Realistbear Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...Cs&refer=uk HSBC Investor Knight Warns of ‘Substantial Capital Shortfall’ By Mathew "Matt" Carr Jan. 18 (Bloomberg) -- HSBC Holdings Plc, Europe’s largest bank, may need to make the U.K.’s biggest rights issue to shore up its capital position, said investment group and shareholder Knight Vinke Asset Management LLC. London-based HSBC’s Household International unit, an investor in sub-prime loans, “has turned out to be an unmitigated disaster,” Knight Vinke said today in a statement published on its Web site. “We agree with Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs & Co. that HSBC has a substantial and worsening capital shortfall,” the statement said. “There can be little doubt that HSBC will need substantial additional capital if Household is not restructured,” Eric Knight, chief executive officer of Knight Vinke, said in the statement. Some of the statement was reported earlier by the Sunday Telegraph newspaper. AIAP. Looks like another one might be about to bite the dust. They are all insolvent, every last one of the greedy sods. Looks like taxpayers are going to be paying their bonuses and keeping their lifestyles going for decades to come. Gordon's "miracle economy" and his HPI house of cards has ruined us. It was some boom and its going to be some bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y-QUERK Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Are there any banks not screwed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4rk Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Are there any banks not screwed? sperm bank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y-QUERK Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 sperm bank? Right. I'll be sure to make a deposit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepLurker Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 sperm bank? I've heard that all their deposits have been frozen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shao Kahn Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I've heard that all their deposits have been frozen. No, they have just all been spunked away... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyOne Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 (edited) Are there any banks not screwed? There is one global problem. Banks lent too much money against inflated residential and commercial property values. For some banks like Northern Rock, the problems were exposed early because of the high proportion of their business done in wholesale markets. For some banks like HSBC, the problems are being exposed later because of the high proportion of their business done in retail markets. The retail versus wholesale mix have impacted the timing at which the problems have been exposed but do not change the simple fact that most banks have the same problem which will have the same results in the end. This is a financial disaster of epic proportions. All the support given to banks so far is not even enough to replenish the losses that they have taken to date or will report in the coming years. Until balance sheets are repaired there cannot be new lending. Edited January 18, 2009 by LuckyOne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sillybear2 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 (edited) The whole system is insolvent, has been for many months now, they just can't pretend anymore. The second round affects of a faltering economy is just the final kick for the two legged stool. Come this time next year everything will be nationalised, everything. Edited January 18, 2009 by sillybear2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyOne Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 The whole system is insolvent, has been for many months now, they just can't pretend anymore. The second round affects of a faltering economy is just the final kick for the two legged stool.Come this time next year everything will be nationalised, everything. Yes. The wholesale businesses are accounted for on a mark to market basis and the markets says that we are on a hiding to nowhere. The retail businesses are accounted for on an accrual basis. To date, impairments have not been large enough to track what the market is telling us about fair value. At maturity, mark to market and accrual accounting have to value transactions over their life at the same value. I cannot see any way for house prices to be propped up in this environment. I am willing to change my mind when the evidence changes but there is none that I can see so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shedfish Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 i dunno, every quarter or so... three months of (fingers in ears, lalala), then another death rattle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I'm just sick to death of hearing that the "banks must get back to lending again". Lend with what money?? They are pretty much insolvent. If the gov know they haven't got money to lend, they must know that to lend, the money will have to be created out of thin air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tbatst2000 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Treat anything Knight Vincke say with a very big pinch of salt. Remember, this is the very same hedge fund that tried to get HSBC to radically reduce its tier 1 capital and lend out lots more money during the boom. I wouldn't be surprised to find that they now have a very large short position in HSBC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shindigger Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I'm just sick to death of hearing that the "banks must get back to lending again". Lend with what money?? They are pretty much insolvent. If the gov know they haven't got money to lend, they must know that to lend, the money will have to be created out of thin air. It can't be long before many people actually twig that the banks will actually be lending our OWN MONEY back to us. Think they'll be clamouring for a mortgage then McTavish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piece of paper Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I'm just sick to death of hearing that the "banks must get back to lending again". Lend with what money?? They are pretty much insolvent. If the gov know they haven't got money to lend, they must know that to lend, the money will have to be created out of thin air. This might be what is confounding the government. Banks have been creating money out of thin air since fractional banking started. The government has great difficulty understanding why they cannot resume doing so. However, I don't think that the government is as concerned with the lack of bank lending as it is about the prospect of this centuries old con-trick being revealed to the electorate. Having to admit to a lot of people who believed that they were relatively wealthy that they are slaves/paupers can be a health hazard. p-o-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deckard Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Treat anything Knight Vincke say with a very big pinch of salt. Remember, this is the very same hedge fund that tried to get HSBC to radically reduce its tier 1 capital and lend out lots more money during the boom. I wouldn't be surprised to find that they now have a very large short position in HSBC. +1 Beware of hedge funds talking their book... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Oh so that is why Gordo was told to say 'come clean' Though the lad had no idea fings were this bad couldn't have well he's ministers son ennit .... reverts to Latin.....words ending in unt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyOne Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Beware of hedge funds talking their book... And of course, also beware of banks talking their book ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 And of course, also beware of banks talking their book ..... I think the moral is, trust no one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deckard Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I think the moral is, trust no one. homo homini lupus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the primitive Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 sperm bank? That's the bank for those who don't want to be screwed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
repetitive bleats Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 That's the bank for those who don't want to be screwed genius. seriously - for a bunch of doom merchants you all make me laugh quite regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearbullfence Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I think the moral is, trust no one. The truth is out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sillybear2 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I think the moral is, trust no one. Why should I believe you on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y-QUERK Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 The truth is out there. Well it certainly isn't in here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgruntledinmaidenhead Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 FFS is there no where simple and easy now? What do you do with money ? Offshore branches with better guarantees? Or just some spread round countries in various colorful paper styles... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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