Middle Class Exit

[Bluelady]

Great, can we all go and live there then?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Please do - we'll have a whip round to help with your fare if you like.

[zzg113]

I'd like to see people earning £100k or more taxed at 50%

So you'll be voting Lib Dem in the coming election BL? (the above is one of their policies)

[Bluelady]

Yes, I did know that, zz - and frankly how I vote is none of your business.

[non-FTBer]

Taxes might be higher in some EU countries, but what I want isn't necessarily no taxes at all, or even low taxes. I just want to feel that I get value for money out of paying taxes.

As it stands in the Uk, it looks like I could quit my job. Do odd jobs on the side cash in hand and fleece the benefits system and not be much worse off than I am now. Now wheres the sense in that?? :angry: :angry: :angry:

[mhifoe]

There are more errors in this than there are words. No one pays 40% income tax and 10% NI on the same money -- the 40% tax kicks in well above the NI threshold. The top marginal rate that anyone pays is 41%

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What about employers NI contributions?

The government may like to pretend it isn't a tax on income but it is.

Low rate:

Income tax: 22%

employee NI: 11%

employer NI: 13%

Total: 46%

High rate:

Income tax: 40%

employee NI: 1%

employer NI: 13%

Total: 54%

[zzg113]

how I vote is none of your business.

Nor of any significance or interest whatsoever. Just another ageing babyboomer voting for policies which serve her own self-interest.

[Guest The dude]

So you'll be voting Lib Dem in the coming election BL? (the above is one of their policies)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All the main parties are unappealing to me. However, the Lib Dems will definately get my vote this time. They seem the best of a bad bunch. Mind you, where I live, Cheshire, it pretty much always goes Tory.

[Lochy]

All the main parties are unappealing to me.  However, the Lib Dems will definately get my vote this time. They seem the best of a bad bunch.  Mind you, where I live, Cheshire, it pretty much always goes Tory. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would vote for the Lib Dems if it wasn't for their local income tax idea which would nearly triple my council tax.

[Clueless]

But, of course, they have public services that work in France.

When they're not on strike, which seems to be most of the time

[Bluelady]

Nor of any significance or interest whatsoever. Just another ageing babyboomer voting for policies which serve her own self-interest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How is this serving my self interest? What do I have to gain from it?

[dogbox]

Why does it matter whether there are any Asians in her class before teaching about Diwali? I thought the whole point of education was to broaden peoples' horizons, including their understanding of other people's cultures and religions. I was once invited into a class room in Thailand to explain to a group of school children about Christian festivals, such as Easter and Christmas. There weren't any Christian kids sitting amongst the Buddhist kids, as far as I am aware.

Its the creeping all pervasive political correctness constantly chipping away at our own natural ancient way of life that niggles and erks.

I gave u but 1 of hundreds of race related topics the trainee nursery teacher is expected to put in place. At the same time it is absolutely clear to her that Anglo Saxon / Christian / English customs / festivals are to be minimised.

Every day last week and yesterday the BBC revelled in one race story or another - totally ott. They are obsessed.

Have u seen the racial and disabled individuals represented on CBB'S 'Balamorie' programme? A tiny Hebridean island with a mix similar to Birmingham central. Totally TT social engineering.

In the end this constant cultural nibbleing is causing resentment.

I have been all over the world and love seeing other peoples / cultures, but that doesnt mean I have to like the UK LIBERAL OBSESSION WITH UNDER - PLAYING OUR OWN CULTURE, ACHIEVEMENTS AND WAYS.

The social engineering has delivered the opposite of integration. Instead peoples are carrying on in thier own little bubbles. Thats why you virtually never see / hear any Greeks, Indians on 'Who Wants To Be A Millionaire' or BBC Radio 4 quizzes / debates.

What we need is a common cultural consensus.

Liberals like you are afraid to confront truths. Its so easy to be a liberal - you tend to not offend. Its far harder to speak the truth.

20 years ago, I said Bob Geldoffs focus was all wrong. I said that African leaders are too corrupt and had to be top of the list to tackle in a meaningful way. I said aid should be highly targeted and not under the control of officials. A liberal told me I was reactionary, racist and ignorant. In fact I was correct and if those concerned with African poverty had listened to me 20 years ago, the situation would now be far better. Truth is hard but works.

[dogbox]

Interesting programme last night on Channel 4: "Let 'Em All In".  The thesis was that stringent immigration controls are self-defeating as most migrant workers would prefer to return to their country of origin once they had built up some capital. 

Liberal consensus is that migrants bring us wealth. In fact many simply earn from the UK money pool then 'send home'. Hmmm real benefit that one.

I used to work with a Sri Lankan. She used to say 'Im as British as you' when it suited. However, she planned to retire 'back home' taking her wealth with her. So if she was as 'Brittish as me' why bleat on about 'retiring to home'.

[dogbox]

All the main parties are unappealing to me.  However, the Lib Dems will definately get my vote this time.

The chavs and cash economy types cant wait for Lib Dems to cancel Council Tax in favour of a local income Tax. So the cash in hand plumber / driveway layer will pay even less in Tax than the teacher who earns 3 x less yet they live in the same street???.

[Marina]

The chavs and cash economy types cant wait for Lib Dems to cancel Council Tax in favour of a local income Tax. So the cash in hand plumber / driveway layer will pay even less in Tax than the teacher who earns 3 x less yet they live in the same street???.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Funny, as long as Dogbox keeps off the subject of property, he talks a geat deal of sense.

[Marina]

All the main parties are unappealing to me.  However, the Lib Dems will definately get my vote this time. They seem the best of a bad bunch.  Mind you, where I live, Cheshire, it pretty much always goes Tory. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree all the main partites are unappealing. But, for me, they are the worst of a bad bunch. You know nothing will get any better under them. They don't seem to have the ****** to actually do or change anything. The only thing you can guarantee is higher tax under them.

So, sadly, my vote will be cast on the basis of

Tory - w@nkers

Labour - bigger w@nkers

LibDems - biggest w@nkers

Greens - ginormous w@nkers - not because of their Green policies (good) but because they want ever poor, oppressed person in the world to live here.

UKIP - can't bring myself to write anything about them - if they got in and took us out of the EEC - the dream of millions of people to live somewhere other than this dump would go out the window. No matter how much the French might hate us, they can't stop us moving there at the moment.

[zorn]

I agree all the main partites are unappealing. But, for me, they are the worst of a bad bunch. You know nothing will get any better under them. They don't seem to have the ****** to actually do or change anything. The only thing you can guarantee is higher tax under them.

So, sadly, my vote will be cast on the basis of

Tory - w@nkers

Labour - bigger w@nkers

LibDems - biggest w@nkers

Greens - ginormous w@nkers - not because of their Green policies (good) but because they want ever poor, oppressed person in the world to live here.

UKIP - can't bring myself to write anything about them - if they got in and took us out of the EEC - the dream of millions of people to live somewhere other than this dump would go out the window. No matter how much the French might hate us, they can't stop us moving there at the moment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But taxes aren't going up. Tax as a proportion of GDP now is 37.1%. Before Labour came to power, it was 36.7%. It's fluctuated a bit around 37% for decades. They're being moved around a bit -- local taxation and income tax are taking less, so some indirect taxes are increasing, but overall the tax burden is staying remarkably constant.

[Bluelady]

But taxes aren't going up. Tax as a proportion of GDP now is 37.1%. Before Labour came to power, it was 36.7%. It's fluctuated a bit around 37% for decades. They're being moved around a bit -- local taxation and income tax are taking less, so some indirect taxes are increasing, but overall the tax burden is staying remarkably constant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You'll never convince this lot with facts and commonsense.

[Timmy Manson]

I'd like to see people earning £100k or more taxed at 50% and I'd like to see any tax credit of any kind removed from families with an income over £30k, that would do nicely.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you'd exlude the middle classes who put 80% of the taxes into the system from benefitting from it?

You would then put two fingers up to the 416,000 people who earn >£100k PAYE and lead our industries.

You were around in the 70's you remember the brain drain and what it did to the competativeness of the UK. Decapitating British Industry would loose alot more tax long term that the £10-40m approx that you would gain from what is essentially a spite tax.

HIGH TAXES HARM ECONOMIES AND IN TURN LOWER THE TOTAL TAX REVENUES

repeat after me....

HIGH TAXES HARM ECONOMIES AND IN TURN LOWER THE TOTAL TAX REVENUES

HIGH TAXES HARM ECONOMIES AND IN TURN LOWER THE TOTAL TAX REVENUES

HIGH TAXES HARM ECONOMIES AND IN TURN LOWER THE TOTAL TAX REVENUES

Do you understand?

60% of 100 is less that 40% of 500.

If you shrink the economy through too high taxation you will receive less. High earners will leave the UK and take there companies with them.

[dogbox]

I agree all the main partites are unappealing. But, for me, they are the worst of a bad bunch. You know nothing will get any better under them. They don't seem to have the ****** to actually do or change anything. The only thing you can guarantee is higher tax under them.

So, sadly, my vote will be cast on the basis of

Tory - w@nkers

Labour - bigger w@nkers

LibDems - biggest w@nkers

Greens - ginormous w@nkers - not because of their Green policies (good) but because they want ever poor, oppressed person in the world to live here.

UKIP - can't bring myself to write anything about them - if they got in and took us out of the EEC - the dream of millions of people to live somewhere other than this dump would go out the window. No matter how much the French might hate us, they can't stop us moving there at the moment.

The worst thing that the Tories can do is win the next election. Thats because there are uncertain economic times ahead so if Tories win they would cop all the blame.

Best to console oneself with the knowledge that Labours win will proove and hot ugly potato.

I want a hybrid between the Greens and Right Wing Neo - Cons to emerge. That is a 'Britain is now closed' policy linked with a mass scrapping of regulation, benefits and PC Human rights, coupled with total care for our one and only tiny enviroment - unique in all the universe so worth taking very good care of. All the benefit scroungers could work a few hours a day caring for and enhancing the enviroment. What a vote winning message.

[Marina]

Please do - we'll have a whip round to help with your fare if you like.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You'll be sorry when I'm gone - because when I go that will be another 4 normal, decent law-abiding people gone. You might not agree with my views but you would have no cause to complain if you lived next to me. I am considerate to my neighbours and look after my environment. If my neighbours have friends round in the summer and are in their garden, I get my kids to keep the noise down so other people can enjoy their afternoon.

If you could say the same about everybody, I'd stay.

[zorn]

The worst thing that the Tories can do is win the next election. Thats because there are uncertain economic times ahead so if Tories win they would cop all the blame.

Best to console oneself with the knowledge that Labours win will proove and hot ugly potato.

I want a hybrid between the Greens and Right Wing Neo - Cons to emerge. That is a 'Britain is now closed' policy linked with a mass scrapping of regulation, benefits and PC Human rights, coupled with total care for our one and only tiny enviroment - unique in all the universe so worth taking very good care of. All the benefit scroungers could work a few hours a day caring for and enhancing the enviroment. What a vote winning message.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can I see if I've got this correct. You want a mass scrapping of regulations except for a mass tightening up of the ones that you like, such as immigration regulations and environmental regulations. You want to scrap benefits while simultaneously getting people claiming the benefits you've just scrapped to work "enhancing the environment". You don't believe in human rights, except of course for your right to buy a nice house in a nice area at a price you can afford. I think you might have a few tiny inconsistencies in your position.

[zzg113]

You'll never convince this lot with facts and commonsense

How would you know that BL? You've never employed either (in your stand-offish and intemperate posts on this forum).

[Marina]

But taxes aren't going up. Tax as a proportion of GDP now is 37.1%. Before Labour came to power, it was 36.7%. It's fluctuated a bit around 37% for decades. They're being moved around a bit -- local taxation and income tax are taking less, so some indirect taxes are increasing, but overall the tax burden is staying remarkably constant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unlike you I can't be bothered to work out the fine detail of personal allowances etc etc. One of the things Gordon Brown has done is make the whole system so complex no-one can work it out.

I am not remotely interested in tax as a proportion of GDP. I am interested in the tax I pay. I know how much tax I pay. I know that almost every time I spend money I pay tax. I know that if I buy food and it is zero rated the building housing the food is taxed. The business that sold it to me is taxed. The person who served it to me is taxed.

I tax my car. I insure my car. I pay tax on the insurance. I put petrol in the tank - 75% tax. Likewise my wife's car. I have a pint - lots of tax. If I were stupid enough to smoke - lots of tax. If I earn good money and operate within the PAYE system lots of tax.

I mentioned sorting someone's affairs out above. The husband was on 50k. His take home was a few quid short of £2500 a month. That's a straight 40% on his earnings - he had a small company car - more tax. As I say, plus the petrol and the VAT on everything he spent. Must head up towards 60% of his earnings. The proportion of GDP figure hides the fact that an awful lot of people don't pay tax - I pay it for them - that's why mine is so high. I'd love it if the total take on my earnings was 37% - happy as Larry I'd be.

[zzg113]

he had a small company car - more tax

No-one's forcing him to have a company car.

[Marina]

You'll never convince this lot with facts and commonsense. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, because you never talk any. The fact is I pay a hell of a lot more than 37% of my income in total tax take. That figure as a proportion of GDP is rubbish - all that shows is how many people don't pay tax. I'm paying a lot more in tax to make up for all the dossers and swindlers that don't pay any - like the 2 million incorrectly on incapacity benefit.