My Contract Has Just Been Outsourced...

[Chrysalis]

I think the outsourcing of UK jobs to India, and elsewhere, is the political scandal yet to come to light.

If MPs have been, in their words, bending the rules on their expenses you have to wonder what has been going on when they have been involved in multi-million pounds public sector contract negotiations.

Of course, I am not saying they have done anything wrong but it is only Human to think about such things.

my guess a political decision was made a while back and agreement with india that we give them jobs, and I expect they have given us something in return (no idea what tho). Because so far the gain is all one sided for india.

[Greg Bowman]

You would think outsourcing and offshoring would decrease in a recession but in fact it will accellerate because caompanies are forced to make cuts

and savings and do more for less.

The big question is how will workers respond?

Will they bend over and take it up the **** or will they fight back like in France?

How about fighting back with a proposition that the customers like and can earn you money and create jobs or I am on the wrong thread? This appears to be the time warp all bosses are w****** thread.

Long live Arthur Scargill

[Chrysalis]

Some MP's had very close relationships with the consultancies (who had outsourcing operations) so had a vested interest in promoting the movement of IT jobs (and others) abroad. Patricia Hewitt and Accenture springs to mind. I'm sure there are others.

why am I not surprised my MP name is there again, she seems to be involved in a few dodgy things lately. Whilst she has helped me in the past with my life issues and I am grateful for it I dont like her dealings she has made.

What makes it even sadder is that during the boom years my area (her constituency) had an unemployment rate of over 5%, I dread to think what it is like now. That was people on JSA or income support excluding incapacity and people who dont claim any benefits.

This area has been massively affected by outsourcing as it lost originally its manufacturing jobs, and has poor wages, you would think patricia hewitt if she cared for her voters would actually be against outsourcing. But I suppose another thing to consider is we have a high indian population here and they may well be happy with the work going to india.

[Chrysalis]

Oh yes, 825 million, this is at the same time as the pathetic train to gain programme in the UK is running out of money and being pegged back.

http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page14329

Mr Brown highlighted an aid package of £825 million that would help put four miillion more children in schools by 2011, and announced further assistance to help build 13 universites and science institutes around the country. A long-term education forum would also be established along with increased exchange of students between British and Indian universities, he said.

yes this is what I mean 2 posts ago, I think there is a political deal that has been made where the UK is deliberatly helping out india's economy at the cost of our own.

[Chrysalis]

I distinctly remember you boasting about your good job and how unlike the lower skilled workers (IT isn't it?) they would never outsource your contract to India because you 'sort out the mess' the Indian people create.

Now I hope you have a little more sympathy for those 'lower skilled workers' whose only difference from you is that they were born a decade (or two) later and by the time they entered the IT marketplace there were much fewer jobs and less pay and they didn't have the experienced required to be an IT consultant or whatever it was you did.

Honestly I'd have more sympathy for your plight if you weren't so arrogant in previous posts.

I admit I've probably been a little harsh to you, but that might be something to do with what my lecturer said to our class in university- "When I graduated my first job was earning 30kpa doing (bla bla Java project) and you can all do the same if you work hard", I pointed out to him that the market is much different now and a graduate wouldn't have a chance in hell of earning more than 20k, maybe not even get a decent job unless he had a 1st from a decent university.

Basically in IT there is a lot of arrogance from the older generation to the younger generation but in reality eventually as the Indian IT workforce becomes more knowledgable and experienced, everyone will be superseded.

I guess you could always become an IT lecturer, seems like a comfortable job.

By the way I didn't go into IT after university, as I didn't want to work 40 hours/ week in an IT support call center which is just about the only job most IT graduates can get.

excellent post, one thing I cant stand is people claiming all you need to do in life is work hard and you will be rich and successful, claiming there is no such thing as luck etc.

if only life was that simple eh.

[Cogs]

Basically in IT there is a lot of arrogance from the older generation to the younger generation but in reality eventually as the Indian IT workforce becomes more knowledgable and experienced, everyone will be superseded.

We've been here before with consumer electronics and cars. Remember when people used to talk about "Jap-crap"?

Younger forum members may associate Japanese production with high quality and cutting edge features, but it wasn't always like that. And when they did manage to basically copy things in a competent way, people started to claim that they didn't have the brains or the mentality to design their own stuff, the British/American designer would still call the tune (off-topic but I think its interesting that the 'high value only' spin always comes immediately before the collapse). This is the claim now made by many in IT about Indian workers; fine for the grunt work but they'll never be the architects. There is an inevitability to all this.

[Joey Buttafueco Jr]

I distinctly remember you boasting about your good job and how unlike the lower skilled workers (IT isn't it?) they would never outsource your contract to India because you 'sort out the mess' the Indian people create.

Now I hope you have a little more sympathy for those 'lower skilled workers' whose only difference from you is that they were born a decade (or two) later and by the time they entered the IT marketplace there were much fewer jobs and less pay and they didn't have the experienced required to be an IT consultant or whatever it was you did.

Honestly I'd have more sympathy for your plight if you weren't so arrogant in previous posts.

I admit I've probably been a little harsh to you, but that might be something to do with what my lecturer said to our class in university- "When I graduated my first job was earning 30kpa doing (bla bla Java project) and you can all do the same if you work hard", I pointed out to him that the market is much different now and a graduate wouldn't have a chance in hell of earning more than 20k, maybe not even get a decent job unless he had a 1st from a decent university.

Basically in IT there is a lot of arrogance from the older generation to the younger generation but in reality eventually as the Indian IT workforce becomes more knowledgable and experienced, everyone will be superseded.

I guess you could always become an IT lecturer, seems like a comfortable job.

By the way I didn't go into IT after university, as I didn't want to work 40 hours/ week in an IT support call center which is just about the only job most IT graduates can get.

"I pointed out to him that the market is much different now and a graduate wouldn't have a chance in hell of earning more than 20k, maybe not even get a decent job unless he had a 1st from a decent university."

I disagree

"Basically in IT there is a lot of arrogance from the older generation to the younger generation but in reality eventually as the Indian IT workforce becomes more knowledgable and experienced, everyone will be superseded."

Ditto

[OnlyMe]

Thought this was a pretty accurate sum up.

http://ministryvalues.com/index.php?option...&Itemid=127

The Root Cause of the Financial Catastrophe - Cultural

image

Ministry Values.com Loves this ...

The underlying cause of the economic catastrophe is cultural, not just a few bad policies or corrupt officials: The USA now has an excessively adversarial, exploitative, cutthroat culture, undermining the civility, generosity, tolerance and respect that societies need to function. It's a dysfunctionality that devastates human capital and ruins good people.

I'm an old engineer now, but I still teach classes and mentor budding engineers. This cultural sickness hits them in 3 cruel ways: an unforgiving financial sector where loan-sharking is the norm, mass outsourcing of critical jobs, and a legal system so vicious that good people find all their decency and good intentions subverted in the interest of personal destruction. Recent grads have crippling debt, yet they're "the ones who did everything right"-- thrifty savers who studied hard, didn't gamble or waste their savings, and patiently built their careers.

But education and living expenses debt are severe-- trapping them at the start of their careers-- and if grads hit a bump in the road, like suffering crime, illness, an accident of some kind, they're ruined financially. Interest rates in the US would be usury anywhere else, and since unfortunate circumstances causing debt are ignored, many decent, hard-working, entrepreneurial graduates are devastated. This is worsened by mass outsourcing and corporate abuse of the H1-B program, depriving grads of jobs and experience.

On top of this misery, our legal system is so viciously adversarial- with greed and high-stakes money ruling the system- that decent people are ruined, as they see their character attacked. I've seen good friends, business partners, even spouses who once loved each other deeply, pushed to "go at it" and destroy each other for money-- rather than accepting the fallibility in all of us, and coming to a reasonable accommodation better for everyone, that respects how much people have invested in their careers.

In short, the US has become an inexplicably vicious, hostile place that undercuts its talented people, denigrates achievement, and has lost touch with the basic importance of mutual respect.

1/3 of my students are inclined toward emigration from the USA, mostly to other engineering hubs (Korea, Belgium, Switzerland, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Japan or China, depending on language skills) but many to South American countries not known for engineering-- simply because they're now better places to start one's career fresh and raise a family. Only the UK and Australia suffer a similar such brain drain-- and they've absorbed many of the worst aspects of our own culture.

Financial challenges and conflicts occur anywhere, but in most other developed countries today, greed and adversarialism do not predominate. These places are more understanding of human foibles, and more interested in welcoming simple generosity and decency, while cherishing talented and creative people who help to produce wealth with their ideas.

— Radek, Portland, Oregon

[Guest vicmac64]

Globalism is the scandal - this is Globalism.

I think the outsourcing of UK jobs to India, and elsewhere, is the political scandal yet to come to light.

If MPs have been, in their words, bending the rules on their expenses you have to wonder what has been going on when they have been involved in multi-million pounds public sector contract negotiations.

Of course, I am not saying they have done anything wrong but it is only Human to think about such things.

[babesagainstmachines]

Globalism is the scandal - this is Globalism.

Please tell me vicmac. Why do you only care for people who by some fluke of nature were born within a specific area of land? What have the rest done to you?

[Guest absolutezero]

Why did you have to associate his post with the BNP twice? He is not associated with them in anyway, nor did he mention them on this thread? You show a complete lack of respect to normal people who are BNP voters by doing this. Are you working for the Daily Mirror?

FWIW you can be against outsourcing to India and not hate Indians. If you look on the BNP website they actually also blame globalization and not the workers themselves.

A normal BNP voter is a racist.

Just because the BNP wear a suit while they spout racist venom doesn't make them credible.

Look at their policies. They ARE racist.

Edit: Grammar.

[Johnny Storm]

A normal BNP voter is a racist.

Just because the BNP wear a suit while they spout racist venom doesn't make them credible.

Look at their policies. They ARE racist.

Edit: Grammar.

I agree with all their policies from what Ive seen. But then I agree with putting White English people in front of parasitic immigrants. I bet most people do actually. Look at this very recent election, only just pushed into second place. (See below)

Wake up. People are sick of immigrants and the damage they are causing to our society. Trying to pretend otherwise and throwing "racist" around will just end up with genocide.

Salford City Council

Irwell & Riverside ward

21st May 2009

Salford Council

Irwell Riverside

Matt MOLD (Labour Party) 606

Steven MIDDLETON (Liberal Democrats)293

Gary TUMULTY(British National Party) 276

Chris BATES (Conservative Party)189

Rob MITCHELL (Green Party) 125

Duran O’DWYER (UK Independence Party) 123

BNP Percentage: 17.1%

May 2008: Lab 888, LibDem 337, Con 286, BNP 233.

[ItsColdUpHere]

I might know of an oracle financials opportunity if you are interested in perm consultancy work including some travel (99% UK).

Its with my old employer. PM me if you are interested.

Thanks for the that. I've got 10 weeks left here (and I'm on 2 months notice so I can't do much at the moment )

[ItsColdUpHere]

excellent post, one thing I cant stand is people claiming all you need to do in life is work hard and you will be rich and successful, claiming there is no such thing as luck etc.

if only life was that simple eh.

There is luck AND hard work - you normally need BOTH to succeed.

You'll find very few successful lazy bsatards.

Getting the first 3 months of a contract that lasted me 10 years - that was luck, somebody I was working with in 1999 turned it down and I got the chance.

Outlasting about 15 other contractors who have come and gone over the period - that was down to hard work.

[Justice]

The BNP would name and shame these companies sending jobs abroad but i guess that would be racist and somehow be connected to Hittler and gassing the jews

All 3 main parties have sold you down the road and have many people convinced that the BNP is the enermy

[bagsos]

I agree with all their policies from what Ive seen. But then I agree with putting White English people in front of parasitic immigrants. I bet most people do actually. Look at this very recent election, only just pushed into second place. (See below)

Wake up. People are sick of immigrants and the damage they are causing to our society. Trying to pretend otherwise and throwing "racist" around will just end up with genocide.

Salford City Council

Irwell & Riverside ward

21st May 2009

Salford Council

Irwell Riverside

Matt MOLD (Labour Party) 606

Steven MIDDLETON (Liberal Democrats)293

Gary TUMULTY(British National Party) 276

Chris BATES (Conservative Party)189

Rob MITCHELL (Green Party) 125

Duran O’DWYER (UK Independence Party) 123

BNP Percentage: 17.1%

May 2008: Lab 888, LibDem 337, Con 286, BNP 233.

What? 606 people were STUPID enough to vote Labour; oh well it was Salford I suppose you couldn't expect anything else of them

[Justice]

A normal BNP voter is a racist.

Just because the BNP wear a suit while they spout racist venom doesn't make them credible.

Look at their policies. They ARE racist.

Edit: Grammar.

If voting for britsih jobs for britsih people is racist then i'll have some of that

[bagsos]

There is luck AND hard work - you normally need BOTH to succeed.

You'll find very few successful lazy bsatards.

Getting the first 3 months of a contract that lasted me 10 years - that was luck, somebody I was working with in 1999 turned it down and I got the chance.

Outlasting about 15 other contractors who have come and gone over the period - that was down to hard work.

Au contraire mon ami; I've met loads. There's a trick in the law and accountancy industries called "leverage", and once you understand it, the lazier you are the more successful you become.

[Johnny Storm]

What? 606 people were STUPID enough to vote Labour; oh well it was Salford I suppose you couldn't expect anything else of them

It is scarey isnt it. If this was a general election it would be another 5 years of Labour!

[ItsColdUpHere]

Au contraire mon ami; I've met loads. There's a trick in the law and accountancy industries called "leverage", and once you understand it, the lazier you are the more successful you become.

You are of course completely right.

I'll add the caveat "in normal work" to the end of my tome.

[redgenieuk]

function outsource() {while ($ukpeopleinwork > 1) {$quality--;$expenses--;$ukpeopleinwork--;dowhile;}

[I want a house!]

I'm a male software engineer (well I was until very recently).

I got your first sentence there PIOO, but then the rest kind of well, started rambling. You're saying we don't smell that much (thank you - although I do after the gym I can assure) ... and your company is trading ... hot water for someone's ... rent?

Anyway. I find anti-Indian racist comments offensive too. Its not their fault, and if we were in their shoes we'd do the same - get out the "Programming in 24 Hours" textbooks the night before and then get down the recruiting office in the morning.

No, the real culprits of the rape of the UK's IT industry are much more likely to be middle aged, white and male. When I worked in tech consulting I never saw any females - seriously.

I don't think I did anyway .

Actually, on my floor, no female developers. Only the boss of the test team, strangly her team has about a 50-50 mean distribution between female to male employee. On my floor, all men, well as you say, some could be women but as you say, we never talk without MSN.

[Sir Sidney Ruff-Diamond]

excellent post, one thing I cant stand is people claiming all you need to do in life is work hard and you will be rich and successful, claiming there is no such thing as luck etc.

if only life was that simple eh.

Au contraire mon ami; I've met loads. There's a trick in the law and accountancy industries called "leverage", and once you understand it, the lazier you are the more successful you become.

You should read Malcolm Gladwell's new book Outliers. It has a lot to say on the topic of what it actually takes to become successful (not what you think) and is a very entertaining read.

[clubberdude]

Have Labour, Conservatives or Lib Dems pledged to do anything to stop it??

Course not.

One political party has though. Vote for them on June 4th.

I assume your talking about the BNP?

Get real. If they got into power, you'd be wishing NuLabour were back in power.

The BNP would be a hiding to nowhere. It wouldn't end well, trust me.

[Mish Mash]

The BNP would name and shame these companies sending jobs abroad but i guess that would be racist and somehow be connected to Hittler and gassing the jews

How could it? The BNP doesn't believe that the Holocaust even took place (they call it the "Holohoax").

Ever seen that picture of Nick Griffin in his "White Power" T-shirt? Him a racist? On yer bike!