People Are Dissapering - Gone Without A Trace

[US Citizen]

I am in the unfortunate position, that one of my business clients owes me about £300 for products and services supplied to him over the year. He cheque bounced and despite several reminders to cancel his subscription and doing so, I am yet to see my money. I had a conversation with a debt collection company, a very large one that sounds like something to do with a court called Intrum Justitia. One of the debt advisors told me they would do everything they can to trace this individual and try and extract from funds, but they said a lot of people are dissapearing from the system.

Curiously I asked what did she mean and she told me that in the UK our entire banking, mortgage, credit and insurance system is based on your name being on an electoral at your council. Each council is legally obliged to give/sell every name on that least to the credit reference agencies and this becomes the cornerstone of your credit file.

Every application for credit, is subsequently checked against your name being on the latest list of voters. When granted credit your payment history form the the principle part of your credit file and your ability to get finance, bank accounts and credit cards.

In the past five years each council have adopted a rolling registration of electoral roll voters, your name can be added at any time in the year except during the annual canvass.

She told what people are doing, is finding an empty property, or block of flats etc and simply download a form from the internet and claiming they live at that new address. The council add their names to new property and delete it from the old property where of course the debtor may or may not still live.

I asked what about council tax, she said the council tax system and the electorall system are not linked and in any case only one name need go ont he council tax bill and no proof of identitly is needed for that nor is there any checks done as long as the bill is paid.

I asked and phone bills, gas bills, electric bills what about these, she said of course when was the last time your were asked to prove your identity when you switched suppliers.

Ok what about their exiting arrangements, she most just keep or open up a non status or basic bank account, then apply for credit in their own names on an empty property, as far as we are concerned they have moved and we have no right to pester the previous address. They simply vanish from our debtor system.

Surely, I said there must be someway to track them down.

Yes she said only one way, that is to try and tempt them to take out more credit, so get them back on the system so we can chase them for the debts they already have.

She said. People are doing this all the time and they are getting so good at it, there little we can do. Her advice was writeoff the £300 and put it down to experience.

People are choosing to simply vanish and dissapear than go bankrupt. We'll see more of this as things get tighter, a hell of a lot more.

[The Spaniard]

People are choosing to simply vanish and dissapear than go bankrupt. We'll see more of this as things get tighter, a hell of a lot more.

Another good reason for RFID chip implants in everyone.

[The Masked Tulip]

I was hoping this thread was going to be about white slavers, Barbarella type scantilly clade babes, whipped cream and leather.

[cartimandua51]

Ok what about their exiting arrangements, she most just keep or open up a non status or basic bank account, then apply for credit in their own names on an empty property, as far as we are concerned they have moved and we have no right to pester the previous address. They simply vanish from our debtor system.

Surely, I said there must be someway to track them down.

Yes she said only one way, that is to try and tempt them to take out more credit, so get them back on the system so we can chase them for the debts they already have.

She said. People are doing this all the time and they are getting so good at it, there little we can do. Her advice was writeoff the £300 and put it down to experience.

People are choosing to simply vanish and dissapear than go bankrupt. We'll see more of this as things get tighter, a hell of a lot more.

Tell me about it. Happens all the time with students - they move about so much they're impossible to track down. The new tenants are forever gotting debt collectors at the door and having to fend them off - or we do it as their landlords. Happened to us a couple of times till we started insisting on UK resident parent as guarantor (pissed off a couple of 30+ year old mature students, but we won't let without it).

Not a complete guarantee of course - one of the parents hopped it back to Poland, despite having been resident in the UK for years.

Basically, if you haven't got a guarantor, or details of employer and NI number you're screwed. Court judgements are only any use against people who can't move easily (some council tenants, for example) or who still have some respect for the system. Once someone discovers just how easy it is to duck it they're on their merry way; especially if they have a common name. If you have Euphrasia ffotherington-Thomas on your passport it's a bit more difficult!

[Justice]

Another good reason for RFID chip implants in everyone.

We will all get them if we don't stand up and then it won't be a fine for eating a kit-cat whilst driving it will be a fine for eating one whilst walking in an area that has been seleted to be food free and if that sounds hard to beleive then look at whats happening to smokers.

Yesterday they came for others and i did nothing and today they came for me

Edited February 6, 2008 by Justice

[BTB]

No relation to the thread but reading it just reminded me of something.

I had my car MOT'd by my local garage in September. It needed a few things doing and the bill would be £200-£300.

I picked the car up and he said he will sort out the bill and give me a ring with the amount.

I have asked for this bill 5 times now and have seen this guy out and about and he says hello but never mentions the bill.

The weird thing is that it is bothering me. I don't like owing people money.

[Wario]

No relation to the thread but reading it just reminded me of something.

I had my car MOT'd by my local garage in September. It needed a few things doing and the bill would be £200-£300.

I picked the car up and he said he will sort out the bill and give me a ring with the amount.

I have asked for this bill 5 times now and have seen this guy out and about and he says hello but never mentions the bill.

The weird thing is that it is bothering me. I don't like owing people money.

Completely ignorant on "tax efficiency", but is it possible that he's waiting till next financial year to book it?

Or maybe he did Bu55er-all to the car and MOT'd it regardless (don't laugh, happened to me a few years back, Iranian-run garage, fella just drove it in through one set of double doors and out the other end a few minutes later. "There you go mate, twenty quid"

Except your man's honest (-ish).

Beware of a nice headed-paper bill next April ... ?

[jonewer]

If people are disappearing then they certainly arent in the deep-freeze in the basement. So no need to look there then!

[lowrentyieldmakessense(honest!)]

No relation to the thread but reading it just reminded me of something.

I had my car MOT'd by my local garage in September. It needed a few things doing and the bill would be £200-£300.

I picked the car up and he said he will sort out the bill and give me a ring with the amount.

I have asked for this bill 5 times now and have seen this guy out and about and he says hello but never mentions the bill.

The weird thing is that it is bothering me. I don't like owing people money.

the owner was on holiday - he didn't work there really - he was just trying to scam as many as he could.

[SarahBell]

It's funny that RFID. They're building new schools near us and have put 100 CCTV cameras in. Each child has to have a name tag. What if they RFID'd the tags? They'd be able to look where each child was in school and know when they'd left - or spot where they were on camera by zooming in on the tag.

It's an interesting idea but would they do it?

[lowrentyieldmakessense(honest!)]

does anyone know if cgnau has been bumped off before he gave the game away

[waiting_to_exile]

It's funny that RFID. They're building new schools near us and have put 100 CCTV cameras in. Each child has to have a name tag. What if they RFID'd the tags? They'd be able to look where each child was in school and know when they'd left - or spot where they were on camera by zooming in on the tag.

It's an interesting idea but would they do it?

Are you under the impression that RFID works as a GPS locator?

[SarahBell]

Are you under the impression that RFID works as a GPS locator?

No I know RFID has a fairly short range so they could build detectors into doorways and know who's gone through.

[waiting_to_exile]

No I know RFID has a fairly short range so they could build detectors into doorways and know who's gone through.

So how does a camera zoom in on the tag?

[US Citizen]

Are you under the impression that RFID works as a GPS locator?

I'll answer that question. No.

But they can be adapted but it will cost more money. RFIDs currently cost 17p wholesale apparantly, they need to reduce the cost to 4p so that they can be used on an entire population, or so I heard. Obviously sticking a GPS locater in them will put up the manufacturing costs again.

[Guest Skint Academic]

We will all get them if we don't stand up

I'll have a RFID chip implanted in nothing but my cold dead body ...

[Qetesuesi]

Just slightly surprised no one's mentioned John Darwin yet. Anyone know what's happening with his family?

[Hard-up]

Luckily, it seems that implanted RFID chips might cause cancer. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/09/10/rf...ip_cancer_link/

[thefinalbear]

Luckily for who?

[huw]

Luckily for who?

Big Pharma

[dubsie]

I am in the unfortunate position, that one of my business clients owes me about £300 for products and services supplied to him over the year. He cheque bounced and despite several reminders to cancel his subscription and doing so, I am yet to see my money. I had a conversation with a debt collection company, a very large one that sounds like something to do with a court called Intrum Justitia. One of the debt advisors told me they would do everything they can to trace this individual and try and extract from funds, but they said a lot of people are dissapearing from the system.

I write off those sort of sums all the time, it's the nature of running your own business and some people will always avoid paying their bills. £300.00 is nothing and most collection companies won't even look at that sum, even if they find the guy there is very little they can do.

Those debts that matter are those above £750.00 but normally £5000 plus; as it's these debts that enable you to file bankruptcy for them. In the event of bankruptcy being filed all their assets will be siezed and bank accounts frozen....there is no hiding from the insolvency people.

[The Ayatollah Buggeri]

The more widespread this sort of thing becomes, the tighter credit will get. Instead of a call from your garage saying the bill will be £300, they'll be taking your card number and debiting it there and then before doing the work. Suppliers of goods and services will cease providing stuff without payment up front except to people with the most copper-bottomed credit history (e.g. been on electoral role at a given address for at least 10 years). A small number of people cheating the system are going to make life a lot more difficult for the rest of us.

[The Posh Plumber]

I write off those sort of sums all the time, it's the nature of running your own business and some people will always avoid paying their bills. £300.00 is nothing and most collection companies won't even look at that sum, even if they find the guy there is very little they can do.

Those debts that matter are those above £750.00 but normally £5000 plus; as it's these debts that enable you to file bankruptcy for them. In the event of bankruptcy being filed all their assets will be siezed and bank accounts frozen....there is no hiding from the insolvency people.

Totally agree, write it off, forget about it and move on.. I wish I was only owed 300 quid! I had a customer die on me before christmas owing over 100k!

PP

[RichB]

I am in the unfortunate position, that one of my business clients owes me about £300 for products and services supplied to him over the year. He cheque bounced and despite several reminders to cancel his subscription and doing so, I am yet to see my money. I had a conversation with a debt collection company, a very large one that sounds like something to do with a court called Intrum Justitia. One of the debt advisors told me they would do everything they can to trace this individual and try and extract from funds, but they said a lot of people are dissapearing from the system.

yeah, these buggers used to chase me as a student when some **** of a bank decided it was ok to charge about £400 for me exceeding an overdraft by a fiver.

http://www.intrum.co.uk/

[dinsdale]

I'll have a RFID chip implanted in nothing but my cold dead body ...

Soon to be rolled out to those we can't have sympathy for (paedophiles, mass murderers etc) and those who can't fight back (children). Coming to an upper arm area near you within 10 years, 100% guaranteed. Britain has become a testing ground.