Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 http://www.fool.co.uk/news/property-home/m...uooartrf1010001 Earlier this week, I was given the inside story on what's happening in the UK mortgage market -- and I have to say that it looks far from pretty! By chance, I happened to meet a chap who has worked in the mortgage industry for more than fifteen years. At present, he works for a leading provider of subprime mortgages (home loans given to people with tarnished credit histories). His employer lends directly to members of the public and via mortgage brokers. Thus, he sees the full picture of how the subprime market is reacting to the ongoing seizure in worldwide credit markets, alias the ‘credit crunch'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckmojo Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 good article. It makes you think to know that we'd been talking about these things on the forum for a long time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldfinger Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Indeed, a very interesting and important article. The UK property market will turn into a flaming turd sooner rather than later. Shortly afterwards, the subprime lending/banking massacre made in UK will hit home. This is when UK lenders will enter REAL trouble. At the moment it is still all volatility fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest An Bearin Bui Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 http://www.fool.co.uk/news/property-home/m...uooartrf1010001Earlier this week, I was given the inside story on what's happening in the UK mortgage market -- and I have to say that it looks far from pretty! By chance, I happened to meet a chap who has worked in the mortgage industry for more than fifteen years. At present, he works for a leading provider of subprime mortgages (home loans given to people with tarnished credit histories). His employer lends directly to members of the public and via mortgage brokers. Thus, he sees the full picture of how the subprime market is reacting to the ongoing seizure in worldwide credit markets, alias the ‘credit crunch'. I hope this is true as the 100%+ interest only 40 year mortgages had to stop sometime for the sake of people's grip on reality if nothing else - only problem is that I know anecdotally of people who have still been able to get unsecured personal loans approved very easily in the last couple of weeks and that RBS, for example, currently claim they will offer potential customers £1000 if they can't match the customer's current mortgage deal. RBS at least seem pretty desperate for loan business and still seem to have the credit taps on full blast. I also still see some dodgy deals in mortgage lenders' windows e.g. 4.95% BTL mortgage fixed for 2 years etc. It's puzzling to me as I had thought that deals like this would have been withdrawn by now given the credit crunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthe~ Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Indeed, a very interesting and important article. The UK property market will turn into a flaming turd sooner rather than later. Shortly afterwards, the subprime lending/banking massacre made in UK will hit home. This is when UK lenders will enter REAL trouble. At the moment it is still all volatility fun. I can bear witness to a few of those sub prime downturns myself. Last night I went for a drink with a few friends at the sp lender I worked at for 6 months, and they are a gloomy lot. Most of them have moved onto other SP lenders, tied to Investment banks. The IT director of one told me that their focus was no longer New Business, but arrears and repossessions. A few of them are no longer working in the Mortgage section and have moved to other areas of the bank(s). Some of them are no longer working at all. I also spoke to someone of a similar age, maybe slightly older than me who has spent all his career in IT for mortgage companies and when I told him it was like '89 only much much worse, he didn't seem compelled to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selling up Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Only problem is that I know anecdotally of people who have still been able to get unsecured personal loans approved very easily in the last couple of weeks and that RBS, for example, currently claim they will offer potential customers £1000 if they can't match the customer's current mortgage deal. Interesting to know, but remember we are just 2-3 months into a "crunch" that the article thinks not unlikely to last till 2009. Things will get worse yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldfinger Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 (edited) I can bear witness to a few of those sub prime downturns myself.Last night I went for a drink with a few friends at the sp lender I worked at for 6 months, and they are a gloomy lot. Most of them have moved onto other SP lenders, tied to Investment banks. The IT director of one told me that their focus was no longer New Business, but arrears and repossessions. A few of them are no longer working in the Mortgage section and have moved to other areas of the bank(s). Some of them are no longer working at all. I also spoke to someone of a similar age, maybe slightly older than me who has spent all his career in IT for mortgage companies and when I told him it was like '89 only much much worse, he didn't seem compelled to disagree. Always good to read some real life evidence. Edited November 9, 2007 by Goldfinger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorJ Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Interesting to know, but remember we are just 2-3 months into a "crunch" that the article thinks not unlikely to last till 2009. Things will get worse yet. true. I was starting to believe that things had blown over. I now think that we are just having a slow start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Lorne Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 ...."The bad news is that, away from the prime mainstream lenders on the high street, the mortgage market faces a grave crisis. Indeed, my contact warned that this was the worst environment he'd encountered in 1½ decades in the business. What's more, his veteran colleagues -- with thirty or forty years' experience behind them -- echoed his view." ...the guys in the business for 30 to 40 years will not have seen this mess as 'sub prime' lending is something that has only grown up over the last few years...however together with self certs, BTLs and the overall lax lending approach, there is a UK, Armageddon about to hit for all and already is ...in a big way....hold on tight .....!.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the end is a bit nigher Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 The IT director of one told me that their focus was no longer New Business, but arrears and repossessions. I can second that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric pebble Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 (edited) ...."The bad news is that, away from the prime mainstream lenders on the high street, the mortgage market faces a grave crisis. Indeed, my contact warned that this was the worst environment he'd encountered in 1½ decades in the business. What's more, his veteran colleagues -- with thirty or forty years' experience behind them -- echoed his view."...the guys in the business for 30 to 40 years will not have seen this mess as 'sub prime' lending is something that has only grown up over the last few years...however together with self certs, BTLs and the overall lax lending approach, there is a UK, Armageddon about to hit for all and already is ...in a big way....hold on tight .....!.. Is all this that surprising? After all --- those guys with 30-40 years experience would NOT have EVER seen anything like the frightening level of MORTGAGE FRAUD in their working lives prior to the last 10 years -- in which Mortgage Fraud has been ENCOURAGED and ACTIVELY PUSHED by the Lenders....... AND NOW -- THEY'RE PAYING THE PRICE!!! Simple really! Edited November 10, 2007 by eric pebble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric pebble Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 I can second that They deserve EVERYTHING that's coming....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthe~ Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 They deserve EVERYTHING that's coming....... It has occurred to me that concentrating on repo's might mean going back through the self cert mortgages and doing a bit of investigation. Of course, the ones they should be looking at are from a few years back, because those are the ones that they are most likely to get their money back on. That way, they can recover some money and be less in the smelly stuff. It shouldn't be too hard to find a few liars in the pack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy1967 Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 I can bear witness to a few of those sub prime downturns myself.Last night I went for a drink with a few friends at the sp lender I worked at for 6 months, and they are a gloomy lot. Most of them have moved onto other SP lenders, tied to Investment banks. The IT director of one told me that their focus was no longer New Business, but arrears and repossessions. A few of them are no longer working in the Mortgage section and have moved to other areas of the bank(s). Some of them are no longer working at all. I also spoke to someone of a similar age, maybe slightly older than me who has spent all his career in IT for mortgage companies and when I told him it was like '89 only much much worse, he didn't seem compelled to disagree. I had a similar kind off discussion last night, but the bull saw things going up and up and up, although he has seen his pension take a good hiding, the one thing i asked him to ask himself was, house prices had gone up over 300% in the last ten years, so why did he think they cant go down 40 to 60%, i left him to ponder and went home to me wife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slurms mackenzie Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 (edited) I can second that I can erm 'third'? that. Think about it, you need more money to lend out, the wholesale markets are dry, but you can pull in plenty of money simply by concentrating on repossesions then wheeeee ! the money can be lent out again, at a higher rate with lower LTVs (cos it's the market guvnor) I read on the fool in a different artice ( i think by stephenson not d'arcy) that during the early nineties most repossesions where done by people with second charges and sub primers (apparently). Edited November 10, 2007 by slurms mackenzie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartimandua51 Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 From the same site, have a look at http://www.fool.co.uk/news/property-home/2...erty-peril.aspx All that glisters is not gold, indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vicmac64 Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 I hope this is true as the 100%+ interest only 40 year mortgages had to stop sometime for the sake of people's grip on reality if nothing else - only problem is that I know anecdotally of people who have still been able to get unsecured personal loans approved very easily in the last couple of weeks and that RBS, for example, currently claim they will offer potential customers £1000 if they can't match the customer's current mortgage deal. RBS at least seem pretty desperate for loan business and still seem to have the credit taps on full blast. I also still see some dodgy deals in mortgage lenders' windows e.g. 4.95% BTL mortgage fixed for 2 years etc. It's puzzling to me as I had thought that deals like this would have been withdrawn by now given the credit crunch. Yes I agree - which is why this is not just a case of uncontrolled chaos - it is in fact a case of Treason perpetrated on a free people by their own government and financial system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzzzzzz Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 good article. It makes you think to know that we'd been talking about these things on the forum for a long time... Is it? I don't see any evidence supporting his assertions. Yet another damp squid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric pebble Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 I can bear witness to a few of those sub prime downturns myself.Last night I went for a drink with a few friends at the sp lender I worked at for 6 months, and they are a gloomy lot. Most of them have moved onto other SP lenders, tied to Investment banks. The IT director of one told me that their focus was no longer New Business, but arrears and repossessions. A few of them are no longer working in the Mortgage section and have moved to other areas of the bank(s). Some of them are no longer working at all. I also spoke to someone of a similar age, maybe slightly older than me who has spent all his career in IT for mortgage companies and when I told him it was like '89 only much much worse, he didn't seem compelled to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest happy? Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 Yet another damp squid. Aren't all squid damp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJohnP Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 Aren't all squid damp? Squib! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 Is it?I don't see any evidence supporting his assertions. Yet another damp squid. I have to agree,another one of those "I know a friend who" stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grime- skint wouldbe ftb Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 I hope this is true as the 100%+ interest only 40 year mortgages had to stop sometime for the sake of people's grip on reality if nothing else - only problem is that I know anecdotally of people who have still been able to get unsecured personal loans approved very easily in the last couple of weeks and that RBS, for example, currently claim they will offer potential customers £1000 if they can't match the customer's current mortgage deal. RBS at least seem pretty desperate for loan business and still seem to have the credit taps on full blast. I also still see some dodgy deals in mortgage lenders' windows e.g. 4.95% BTL mortgage fixed for 2 years etc. It's puzzling to me as I had thought that deals like this would have been withdrawn by now given the credit crunch. You can be sure of something, crazy sub prime selling is still going on in the UK. I know someone who earns £500 a month doing bar work. Just been approved for a £150,000 mortgage. I kid you not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slurms mackenzie Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 I have to agree,another one of those "I know a friend who" stories. That article may be, but aren't most articles. Take it from me, the article is an accurate reflection of what is happening in the sub prime market. I know through first hand experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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