A Bigger Threat Even Than The Debt Crisis?

[laurejon]

How about this then?

My carbon reduction strategy is to insulate every loft properly in the UK

Effects on the economy:

1. - It will keep lots of construction workers in useful (semi skilled) employment instead of the dole

2. It will keep rockwools factories open - thats good news for south wales

3. It will also provide an outlet for recycled materials - where the material is made from old plastc bottles / newspaper

4. We wont have to import as much norwegian / Russian gas which is good for our balance of trade.

5. Less strain on the NHS as fewer grannies admitted with hypothermia

6. less chance we will run out of gas in a cold spell closing down most of British Industry

I am afraid that if people own property in 2008 and do not have insulation in their lofts, they most likely number few and are beyond education.

PS I like your idea about using trains as the backbone to transport goods up and down the nation, it used to be called The National Freight Corporation and I worked for them a very long time ago. As a young lad I was amazed standing at railway crossings and seeing trains pulling hundreds of carriages with large containers, even cars could be moved up and down the nation on the backs of trains.

For sure the Tories killed the railway freight by Privatising NFC, but it was Labour that thought railways were going to become extinct and shut down thousands of stations.

[Kurt Barlow]

Hey you've gotta spice it a bit! You're not in Marketing are you ? (actually neither am I but anyway......)

I don't buy wind. There's a reason why arch ecophiles like the Germans place a limit of the amount that can come from it. I like tidal; you know it never switches off or gets too aggressive. I'm all for energy independence (and while we're at it, food as well). When you have those two covered you're laughing (at everyone else).

Pity about the poor Africans still burning wood in their huts and dying at 30, but at least we've "saved the Planet".

EDIT: "In terms of melting antarctica as proposed by Bogbrush". The name is bogbrush, not Jehovah.

I have attached a picture below which was the basis of some experimental work i did using solar vacuum tubes as a way to cook food and sterilise water. A charity I am now involved with is now allocating funds to provide solar tubes to villages in Rwanda, Peru and Kenya. In Rwandan sunshine a 47mm x 1500mm tube will boil 1.5 litres of water in 45-60 minutes by being placed in sunshine

The benefits.

1. Less fuel wood is needed reducing deforestation

2. Women and girls spend less time in the bush gathering fuel wood - where they are at risk of being attacked / raped

3. It is an easy and convenient way of sanitising water without chemicals or power inputs

4. No need to buy charcoal, kerosene - or at least in the same quantities.

5. less exposure to smoke - good for respiratory health

Ok - perhaps you would like to share with us what you have done for poor africans?

Edited December 28, 2008 by Kurt Barlow

[ralphmalph]

I certainly think that instead of a 2% VAT cut costing 12 billion the Govt should have invest 12 million in putting solar panels on peoples roofs and they should also insist that the wind turbines are made in the UK but of course they are not. This Govt is just one of the dumbest we have ever had.

[bogbrush]

How does the Uk appling a carbon reduction strategy cause this?

It's doesn't, but stopping them developing does

Ok - perhaps you would like to share with us what you have done for poor africans?

Absolutely nothing, never claimed to. Your effort is laudible - seriously, no pi$$ taking - but the overall point stands and they need more than that to have the life that we take for granted but could be denied to them for however long.

[Kurt Barlow]

I certainly think that instead of a 2% VAT cut costing 12 billion the Govt should have invest 12 million in putting solar panels on peoples roofs and they should also insist that the wind turbines are made in the UK but of course they are not. This Govt is just one of the dumbest we have ever had.

Yup

This lot cost my £1150 to install DIY and provides about 3200kwh (30% of hot water and heating needs) annually

[Kurt Barlow]

It's doesn't, but stopping them developing does

Absolutely nothing, never claimed to. Your effort is laudible - seriously, no pi$$ taking - but the overall point stands and they need more than that to have the life that we take for granted but could be denied to them for however long.

No one in the 'eco camp' is looking to stop the 3rd world developing. Where do you get that idea from? I accept there are a few deep eco looneys that might propose this but they are not the mainstream.

Everyone I know in the eco camp accepts that the 3rd world needs to develop, although preferably along cleaner lines than we did in the 19th Century.

Edited December 28, 2008 by Kurt Barlow

[ralphmalph]

Yup

This lot cost my £1150 to install DIY and provides about 3200kwh (30% of hot water and heating needs) annually

I am surprised the council allowed that. Where I live they would have said no way ruins the tone of the street I would need mock Georgian solar panels.

[laurejon]

I have attached a picture below which was the basis of some experimental work i did using solar vacuum tubes as a way to cook food and sterilise water. A charity I am now involved with is now allocating funds to provide solar tubes to villages in Rwanda, Peru and Kenya. In Rwandan sunshine a 47mm x 1500mm tube will boil 1.5 litres of water in 45-60 minutes by being placed in sunshine

The benefits.

1. Less fuel wood is needed reducing deforestation

2. Women and girls spend less time in the bush gathering fuel wood - where they are at risk of being attacked / raped

3. It is an easy and convenient way of sanitising water without chemicals or power inputs

4. No need to buy charcoal, kerosene - or at least in the same quantities.

5. less exposure to smoke - good for respiratory health

Ok - perhaps you would like to share with us what you have done for poor africans?

Problem is that it would not be long before they realised they could use them as rocket launchers and we will have a bigger mess that we already have on our hands.

[bogbrush]

It's that "preferably along cleaner lines than we did in the 19th Century" which is the problem though; it's not for us to tell them how to develop and right now the best way for those people to have reasonable standards of living is to use the technology we have, not fob them off and tell them we're working on it and in the meantime here's a few things to tide you over.

Anyway, not to be rude but this thread is done and needs to drop imo.

Edited December 28, 2008 by bogbrush

[laurejon]

The greatest leap the West took to becoming a successfull nation was Birth Control.

Prior to Birth Control families had 8 children and poverty abounded.

Africa has a huge population living in a continent that is unable to support those numbers in terms of resources, hence the reason there is so much unrest, with people fighting for a greater share of limited resources.

Solution: Dont give them any help that will allow them to continue reproducing, remove the Catholic Church from Africa who are actively encouraging families not to use any contraception/Protection causing a massive outbreak of HIV and STM's, and a birth explosion.

Secondly, kick the influences of the US out of Africa. The US do not make good tourists, and they make even worse business partners.

[Kurt Barlow]

I am surprised the council allowed that. Where I live they would have said no way ruins the tone of the street I would need mock Georgian solar panels.

Its on the back of the house, not overlooked. It would of gone on the roof but I dont have a south facing roof.

If ever challenged by the council I would argue its equipment attached to the side of the house not an extension of the structure.

[Kurt Barlow]

It's that "preferably along cleaner lines than we did in the 19th Century" which is the problem though; it's not for us to tell them how to develop and right now the best way for those people to have reasonable standards of living is to use the technology we have, not fob them off and tell them we're working on it and in the meantime here's a few things to tide you over.

Anyway, not to be rude but this thread is done and needs to drop imo.

No - but we can help them develop in this way

[Guest anorthosite]

No one in the 'eco camp' is looking to stop the 3rd world developing. Where do you get that idea from?

Wasn't that the same conclusion that dodgy Channel 4 documentary came to? The one that lied about volcanoes and only showed the data that fitted its theories.

[Kurt Barlow]

Wasn't that the same conclusion that dodgy Channel 4 documentary came to? The one that lied about volcanoes and only showed the data that fitted its theories.

Indeed - and Channel 4's website article on the programme still has Volcanoes listed as first in a list of natural sources of Co2 emissions. Of course it fails to mention that earths ecosystem is pretty much designed to 'reprocess' all contributions from natural sources.

[Kurt Barlow]

Wasn't that the same conclusion that dodgy Channel 4 documentary came to? The one that lied about volcanoes and only showed the data that fitted its theories.

I know a couple, the woman is an EHO, the husband an engineer. Anyway they are 'eco fascists' as Bogbrush would descibe them.

Last year they went out to Kenya with VSO for 3 months. She taught large groups of women food hygiene, food preservation principles, basic first aid, principles of sanitation - with a view to them passing this knowledge on. Her husband supervised the construction of a clinic whilst wiring it single handed and passing these skills onto the men folk of the village.

Also taught basic maintenance skills to keep generators and refrigerators going and shipped out a load of old tools for mechanical and agricultural purposes.

Fascists

[bogbrush]

EDIT: NO, I'm not joining in any more

Edited December 28, 2008 by bogbrush

[libspero]

EDIT: NO, I'm not joining in any more

Well, at the end of all that (as predicted) there is no conclusive evidence provided either way.

We have had:

6 pages of discussion about whether AIDS is real

2 pages about Vikings

3 pages about whether grapes can be grown on Hadrian's wall.

Some of the better posts from this thread are:

Very good/interesting post by LiveinHope (although unreferenced and with no particular conclusion – presumably in the MMGW camp)

Linky

Interesting graph from CCC showing a history of world temperature (although unreferenced).

Linky

Links from Kurt about the possible effects of ocean Ph on sea life (referenced). (not strictly part of the MMGW argument but an interesting ecological aside)

Linky

See you all again in 6 months

[Methinkshe]

Well, at the end of all that (as predicted) there is no conclusive evidence provided either way.

We have had:

6 pages of discussion about whether AIDS is real

2 pages about Vikings

3 pages about whether grapes can be grown on Hadrian's wall.

Some of the better posts from this thread are:

Very good/interesting post by LiveinHope (although unreferenced and with no particular conclusion – presumably in the MMGW camp)

Linky

Interesting graph from CCC showing a history of world temperature (although unreferenced).

Linky

Links from Kurt about the possible effects of ocean Ph on sea life (referenced). (not strictly part of the MMGW argument but an interesting ecological aside)

Linky

See you all again in 6 months

The debate never will be resolved because it concerns a prediction and by nature predictions/prophecies must be faith-based (unless you are Dr Who and can time travel 50 or 100 years hence, have a quick peek at the world and then come back and confirm or deny the scare stories).

The fact that it is faith-based is the reason why people tend to polarise - either believing or not. There is no middle, compromise ground possible, only believers and unbelievers. It is also the reason why MMGW is perpetuated with almost fanatical religious zeal by its adherents.

[PopGun]

Wasn't that the same conclusion that dodgy Channel 4 documentary came to? The one that lied about volcanoes and only showed the data that fitted its theories.

Sounds like a bona-fide science programme to me.

Edit: Fat fingers

Edited December 29, 2008 by bloodsucked

[Qetesuesi]

The greatest leap the West took to becoming a successfull nation was Birth Control.

Prior to Birth Control families had 8 children and poverty abounded.

Africa has a huge population living in a continent that is unable to support those numbers in terms of resources, hence the reason there is so much unrest, with people fighting for a greater share of limited resources.

Solution: Dont give them any help that will allow them to continue reproducing, remove the Catholic Church from Africa who are actively encouraging families not to use any contraception/Protection causing a massive outbreak of HIV and STM's, and a birth explosion.

Secondly, kick the influences of the US out of Africa. The US do not make good tourists, and they make even worse business partners.

Where did this lot come from?

The UK has been in relative decline since WWI; the 1960s saw nothing to reverse that.

Did Africans have small families before the Catholic Church went in there? (Where did all the slaves come from?)

What has happened to Zimbabwe and SA since ancestral Westerners were kicked out of power there?

[Qetesuesi]

Sounds live a bona-fide science programme to me.

Excellent witty comment - the sheeple still believe the myth that all scientists are ipso facto 'neutral'. They're human and biased like the rest of us.

[Scunnered]

See you all again in 6 months

I've made a resolution about that.

I think the way to deal with future threads on this subject would be to dig out all the previous ones and bump them to the top. That way the moderators should get fed up and will either move them elsewhere or merge them all into one huge pile of toxic garbage.

[Kurt Barlow]

Well, at the end of all that (as predicted) there is no conclusive evidence provided either way.

We have had:

6 pages of discussion about whether AIDS is real

2 pages about Vikings

3 pages about whether grapes can be grown on Hadrian's wall.

Some of the better posts from this thread are:

Very good/interesting post by LiveinHope (although unreferenced and with no particular conclusion – presumably in the MMGW camp)

Linky

Interesting graph from CCC showing a history of world temperature (although unreferenced).

Linky

Links from Kurt about the possible effects of ocean Ph on sea life (referenced). (not strictly part of the MMGW argument but an interesting ecological aside)Linky

See you all again in 6 months

Arguably its one of the most significant outcomes of an enriched CO2 atmosphere - which results in increased amounts of co2 dissolving in sea water. If the acidity of water reaches a point where invertebrates cannot form calcified shells then the whole marine food chain will crash.

There is already some evidence that more sensitive species are struggling

Remove 60-80 million tonnes of marine food from the world account and see what happens

Edited December 29, 2008 by Kurt Barlow

[bogbrush]

Private Frazer & Corporal Jones all rolled up into one.

[Kurt Barlow]

Private Frazer & Corporal Jones all rolled up into one.

You don't understand the issues so you mock - classic tactic of the ignorant.

You would of taken the same approach during the 1950's and 60's over the clean air Act debate, in the 1970's over the acid rain issue, or the ozone depletion issue that was recognised and acted upon in the 1980's.

Thank god even our politicians have better foresight than you.