And I Think To Myself, What A Wonderful World

[svag]

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=400883

[TwentyOneEleven]

Edited due to not enough s!!!

Edited March 14, 2007 by TwentyOneEleven

[OzzMosiz]

To be fair, if I was ever in the situation that it would benefit my kids by borrowing their savings to pay off a debt (and of course pay it back later) - I would!

mind you 250quid ??? Surely she should be able to pay that off in a month or two?

[feltsorryfor]

have you seen the sig of the third poster? YIKES!!!

Debt at highest 107k

Debt as of Nov 06 105.2k

Sorting debt thanks to DMP with Payplan 58 years

Proud to be dealing with my debts

Sun - Fri challenge budget £5 spent so far £24.73

Weight loss so far - 24 lbs (8 weeks)

[skhudy]

Not nice when you 1st think of it, but sometimes needs to be done. I was given a saving account book a while back with about £100 in it, looking back there were regular deposits when I was younger and some big withdrawals.

I didn't need it when I was young so I haven't missed anything, parents cleared what they needed, now have a business and properties, have I lost out? I think not

[Wad]

I have taught my kids to be as mean and tight fisted as me. My youngest asked if he could get his money box down just so he could count the money last night (yes really!). If I borowed it I fear he would notice and come after me when I was old and frail.

[Wonga Wallah]

Been there, done it, got the tee-shirt and still put the 2 little buggers through university.

Things are nearly always tight when you've got a young family. If you can't teach your kids to be flexible, solve problems by considering all possible solutions and still come up smiling, then what are you for, as a parent??

[tara747]

I couldn't resist adding my own opinion! Surprised by how strongly I feel about the birthday money.

If you can pay back the money to their savings accounts, then I guess it's your call.

My tuppence worth on the other points:

Spending tax credits/child benefit (mostly on the family anyway) - OK

Taking from children's birthday money - not OK

Being in debt through bum deal in life - I have sympathy

Being in debt because of not being able to control spending on consumer tat, holidays etc - no sympathy

Intending to pay off your own debts - good for you

Not intending to pay off your own debts - hanging's too good for you

Not cutting up cards now - why??

Best to cut up the cards...

[svag]

To be fair, if I was ever in the situation that it would benefit my kids by borrowing their savings to pay off a debt (and of course pay it back later) - I would!

mind you 250quid ??? Surely she should be able to pay that off in a month or two?

Well I often give my nephew money and I would be furious if I found out it was not passed to him, if bro and wife were that desperate for money I would be more than happy to contribute. But I suppose it is easier to steal from your child than admit to your family and friends that you need help.

[azogar]

have you seen the sig of the third poster? YIKES!!!

I noticed that too

58 years payment plan

F*** me how old are they?

what a cloud to have hanging over you

[Wonga Wallah]

But I suppose it is easier to steal from your child than admit to your family and friends that you need help.

Getting philosophical, it is only in the most recent years of "kids have rights" (but no responsibilities) that anyone would even use the phrase "stealing from your kids". Back in Victorian times, kids themselves were effectively property, and expected to contribute to their own housing and food by going down the mines / up chimneys. And why not! The concept of stealing from them did not exist.

If it its 'their' money, then they should be using it to look after themselves, shouldn't they? If they are entitled to their own money, they should be able to supplement it with loans, overdrafts and credit cards, government benefits and earned income, surely? But that is nonsense. We protect our children from the grasp of the financial services industry, just like we try to keep the wolf from the door. We are responsible for feeding, clothing and housing them. I have sympathy with the point that you gave it to the child, not the parent. But if you give it, you release control of it, otherwise you're just lending it.

Children are the responsibility of their parents. Rights and responsibility are, and quite rightly should be, joined. If the children are the responsibility of the parents, then the parents are responsible for the best use of their assets also. If the parents are not responsible, then just take the kids off them at birth, give the young'uns a council flat & let them grow up feral. Just don't live near them.

[Orbital]

I noticed that too

58 years payment plan

F*** me how old are they?

what a cloud to have hanging over you

I bet they had fun racking up the debt though !

wahey!

[svag]

Getting philosophical, it is only in the most recent years of "kids have rights" (but no responsibilities) that anyone would even use the phrase "stealing from your kids". Back in Victorian times, kids themselves were effectively property, and expected to contribute to their own housing and food by going down the mines / up chimneys. And why not! The concept of stealing from them did not exist.

If it its 'their' money, then they should be using it to look after themselves, shouldn't they? If they are entitled to their own money, they should be able to supplement it with loans, overdrafts and credit cards, government benefits and earned income, surely? But that is nonsense. We protect our children from the grasp of the financial services industry, just like we try to keep the wolf from the door. We are responsible for feeding, clothing and housing them. I have sympathy with the point that you gave it to the child, not the parent. But if you give it, you release control of it, otherwise you're just lending it.

Children are the responsibility of their parents. Rights and responsibility are, and quite rightly should be, joined. If the children are the responsibility of the parents, then the parents are responsible for the best use of their assets also. If the parents are not responsible, then just take the kids off them at birth, give the young'uns a council flat & let them grow up feral. Just don't live near them.

You obviously didn't watch Judge Judy a few weeks ago

[tara747]

Getting philosophical, it is only in the most recent years of "kids have rights" (but no responsibilities) that anyone would even use the phrase "stealing from your kids". Back in Victorian times, kids themselves were effectively property, and expected to contribute to their own housing and food by going down the mines / up chimneys. And why not! The concept of stealing from them did not exist.

If it its 'their' money, then they should be using it to look after themselves, shouldn't they? If they are entitled to their own money, they should be able to supplement it with loans, overdrafts and credit cards, government benefits and earned income, surely? But that is nonsense. We protect our children from the grasp of the financial services industry, just like we try to keep the wolf from the door. We are responsible for feeding, clothing and housing them. I have sympathy with the point that you gave it to the child, not the parent. But if you give it, you release control of it, otherwise you're just lending it.

Children are the responsibility of their parents. Rights and responsibility are, and quite rightly should be, joined. If the children are the responsibility of the parents, then the parents are responsible for the best use of their assets also. If the parents are not responsible, then just take the kids off them at birth, give the young'uns a council flat & let them grow up feral. Just don't live near them.

Seriously. I was talking about birthday money. If a child isn't entitled to keep its own birthday money, what have we come to???

I assume that most parents spend child benefit/tax credit money themselves, if they need it to supplement household income and feed/clothe their family. That's ok. The lucky ones are able to save it for them.

But birthday money! Come on.

When I was small, I got to spend it on a toy, up to a point - say £10-£20 (we're talking 15-20 years ago). If I got more, the rest went into my savings.

Edited March 14, 2007 by tara747

[Garry AKA Pod]

Proof if any were needed that child benefit is a complete waste of tax payers money. If parents are having to "borrow" money from their kids, then they clearly haven't really put their brains into first gear and apreciated why they are in reciept of tax credits and child benefit.

[chichi]

My mum used to borrow the contents of my money box to pay the milk man. I learnt quickly which school trips were too expensive to even ask about.

[azogar]

My mum used to borrow the contents of my money box to pay the milk man. I learnt quickly which school trips were too expensive to even ask about.

Just out of interest - on reflection, do you find that acceptable or not?

[DoctorJ]

debt with 29% interest compared to a 4% savings account. no brainer IMO. if it was a 5.9% loan then maybe the kids could keep their piggy bank. oh come on, they get my love what more do they want

[Wad]

Getting philosophical, it is only in the most recent years of "kids have rights" (but no responsibilities) that anyone would even use the phrase "stealing from your kids". Back in Victorian times, kids themselves were effectively property, and expected to contribute to their own housing and food by going down the mines / up chimneys. And why not!

Too right. When I was a kid I had herd of pigs to feed when I came home from school. I worked every day every weekend and every holiday for up to 12 hours a day in busy periods - hard physical work too. I effectively worked for my board and lodging in my parents house. It would do a lot of kids a lot of good to have to work.

My parents were not cruel but it was just accepted that was the way it was and a lot of my school friends did the same.

[House Or Home]

Looked at the signatures - fair play to every one of them who is proud to be dealing wth their debt. Shame they were allowed to get into that situation in the first place though

[DoctorJ]

Looked at the signatures - fair play to every one of them who is proud to be dealing wth their debt. Shame they were allowed to get into that situation in the first place though

Sod 'em - I bet they had some fun, bought an ipod or two, maybe a new car and had a cool holiday. Now they can pay the price. No sympathy here whatsoever.

[time_and_tide]

Sod 'em - I bet they had some fun, bought an ipod or two, maybe a new car and had a cool holiday. Now they can pay the price. No sympathy here whatsoever.

Normally I'd agree with you.

But somehow the image of this parent wracked with guilt and shame and so desperate for cash he/she has to stand in a cold dark kitchen at midnight and lever a knife into a piggy-bank, is so poignant I can only feel a pang of pity.

[tara747]

debt with 29% interest compared to a 4% savings account. no brainer IMO. if it was a 5.9% loan then maybe the kids could keep their piggy bank. oh come on, they get my love what more do they want

I agree that if she can pay it back, it makes sense to borrow it.

Looked at the signatures - fair play to every one of them who is proud to be dealing wth their debt. Shame they were allowed to get into that situation in the first place though

Allowed to???

I get offers of loans, CCs and what have you every day of the week. I don't take them up on it though! An adult who gets into debt needlessly has only themselves to blame!

Note that I say 'needlessly' - those who are in debt through bad luck in life do have my sympathy. See the difference?

Fair play to those who are dealing with their debts, but to those who have incurred said debt through spending what they don't have on consumer tat, hard cheese. Learn a lesson the hard way!

Sod 'em - I bet they had some fun, bought an ipod or two, maybe a new car and had a cool holiday. Now they can pay the price. No sympathy here whatsoever.

Hear hear.

Great to see the old avatar back too.

Edited March 15, 2007 by tara747

[REP013]

I think it is pi*s poor practice to "steal" your children's SAVINGS to pay for your own debt.

Grow up, take some responsibility and teach your children the same.

I say savings as child benefit, tax credits etc should go towards the cost of raising children but savings should be theirs and respected as such.

EDIT:

I feel compelled, I do not know why, to explain my stance on this.

When I was young my "parents" borrowed our savings which they never paid back in the way they borrowed e.g here is the money we borrowed.

25 years on and guess who they still borrow from?

I really do take the moral high ground on this one!

Edited March 15, 2007 by REP013

[chichi]

Just out of interest - on reflection, do you find that acceptable or not?

I didn't much mind really. I had just abouts everything a kid could need I think: toys, books, trees to climb, a dog.

I noticed when I was about 18 though and got access to my building society book that my sisters had saved more than I had. But I blew my savings then on a ticket to the US.

I do however always make sure I've got plenty of food in, so I guess that could easily be a result of having been aware that things were tight when I was a kid. I could analyse my fears of worrying about not having enough money in the bank back to that too I'm sure.