Jason Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 I get the impression Gordon Brown has lost interest with the economy lately... He's desperate to become PM. Should he become PM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichM Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Yup, let him carry the can for the next 3-4 years, the joker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownbear Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 As one of the token Lefties on HPC, I would like to stick up for Gordon before he is castigated by everyone else. Firstly, if Gordon becomes PM, then TB will not be. After Iraq, ID cards, the eudcation bill, but especially Iraq, I will be glad to see the back of Mr Blair. In certain sections of the Labour Party there is a few that Gordon Brown represents us more than TB. Speaking for myself, and a number of other members I know, there is the hope that Gordon will govern in a more "progressive" manner. Labour has been at its most unpopular when it has aped failed Tory policies (see rail privatisation, cutting disability benefit, etc for examples). On the other hand, the Minimum Wage has been successfully introduced, and the most popular of Gordon's budgets was when he raised NI contributions. Now I don't happen to think that all is rosy in the economy (see Larry Elliot in today's Guardian), but i do think a dose of good old Keynesianism is a possible solution. Cheap credit, the decline in manufacturing, the emphasis on capital over production and industry are all issues that concerned me before Labour got in in 1997, and still concern me, as well as despresing me that Labour swallowed the Thatcherite economic lies hook, line and sinker. I happen to think that a house price crash would be a good thing for everyone (apart from some BTLers who shouldn't have been so greedy, and unfortunate FTBs who gave in to the pressure). I don't think it would necessarily harm the economy as a whole, which price levels are utterly divorced from already, and it need not herald political disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) Currently, I feel nothing is being done regarding the economic problems in the country. I think GB doesn't care about the ballooning public and private debt, and the poor productivity in this country. He's knows the game is up, that's why he's turned up the pressure to be PM, he's trying to get out - quick! The problem is the longer he is Chancellor nothing will be done, pensions will deteriorate further, public and private debt will rise, public posts won't be cut... So, the sooner he moves out of the job the sooner the economy will move forward (in whatever direction). But, I don't want him to be PM. He should take the blame for the poor decisions he's made. Edited February 13, 2006 by Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddyboy Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 If he becomes PM I will never vote NL again!!! I would sooner pick the LIB DEMS than him!!! TB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heresjohnny Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Flash Gordon has certainly been putting himself about lately. I'm dying for Cameron to do a Brian Blessed impression across the dispatch box "Gordon's alive but he only has 14 hours to save his economic policy". Any more flash gordon characters in the house of commons (other than Ming The Talentless)?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boom_and_bust Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) Hi, The problem is his arrogance. I don't know if anyone follows eu events but for the past several years, in Brussels, he has been crowing about Britain's Economic prowess and the terrible state of European economics, particularly Germany and France. (Germany, the EU's largest economy that just 15 years ago swallowed a decaying, bankrupt country the size of England back into it's borders, that just recently has shown strong economic growth and a massive trade surplus. Or France, one of the world's highest standards of living, one of the best universal health care systems in the west, a world rival to the US in Aircraft, Aerospace and high technology, the world's leader in renewable energy research). For several years they were saying back in the press that Gordon's economic performance is built on debt and borrowing and that he has lost control of the UK's housing markets and trade defecits. THEY WERE RIGHT. They were saying it back in the late ninetees. He also said that he would never let the housing market boom and bust again and risk the future of people's homes. That was coming into power in 1997 for the party, when many people had emerged, ravaged by a housing crash years earlier and sick to death of the Tories. Now, the UK housing market is structurally setup for boom and bust for eternity with the current structural conditions. To be fair, it would take a generation to create a calmer housing market in the UK but he could have prevented it from ever getting this bad. Even if you don't agree that the bust is here, the boom bit happened at a level never seen before, not backed by a trade surplus or massive increases in productivity but debt. And this is a Labour government who are meant to be socially conscious. And what is worse, he encouraged it for votes and stood crowing about it when it was obvious at least five years ago that he is at the printing presses. He said nearly a decade ago that productivity is the economic yardstick of developemnt and growth. Compared to other nations we have gone backwards in the past decade. Other western countries see high technology and service technologies as the competitive future against India, China and Brazil as we pay our way in the world. What does Britian have? It seems to think it's stock of land and bricks is vastly superior to bricks and land found in other nations. However you dress it up, look at the figures behind GDP growth. House price rises and personal and gvernment debt have been behind the vast majority of growth. That is the legacy for future generations to pay off. He never read La Fontaine's 'Ant and Cricket'. His economic handling is close to incompetent. He lost control of the housing market and of the money supply. He tried an experiment, from his advisors to abandon demand or supply side management in favour of inflation targeting. He then dropped everything that is inflationary out of the headline figures and allowed public, personal and trade spending to esculate out of control, spinning all along the way to create this facade of economic heroism. All the way though it he has been happy to accept the plaudits for economic miracles and prudent management which is a complete fraud, as we are seeing. And he has no solution forthcoming. Infact, the last occassion that the country faced debt levels of ths scale was during the 70's when Britain had to seek assistance from the IMF and world Bank. In much the same way Argentina had to a few years back. It's the man's arrogance and poor performance that is the issue. God help us when he gets in and he doesn't have Blair to reign him in. He has shown so far that he will do and say anything to spin his way into the top job. Do you think he is a socialist, wracked with pain and determination to provide decent shelter and comfort to his citizens? Like ****. He is a career politician, nothing more, nothing less. (I would have trouble voting for any of the others as well but it would be a choice between the other two, for sure). Edited February 13, 2006 by boom_and_bust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We've gone Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 As one of the token Lefties on HPC Too modest - not token at all, and with lots of friends of a similar persuasion on here. You obviously have principles and believe Gordon Brown does too - and you know Tony sincerely believes what Tony says only while he says it. Labour has been at its most unpopular when it has aped failed Tory policies (see rail privatisation, cutting disability benefit, etc for examples). On the other hand, the Minimum Wage has been successfully introduced, and the most popular of Gordon's budgets was when he raised NI contributions. It is a government's job to be successful, not popular. But it seems this government fails your test too now. Gordon got my vote here because I think whoever is going to truly deal with the mess (and it will not be Gordon) needs the country's voters to be in despair first and 10 good years on the job, so 2 election wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgeingBabyBoomer Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Yes, so we can see the back of that slimeball Blair. He may make a better PM than Chancellor - Major did. (who for all the sins of his party wasn't actually a bad PM). ABB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
See Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Always a clown with Golden Brown. They are all the same, can I vote for a frisbee to run the country instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 Hi,The problem is his arrogance. Well said. The worst part is the general public think he has done a brilliant job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbird900 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Boom and Bust. Well written! I could not have expressed it better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahBell Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Well said. The worst part is the general public think he has done a brilliant job! And if they can clear all their bad debt at no personal loss then maybe he has? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Beeny! Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Brown has fooked the economy for many years into the future, he is a moody career politician who now wants people to get into 'Britishness' and become cadets (joining the Armed Forces?), has he EVER done such a thing? No, lets get someone else to be shot at or blown up when they get older. He tried to distance himself from the invasion of Iraq and had to be dragged in to support 'Tony' at a later date when it suited his political motives and career, he is a tw*t of the highest order. He is the kind of leftie that I truly despise, like Blair, who has never served in the military yet puff their chests (fat) out on the world stage when it suits them. He should only be PM whilst the HPC gets underway and the virtual economy tanks on his watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milo Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Too many people are hasty to judge Gordon without knowledge of the all the facts. Some unfairly criticise his appearance and say he’s dour and slouched with and acid face. Some mischievous people criticise his political judgement and call him a hypocrite (citing SIPPs which was would have allowed lowly rent payers the opportunity to transfer their money into the pension funds of their landlords). Some HPC doomsayers even call him a moron (quoting the words of Jilted John ‘he’s cheap, and a puff, yeah, yeah, it’s so unfair’). But I’ve given this some serious thought and after due consideration and careful analysis of the facts I have come to this conclusion: Gordon Brown is evil and must be destroyed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashedOutAndBurned Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 I think my peers - the ones that think critically at least - have an opinion of Blair/Brown much like those in the decimated North had of Thatcher in the eighties. They feel like their lives, their country, their quality of life, their world, their future,has been sh*t all over by these people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smell the Fear Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 He made an appearance on R4's Today programme this morning. It is available to listen to online. Scroll down to the 8.10 interview at Today - Gordon Brown It's worth a listen if you want to get a feel for his arrogance and boorishness. He is pushing ID cards as a means of protecting our identities from theft by criminals. Of course, he managed to get in his soundbite about how fantastic the economy is under New Labour. In my opinion he is utterly unsuitable for the job of PM - that is why there is such a massive coordinated campaign being launched at present to convince us that he is up to the job. It is being presented as an inevitable, forgone conclusion. If he was up to the job we really wouldn't need to be convinced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camem' Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 arguably more importantly for the housing market, who will the next chancellor be if Gordon is PM ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Luggage Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 arguably more importantly for the housing market, who will the next chancellor be if Gordon is PM ? Ken Dodd or Lester Piggot - neither could be any worse! LL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geranium Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Isn't the question irrelevant? Cameron will be the next PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KingCharles1st Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I think the problem is partly to do with how much personal power one allows the people to have, vs. how responsibly the average person will behave when faced with the available economic choices, peer pressure (via media onslaught) and an average pay packet that will never in a million years be able to match the outgoings expected of the acerage family in 2000-2006... If on one hand the government tries to nannny (and why should it) the people just might get out of this in one piece, but if they dont, and allow the spirit of free bastardism (banks and VI.s) to continue its reign of terror, the government feel a lot mor efinancially comfortable. Tony and Gordon should have seen all this coming, I personally dont believe they didnt, so in my book are both @@@ts because NEW LABOUR all lived through this in 1988-92 and swore they would make the country a better place... *****ERS My 8 year old could dod a better job!! Hague will be the man- even though I hated him as Tory Boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Riser Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I voted YES because his appointment will bring things to a head as the press focus their attention on the true cost of his economic miracle. He will no longer be able to dismiss questions about rising unemployment, record debt, and the end of the consumer boom. Brown will be hailed as a strong leader by his sycophantic Labour colleagues but he will be hated by the British public and will pave the way for a Conservative government lead by Cameron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KingCharles1st Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I think the problem is partly to do with how much personal power one allows the people to have, vs. how responsibly the average person will behave when faced with the available economic choices, peer pressure (via media onslaught) and an average pay packet that will never in a million years be able to match the outgoings expected of the average family in 2000-2006... If on one hand the government tries to nannny (and why should it,) the people just might get out of this in one piece, but if they dont, and allow the spirit of free bastardism (banks and VI.s) to continue its reign of terror, the government will feel a lot more financially comfortable. Tony and Gordon should have seen all this coming, I personally dont believe they didnt, so in my book are both @u@ts because NEW LABOUR all lived through this in 1988-92 and swore they would make the country a better place... *****ERS My 8 year old could do a better job!! Hague will be the man- even though I hated him as Tory Boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We've gone Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Hague will be the man- even though I hated him as Tory Boy I hope so - Cameron worries me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FernandoMorientes Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Have some of you on here lost your marbles? How can anyone seriously want Brown as PM he has ripped the UK economy to shreds the current level of debt is higher than the national output, this man has not performed he has raped us all big time. New labour old Labour they are the same their monetry policies have and always will be shambolic, you people who voted for these jokers deserve all your going to get over the next few years this country is financially fooked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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