Papitogrande Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Perhaps no one is interested in this as no topics have been started that I can see. Just wondered if anyone had any views? Personally I thought when he was convicted that it was an obvious fit-up. Wheel in the local nutter as the public want a result, get the newspapers to paint the picture of celeb obsessed stalker. I also know that a few of my friends thought exactly the same, not thought actually - we knew, there didn't seem room for doubt. Whilst 'justice' has now been done and the broken shell of an already pathetic figure can live out his (short) life in legal freedom (he will only be imprisoned by media + public interest). I have to say that a foul smell lingers over this case, how can we trust a police force that's dumb enough to shoot a man for wearing a big coat and looking foreign and twisted enough to deliberately fit up a retard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ayatollah Buggeri Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 I think he probably did it. But 'probably' is the important word - I also agree with the retrial jury that the evidence against him was not comprehensive enough to preclude reasonable doubt, and therefore I'd also have voted to acquit him. The facts of the case are this: 1. He was obsessed with celebrities in general and female broadcasters in particular. 2. He was obsessed with guns and had previously used them. 3. He was in roughly the right place at the right time. 4. He was clearly mentally ill in a way which might predispose him to do this. 5. He had an extensive criminal record, some of it for violent offences, prior to the Dando murder. 6. Exhaustive enquiries failed to identify anyone else with a motive or the means for shooting her. As against which... 7. The prosecution failed to show how he could have got hold of the murder weapon (not something that could easily have been done, post-Hungerford and Dunblane). 8. The forensic evidence was inconclusive. My gut feeling is that poor detective work failed to find the answer to 7 - that when they first arrested George, the circumstantial evidence was so strong that they thought they didn't need to try very hard. As they finally discovered, that's not good enough for a conviction for a crime of this magnitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashedOutAndBurned Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 If you're the local wierdo, have history, or just come across as a bit odd when questioned the police will likely stitch you up. Too many cases are based on forensics as jurors will take them at face value when they could be contaminated, inaccurate, or just forged by plod. This means jurors suspend their metal faculties when asking 'is it really likely hat some oddball who barely knows the time of day could pull off a major crime'? And does the police's version of events really read like something that may have happened or does it sound utterly far fetched? Just move a couple of hairs from one exhibit to another and you can create any daft story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ayatollah Buggeri Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 His obsession with female celebrities and firearms, plus his prior, relevant criminal record and the fact that he had no alibi makes it more than just a case of pulling in the local weirdo on the offchance. I agree with you up to a point on the forensic evidence issue, though here it was a case of reading too much into it rather than outright falsification. But the prosecution failed to pin the murder on him to even the vicinity of a reasonable doubt, let alone beyond it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Stromba Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 His obsession with female celebrities and firearms, plus his prior, relevant criminal record and the fact that he had no alibi makes it more than just a case of pulling in the local weirdo on the offchance. I agree with you up to a point on the forensic evidence issue, though here it was a case of reading too much into it rather than outright falsification.But the prosecution failed to pin the murder on him to even the vicinity of a reasonable doubt, let alone beyond it. From what ive seen the guy couldnt tie his shoe laces let alone kill someone with a close range shot to the head, in broad daylight with no witnesses. This was the work of the security services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Abramovitch Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 What a despicable quote by this imbecile of a lawyer Hilary Bradfield. What about the regrets for "banging up" an innocent man. Join me in reporting this twerp to the Law Society With idiot quotes like this it is no wonder her employers are affectionately known as the "Clown Prosecution Service" Crown Prosecution Service lawyer Hilary Bradfield The Crown Prosecution Service is disappointed with the acquittal of Barry George. I am satisfied, however, that this was a correct case to bring. At no time during the long history of this case has the prosecution been criticised. The job of the Crown Prosecution Service is to review cases, to seek to put cases before the court where there is a realistic prospect of a conviction where the jury could convict. Inevitably there will be cases where the jury decide for whatever reason that there is insufficient evidence for them to decide that it has reached the standard required by the English criminal courts. It would be quite wrong of the Crown Prosecution Service to only prosecute those cases where we were certain of a conviction, and the public would not be getting the service they look for from us if we did that. I would like to thank all of the witnesses who came to court to give evidence, some for the first and some for the second time. My sympathy goes out to the family of Jill Dando. This verdict will not bring finality which they must be seeking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KingCharles1st Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Jill Dando was going to come out that she had previously been in a hot lesbian relationship with Princess Di, and the Royals wanted her silenced.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Jill Dando was going to come out that she had previously been in a hot lesbian relationship with Princess Di, and the Royals wanted her silenced.... Did you read that in the Express? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KingCharles1st Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Did you read that in the Express? Paul Burrell told me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 From what ive seen the guy couldnt tie his shoe laces let alone kill someone with a close range shot to the head, in broad daylight with no witnesses. This was the work of the security services. Or have had the skills to convert a blank firer into a working gun , which is complicated, and even if you suceed you can't use actual bullets, you have to use blanks with plugs in the end , which at best only makes them into musket type weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juvenal Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 How do we feel about the fact that Barry George volunteered in the N of the W today that he was stalking another woman on the day Jill Dando was killed. Is this guy safe to be on the streets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattley Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Perhaps no one is interested in this as no topics have been started that I can see. Just wondered if anyone had any views?Personally I thought when he was convicted that it was an obvious fit-up. Wheel in the local nutter as the public want a result, get the newspapers to paint the picture of celeb obsessed stalker. I also know that a few of my friends thought exactly the same, not thought actually - we knew, there didn't seem room for doubt. Agree completley, the police don't look good here, the CPS look pathetic. Not good all round. how can we trust a police force that's dumb enough to shoot a man for wearing a big coat and looking foreign and twisted enough to deliberately fit up a retard. Jean Charles de Menezes case wasn't so dumb. He was challenged and being here illigally he made the very unfortunate choice of running into the underground at a time when that really was not a good call. Over reaction possibly with hindsight but not in the same class of police stupidity. It's the same with the Colin Stagg case. IMO PCJ should be leveled against police officers who deliver this sort of curcumstantial rubbish to the CPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattley Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 How do we feel about the fact that Barry George volunteered in the N of the W today that he was stalking another woman on the day Jill Dando was killed. Is this guy safe to be on the streets? NotW are notorious for out bidding 'rival' shit sheets, selectivly quoting/manupulating interviews/just printing any old shit, and then not paying. As for him being safe on the street I have to say, untill he's charged with something credibly then yes. Sadly it would seem that despite having a low IQ he also has no competent advice or support. I really hope that any compensation comes with advise on how to best use it given his obvious needs, but I suspect the poor bloke will be fleeced of it and left alone in a basment flat just as he was when all this started for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Agree completley, the police don't look good here, the CPS look pathetic. Not good all round.Jean Charles de Menezes case wasn't so dumb. He was challenged and being here illigally he made the very unfortunate choice of running into the underground at a time when that really was not a good call. Over reaction possibly with hindsight but not in the same class of police stupidity. It's the same with the Colin Stagg case. IMO PCJ should be leveled against police officers who deliver this sort of curcumstantial rubbish to the CPS. Thats a lie and you know it, Jean Charles didn't run , he was seen to pick up a news paper walk down the escalator and sit down, police then ran after him held him down and executed him. Menezes entered the Tube station at about 10:00 a.m., stopping to pick up a free Metro newspaper. He used his Oyster card to pay the fare, walked through the barriers, and descended the escalator slowly. He then ran across the platform to board the newly-arrived train. Menezes boarded the train and found one of the first available seats. Three surveillance officers, codenamed Hotel 1, Hotel 3 and Hotel 9, followed Menezes onto the train. According to Hotel 3, Menezes sat down with a glass panel to his right about two seats in. Hotel 3 then took a seat on the left with about two or three passengers between Menezes and himself. When the firearms officers arrived on the platform, Hotel 3 moved to the door, blocked it from closing with his left foot, and shouted 'He's here!' to identify the suspect's location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 It's the same with the Colin Stagg case. IMO PCJ should be leveled against police officers who deliver this sort of curcumstantial rubbish to the CPS. The Stagg case was disgusting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Nickell Using the pseudonym "Lizzie James" an undercover policewoman from SO10 (then the Metropolitan Police's Special Operations Group) contacted Stagg, posing as a friend of a female with whom he used to be in contact via a lonely-hearts column. Over a period of five months she then attempted to obtain information from him by feigning a romantic interest, meeting with him, speaking with him on the telephone and exchanging letters containing sexual fantasies. During a meeting in Hyde Park, they spoke about the Nickell murder, but Stagg later claimed that he had only played along with the topic because he wanted to pursue the romance[3]. Britton later said he disagreed with use of the fantasy-filled letters and knew nothing of them until after they had been sent[4]. "Lizzie" won Stagg's confidence and drew out his violent fantasies, but Stagg did not admit to the murder. Police released a taped conversation between "Lizzie" and Stagg in which "Lizzie" claimed to enjoy hurting people, to which Stagg mumbled: "Please explain, as I live a quiet life. If I have disappointed you, please don't dump me. Nothing like this has happened to me before." When "Lizzie" went on to say "If only you had done the Wimbledon Common murder, if only you had killed her, it would be all right," Stagg replied: "I'm terribly sorry, but I haven't."[5] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheer Heart Attack Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Pick on the Queen/Freddie Mercury fan and you have a watertight case. Absolutely disgusting. I remember telling my gf of the time it was a fit up. I also think that Ian Huntley is probably innocent. However, he is a complete scumbag based on his history so I can't get too upset about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 6. Exhaustive enquiries failed to identify anyone else with a motive or the means for shooting her. But the BBC received a call the next day claiming that it had been done in retaliation for the NATO bombing of a TV station in Belgrade. Was this line of enquiry too sensitive for the police? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ayatollah Buggeri Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 They also received calls from people claiming to be Islamic fundamentalists and saying that they abducted Maddie. Furthermore, if Dando was murdered by Bosnian Serb separatists seeking publicity for their cause, you'd have expected them to publicise their claim to have shot her rather more thoroughly than they did. I'm not suggesting that conspiracy theories never have anything in them or to be an expert on this case, but from what I remember it struck me as typical of the sort of shoddy policing that resulted in several IRA murderers being set free on appeal in the '80s - they thought that the circumstantial evidence would be good enough for a jury and didn't bother doing the job properly. I admit that my belief is no more than a hunch, though - based on the fact that the circumstantial evidence is pretty strong, plus the absence of anyone else even remotely in the frame. If she had had a former boyfriend with criminal links, or had got involved in dodgy business dealings or anything like that, the meeja would have found out about it even if the police hadn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 The really worrying thing in this case isn't the police (useless fit up merchants as always) the prosecutor (paid to put the best case forward possible so just doing job) the defending lawyer (paid to make it look like there is justice when there isn't, real job to make system look good as it ******s the majority of people who go anywhere near it over) and no problem with the judge (usually elderly sadist with delusions of grandeur.) No. The real problem is with the Jury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobajobbob Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Whether he was guilty or innocent of this crime given his record it is hard to feel too bad about his stay in clink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepers Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 I dont know if George did it - It would not surprise me given his track record and circumstantial evidence Indeed one possible motive by George or by A.N Other could be jealousy as she was soon to be married But there seems to be no conclusive evidence either way (hence he is now free) However soon after the murder I was expecting they would announce it was done by a hit-man One of the main reasons is I remember a tv interview with an ex-con called McVicker who said he thought that was the case due to the style of the 'execution' and using a low velocity charge At the time and with his background I thought that he should know If that's the case it could also put criminal revenge or a Bosnian terror link in the frame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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