pick up anti-viral drugs from the local collection centre. This may be a local pharmacy or community centre.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Swineflu/DG_177814

Anti-viral drugs

Anti-viral drugs work by preventing the flu virus from reproducing - to be effective you need to take them within 48 hours of the onset of symptoms. This means the illness may be shortened by a day and reduce the risk of complications. Read the section above, ‘if you have the flu’ before contacting your doctor about anti-viral drugs.

have a two-week stock of food and other supplies in case you and your family are ill

I guarantee very few people will have a two-week stock of food and supplies as even advised by Govt.

I'd hazard a guess that in the event this gets serious, it will be food shortages that become the bigger problem.

[Peter Hun]

You are right, its not like I care if you die. We all must make our choices and take our chances.

You will however notice that around 50% of the people on the the poll re the vaccine said no. 33% saying they wouldnt take it under any circumstances. 30% said they didnt know enough to make a choice yet.

So if you are in the yes camp, you are firmly in the minority.

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...howtopic=119709

Just proves that a lot of idiots visit this web site.

[Peter Hun]

I'm going to stock up on paracetemol/Ibuprofen etc. By the time this kicks off I suspect the shelves will be empty. Anything else I might need? Got plenty of food/water supplies anyway, not that I expect to be eating much, but in case of a breakdown in the supply chain. Can't do much about the NHS - but I'm expecting they'll be over-whelmed.

Anti-Viral's and antibiotics will be the only thing likely to make a difference, antibiotics will only help if you get pneumonia and that will have to be diagnosed by a doctor.

[MOP]

I'm going to stock up on paracetemol/Ibuprofen etc. By the time this kicks off I suspect the shelves will be empty. Anything else I might need? Got plenty of food/water supplies anyway, not that I expect to be eating much, but in case of a breakdown in the supply chain. Can't do much about the NHS - but I'm expecting they'll be over-whelmed.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Swineflu/DG_177814

I guarantee very few people will have a two-week stock of food and supplies as even advised by Govt.

I'd hazard a guess that in the event this gets serious, it will be food shortages that become the bigger problem.

I might start a wee thread on this latter today RK. Pull a few ideas together.

Better safe than sorry.

[Reck B]

Just proves that a lot of idiots visit this web site.

Yourself being a major one.

[MOP]

Anti-Viral's and antibiotics will be the only thing likely to make a difference, antibiotics will only help if you get pneumonia and that will have to be diagnosed by a doctor.

I think RK is right. What if you can't get adequate medical help when you need it? I would like to be prepared for such a situation if it were to occur.

[Johnny Storm]

I might start a wee thread on this latter today RK. Pull a few ideas together.

Better safe than sorry.

Thats a good idea. My mum is famous for buying stuff when its on offer, so they will not be running out of food for several months. My gran despite being alive in the war has cupboards which are mostly empty and ive told her if it looks like its getting worse to put a big order in online.

One thing I did wonder about , how automated is our electricity supply? Is it likely to go off? But we can save this for your later thread

[R K]

I think RK is right. What if you can't get adequate medical help when you need it? I would like to be prepared for such a situation if it were to occur.

I'm just thinking aloud really (as is my won't). The govt. plan appears to be to get 100,000 a day to ring their GP surgery (or NHS direct) and get a voucher number for a supply of anti-virals. Then for your 'flu friend' to go queue at the local supply point.

Given that even on a normal day it seems to be all but impossible to get through to my local GP and once I've toddled along and he's given me a little green invoice it then takes another 1/2 hour in the queue at the local pharmacy, the chances of the govt. 'plan' not being a total horlicks seem fairly remote.

On top of which they themselves are saying that you need to get the anti-viral within the first 48 hours and the maximum benefit is only likely to be shortening the impact by around 1 day out of 5 - then the whole thing starts looking rather less effective than 'having a plan' would suggest.

Most people that get it will still be sick for at least several days and off work and need to sort themselves out. That's the reality.

[Johnny Storm]

On top of which they themselves are saying that you need to get the anti-viral within the first 48 hours and the maximum benefit is only likely to be shortening the impact by around 1 day out of 5 - then the whole thing starts looking rather less effective than 'having a plan' would suggest.

Well yes, but if its severe enough to kill you then shortening the impact may be enough to surive?

[waitingandsaving]

I think we're in for a sudden increase in people with swine flu - but only because the criteria is changing.

From here on in, if it sounds like you have flu-like symptoms, you're going to be given tamiflu. It'll be chalked up as a case of swine flu, whether it is or not. That's going to change the figures reported on the news dramatically.

The out of hours services can't keep up - they have lots of people triaging calls, but not enough Drs and nurses to follow up on the triaging. So (in the same way as Dunspeculating) people get endless phone calls to say someone will phone soon. Until the OOH services provide the manpower, there are going to be a lot of people stuck waiting for the phone to ring...

[Dunspeculatin]

Another update from the world of the infected if anyone's interested: It's been 3 days since I called NHS Direct and I called my doctor's this morning too; they will call me back about my antivirals some time this afternoon and don't seem concerned that I am high risk.

My advice, buy all the Tamiflu you can off the internet and don't even bother with the NHS.

[uptherebels]

Yes, you are far better without medical care when you are sick, thanks for that stunning insight.

It's flu. For the vast majority of people, including me, flu shouldn't require any medical care other than bedrest.

[MOP]

A previously healthy 7 year old has died from swine flu in London.

[MOP]

Another update from the world of the infected if anyone's interested: It's been 3 days since I called NHS Direct and I called my doctor's this morning too; they will call me back about my antivirals some time this afternoon and don't seem concerned that I am high risk.

My advice, buy all the Tamiflu you can off the internet and don't even bother with the NHS.

I wouldn't even know where to look? Would you not need a perscription?

[Johnny Storm]

I wouldn't even know where to look? Would you not need a perscription?

I suspect this is going to be hard to find and very expensive. I think the other poster who suggested faking flu symptoms to get some earlier is onto a winner.

P.S. I wouldnt suggest taking it now, hardly anyone is dieing. If we exhaust supplies for this wave, when the serious wave starts (if) then there will be none left.

[Peter Hun]

I wouldn't even know where to look? Would you not need a perscription?

In theory yes. In reality, no. They will smuggle it to you illegally and you you will pay through the nose for the pleasure. I bought from drugdelivery.ca in the past, expensive. I've also bought from freedom-pharmacy.com and they are cheaper but I do not vouch for either site and you may get them confiscated at customs. Buy and administer at your own risk.

Given that even on a normal day it seems to be all but impossible to get through to my local GP and once I've toddled along and he's given me a little green invoice it then takes another 1/2 hour in the queue at the local pharmacy, the chances of the govt. 'plan' not being a total horlicks seem fairly remote.

You cannot even visit my GP if you have Swine Flu symptoms, they are supposed to deliver Tamiflu to your home.

It's flu. For the vast majority of people, including me, flu shouldn't require any medical care other than bedrest.

Flu kills, its not 'Flu', its a potentially fatal infection. Maybe 99.9% of people will live, maybe 50% (Avian Flu) will live. After 40% of UK population has been infected we can decide whether its was a minor or major pandemic. Until then, take all the chances you like with your life, your choice.

Well yes, but if its severe enough to kill you then shortening the impact may be enough to surive?

Spot on. Getting Tamiflu within the first 2 days is essential, which is why I stocked up and even season flu vaccinations may have some benefit in reducing mortality

[Peter Hun]

I suspect this is going to be hard to find and very expensive. I think the other poster who suggested faking flu symptoms to get some earlier is onto a winner.

P.S. I wouldnt suggest taking it now, hardly anyone is dieing. If we exhaust supplies for this wave, when the serious wave starts (if) then there will be none left.

I agree, UK has more than enough supplies but don't for heaven sake waste it if you don't have swine flu - you are not going to get another dose.