Casual Observer Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 On the contrary, I put in six years of hard graft doing A Levels and a degree, and now I'm worse off than if I'd left school with nothing. What is your degree in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enworb Posted August 4, 2006 Author Share Posted August 4, 2006 WHY ARE YOU HERE ON THIS SITE?! Can't you set one up called 'up up and away (with the fairies)' or something? Unless this is a cult, whereby i'd have to share the same beliefs, I can air my views (freely) just like any other forum on the web. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethel Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 What is your degree in? Business Management and Hotel Management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enworb Posted August 4, 2006 Author Share Posted August 4, 2006 Some good points Some of the comments posted yesterday really do show how detached from reality some of the bears are. Indeed, it actually concerns me that some of the posters are free to walk the streets ("death to financial advisors," etc). This detachment is precisely why so many have failed to predict the direction the market has taken. They scoffed when BTLers said they were "in it for the long term", and then were baffled that this set didn't rush to sell in 2005. They repeatedly said that "nobody could afford to get on the ladder," and ignored the fact that people were doing just that. The most ridiculous claim of all was that sentiment alone would crash the market; as though house prices would go into free fall with no external factors coming in to play. Fortunately, the bears will be protected from the impact of any recession. * Those around them may lose their jobs, but not them * Interest rates will rocket to 10 per cent and beyond, but this will make their mortgages thoroughly affordable (assuming they can get a loan in such circumstances) * Having spectacularly failed to make any sort of headway during an economic golden age, they will miraculously prosper once the cleansing recession has wiped away "the dross" from the economy Yes they do seem to stcik their heads in the sand until such times as IR's rising...but they've already missed the hpi increases. Wishing hardship on somebody else is bad enough but to see them hurt or killed is extreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Observer Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 (edited) , but it's a bit unfair that the £11k hairdresser managed to get a house straight away, just because the market happened to be at the bottom at that particular time. Life's unfair. When I was younger, working hard to build a career and struggling financially with a young family, the laziest person in our office, someone who never put in an ounce of effort, inherited enough money at age 32 to retire and buy a house that would cost over a million in today's money. It's just self-destructive to spend any time grieving about life's unfairnesses - it can eat away at you Edited August 4, 2006 by Casual Observer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enworb Posted August 4, 2006 Author Share Posted August 4, 2006 f#ck me - you come on this site with your poxy BTL in Slough (of all places ) and think you are warren soddin' buffett. go and screw yourself you pointless waste of DNA. You'd be very happy living in my poxy btl. I was born and bred in Slough and for me it's ideal. I can respect that you don't agree with me but how can I respect a bully hiding behind his computer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethel Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Life's unfair. When I was younger, working hard to build a career and struggling financially with a young family, the laziest person in our office, someone who never put in an ounce of effort, inherited enough money at age 32 to retire and buy a house that would cost over a million in today's money. It's just self-destructive to spend any time grieving about life's unfairnesses - it can eat away at you I totally agree. My parents have run a business for the last 20 years. They rarely take time off and just about scrape a living. Their employees get guaranteed minimum wage, they don't. Their employees get paid holiday, they don't. Meanwhile, there are council tenants on incapacity benefit up the road who also work cash-in-hand, take three foreign holidays a year and drive a brand new car. More to the point - my disabled brother and my uncle with terminal cancer know that life is unfair, too. Thus I don't ever go round wingeing about the unfairness of it all. Instead of wasting time on doing that, I put in a few more hours overtime a week and stash the extra income away in my deposit fund. But I joined this topic because cuckoo stated that there is "no point blaming "the market" or anyone else but yourself if you can't afford to buy a flat." I was only pointing out that it is actually far more luck than judgement. And clearly you agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enworb Posted August 4, 2006 Author Share Posted August 4, 2006 why are you so bitter then? eh?? Bitter, how did you come to that conclusion? I've been called a few things on this sight but never bitter How come old school friends of mine who left school at 16 and earn £11k can comfortably afford a two bedroom semi (because they bought at the right time), but after obtaining a degree and on a wage of £24k I can't even afford a bedsit? In what way is this my fault? We all know people that have little or no mortgages, or have large detached house that earn less than us. So what. They made a decision to buy and it paid off. They certainly would have difficult times during double figure IR's. You make it sound like everything was rosy when prices were low but IR's meant paying far more interest than capital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Observer Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 I was only pointing out that it is actually far more luck than judgement. And clearly you agree. Who knows? Some 16 year old school leaver may sense or see the benefit of buying a house at a particular time, without having the intelligence or education to articulate his reasoning. Don't they say that some of the best stock market traders have a street market nous, rather than a financial training? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest X-QUORK Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 (edited) Why so much mud slinging from the bulls? The truth is that we're all different shades of bear, bull or whatever. I don't believe that every bull out there is an evil 'Nicholas Van Hoegstraaten type', so please accept that not all bears are lazy SOBs who whine all day about the inequities of the world. Edited August 4, 2006 by X-QUORK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Observer Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 I don't believe that every bull out there is an evil 'Nicholas Van Hoegstraaten type', Some on here seem to though. Some think the older generation is evil for stealing money from the young. It's been said on this site many, many times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enworb Posted August 4, 2006 Author Share Posted August 4, 2006 I was only pointing out that it is actually far more luck than judgement. And clearly you agree. Yes luck is nice if and when it comes along but don't rely on it. I would say get off your backside and do something about it yourself but you are by saving. There will be plenty of occasions when someones ability to get onto the ladder has been possible only because of their judgement and hard work. Even bad luck won't stop them. Why so much mud slinging from the bulls? The truth is that we're all different shades of bear, bull or whatever. I don't believe that every bull out there is an evil 'Nicholas Van Hoegstraaten type', so please accept that not all bears are lazy SOBs who whine all day about the inequities of the world. Agree totally. Only 99% of bears are.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest X-QUORK Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Yes luck is nice if and when it comes along but don't rely on it. I would say get off your backside and do something about it yourself but you are by saving. There will be plenty of occasions when someones ability to get onto the ladder has been possible only because of their judgement and hard work. Even bad luck won't stop them. Do you agree that the decision to not buy property at peak price, but to rent and save is actually a good example of judgement and hard work, or if not hard work, not taking the easiest option? Maybe I'm reading you wrongly here, but you seem to imply that those of us who have made the judgement that property is overvalued are somehow passive, rather than those who would go ahead and buy a 2 bed flat for £250k who you see as proactive 'go-getters'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Observer Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Do you agree that the decision to not buy property at peak price, This is the 64 million dollar question though isn't it? You're making a judgement on the peak, which may turn out to be a poor one. And in 2-3 years' time you could be telling people who bought today that they were lucky. In fact you could wind the clock back 2-3 years and see that very thing happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamSpartacus Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 This is the 64 million dollar question though isn't it? Bloody hell - that's rampant inflation for you!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Observer Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Bloody hell - that's rampant inflation for you!!! Looks like we need a few more IR increases! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest X-QUORK Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 This is the 64 million dollar question though isn't it? You're making a judgement on the peak, which may turn out to be a poor one. And in 2-3 years' time you could be telling people who bought today that they were lucky. In fact you could wind the clock back 2-3 years and see that very thing happening. Good point CO, and you're right, it's a judgement call. I've put my money where my mouth is an STR'd last year when we wanted an extra room for our newborn. I'm reasonably confident that we'll be able to buy a place of our own again in 2-3 years at a much more reasonable price, but if I'm wrong I'll take it on the chin and we'll decide what to do then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monopoly Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 He doesn't need prices to fall, just for the return on his investments (minus the cost of renting) to be greater than the increase in price of the house he wants. Low HPI might be sufficient if he's invested wisely. He is a she..and like I said...we not that bothered really...it will come my way, sometime in the future. We are not ftb..we had a house in England which we sold with a very nice profit 3 years ago. We did live the last 10 years outside the country and we are used to renting, we just came back and want to settle down. We have a very good down payment in the bank and we will just wait and see what happens. Guys, don't stress yourself out....like they say in Hawaii...hang loose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enworb Posted August 4, 2006 Author Share Posted August 4, 2006 Do you agree that the decision to not buy property at peak price, but to rent and save is actually a good example of judgement and hard work, or if not hard work, not taking the easiest option? Maybe I'm reading you wrongly here, but you seem to imply that those of us who have made the judgement that property is overvalued are somehow passive, rather than those who would go ahead and buy a 2 bed flat for £250k who you see as proactive 'go-getters'? You've got me wrong. I'd never encourage someone spending a fortune on a new build flat. I've said that many times. It will depend on your location but I still see properties in my town bmv which need work doing to them which in my view is a good opportunity to get onto the ladder. If where you are prices have peaked yes you would be crazy to buy. My bullish views are not countrywide. But some of the bears consider a slight fall in prices in their location as the start ofa crash even though average prices are up significantly as an average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamSpartacus Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 He is a she.. Oops - sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledgehead Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 What a lot of these bears dont realise is that in a recession, credit and lending criteria tighten and they will be even less likely to be able to afford their own home, not more likely ! However inflation may be higher so the value of the absolute debt will be lower for those who already do own a home. What a lot of these bulls don't realise is the true distinction between bears and bulls in any asset class. I wonder whether Cuckoo could inform us of his opinion on this? Perhaps in properly exercising his grey matter in this regard he might well see the error of his assumptions and delete the above post .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plumbob Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 (edited) After yesterdays IR rise I can understand the bears elation. Even though I don't think it will cause a correction, they do so they should feel happy. But of course they aren't content. Now they've tasted a tiny piece of glee thinking that home owners will all sell up causing a hpc, they want more, they want more...much more. And so the latest wish is for a recession. Never mind that the £ is worth so much more everywhere else in the world. Or that their jobs are far safer now than they would be should there be a recession.All in all, very good for a vast majority of the UK population. Aren't they getting just a little too extreme in their bid to be homeowners yet they don't seem to appreciate (or admit) that others do and are doing so. Which is precisely why there will not be a hpc. No hpc. ? mmmm. I'll let you into a little secret shall I. Last week, a national builder with a site in my town/city realised why they were not selling their houses. Its because another national is selling theirs 30K cheaper for the similar. I know, they say, we'll drop ours 35K, that'll sort it. ooops. The rival dropped theirs by another 5k this week....Jeronimo...............(dont know if i spelt that right) Edited August 4, 2006 by plumbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlad1967 Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 A lot of you guys are going to miss the boat if you don't buy soon. So are you telling us that no one will ever buy property again? Ever? Think about what you've said here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Agree totally. Only 99% of bears are.......... i'm part of the 1% i tell my boyfriend not to get stressed out about how high house prices are. I would love to buy, and could have afforded 2 years ago but had 2 flats fall through and i lost £1500. I decided to save up again, to find out i was priced out of the market. Couldn't have bought previous to that as i didn't earn enough money and then was on a 2 year training course. I've had bad luck with timing but i'm not stressed about it. I just keep saving and have cheapish rent. I don't believe property is worth what people are asking, if i'm proven wrong...well i'm in trouble but if house prices go down i'm alright. Either way it's not the end of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enworb Posted August 4, 2006 Author Share Posted August 4, 2006 (edited) No hpc. ? mmmm. I'll let you into a little secret shall I. Last week, a national builder with a site in my town/city realised why they were not selling their houses. Its because another national is selling theirs 30K cheaper for the similar. I know, they say, we'll drop ours 35K, that'll sort it. ooops. The rival dropped theirs by another 5k this week....Jeronimo...............(dont know if i spelt that right) Yep, according to rightmove, Nottingham is down 13% over the last year. But Nottingham is only a very small part of the country. You may as well wait until prices bottom out there. Edited August 4, 2006 by enworb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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