23rdian Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Intersting thread on pistol heads forum. Aka BTL cheerleaders https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=1735249 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiltedjen Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 i thought HRMC were the first in line on the debt que? not the banks? well seems i was wrong based upon that, which is pretty shocking that private institutions can come before the people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgle Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 The way I read that thread is that banks or brokers are checking that people are paying their taxes. The specific reason being that HMRC are front of the queue and the banks don’t want to be behind HMRC in the collection queue if the borrower defaults. Did you read that differently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drummer Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 I read it as: The banks base their lending decision partly on whether the rentals are profitable or not. If they don't pay any tax, they can't be profitable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bland Unsight Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Drummer said: I read it as: The banks base their lending decision partly on whether the rentals are profitable or not. If they don't pay any tax, they can't be profitable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 3 hours ago, jiltedjen said: i thought HRMC were the first in line on the debt que? not the banks? well seems i was wrong based upon that, which is pretty shocking that private institutions can come before the people. HMRC are first inline to receive some wealth from the entity that owes the tax. But the lender actually owns the property surely ? The mortgage is a contract agreement to allow the borrower to make a claim for equity in it. If it turns out the borrower has no equity after all those contract clauses are interpreted. Then HMRC must find another means from the borrower to claim their money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregBowman Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Odin said: HMRC are first inline to receive some wealth from the entity that owes the tax. But the lender actually owns the property surely ? The mortgage is a contract agreement to allow the borrower to make a claim for equity in it. If it turns out the borrower has no equity after all those contract clauses are interpreted. Then HMRC must find another means from the borrower to claim their money. The lender does not own the property they have a charge against it, better supported normally because registered at the land registry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nome Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 Jesus wept. I always assumed BTL tax evasion would just be the small time ''accidental'' landlords... ''Case B, a referral last year which involved a conversation in which a husband and wife couple (with over 80 properties) were looking to refinance, reason undeclared hmrc income for 8 yrs on said properties. They wished to “help” HMRC in regards to back payments + interest etc, however HMRC are preparing to take them to court and are preparing to send them to prison.'' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adarmo Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 Oh my. What a beautiful day. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2017/22/part/3/enacted Banks lending on dodgy BTL LL evading tax are complicit (I think). If they are naughty they probably wont get more than a slap, but in order to get away with a slap they'll have to show they performed reasonable due diligence on the tax affairs ('d say that would be reasonable and I'm staggered they don't already do this) of the mortgagee. As someone says above, no profits = no tax so why would a rational bank lend on a loss making BTL? So the thieving rascals are either stuck on noncompetitive rates (until such a time as the bank does a little audit of it's BTL loan book), they start paying taxes, or they get harpooned with back taxes, fines, interest and maybe even a stay in one of Her Maj's HMOs, also known as HMPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorrowToLeech Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, nome said: Jesus wept. I always assumed BTL tax evasion would just be the small time ''accidental'' landlords... ''Case B, a referral last year which involved a conversation in which a husband and wife couple (with over 80 properties) were looking to refinance, reason undeclared hmrc income for 8 yrs on said properties. They wished to “help” HMRC in regards to back payments + interest etc, however HMRC are preparing to take them to court and are preparing to send them to prison.'' Thing is, due to our ******ed-up housing market, ‘small-scale’ landlords can wind-up controlling huge numbers of houses. In fact, I’ve never encountered anything like a ‘professional’ landlording company - they’re all basically small scale ‘amateurs’. They aren’t providing a service, and aren’t subject to competition, so there are no forces driving them to become competent or ‘professional’. The outcome is a hobby businesses tying up 80 homes, controlling the accommodation of probably 100-200 people, and probably not even bothering to hire an accountant. If your hobby is hoarding desperately needed homes, then you deserve to go to jail. One more than you need or 79 more, it makes no difference, and tax reasons are as good as any. Edited April 8, 2018 by BuyToLeech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darby Ram Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 2 hours ago, adarmo said: Oh my. What a beautiful day. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2017/22/part/3/enacted Banks lending on dodgy BTL LL evading tax are complicit (I think). If they are naughty they probably wont get more than a slap, but in order to get away with a slap they'll have to show they performed reasonable due diligence on the tax affairs ('d say that would be reasonable and I'm staggered they don't already do this) of the mortgagee. As someone says above, no profits = no tax so why would a rational bank lend on a loss making BTL? So the thieving rascals are either stuck on noncompetitive rates (until such a time as the bank does a little audit of it's BTL loan book), they start paying taxes, or they get harpooned with back taxes, fines, interest and maybe even a stay in one of Her Maj's HMOs, also known as HMPs. Great find, this is another cracking piece of legislation. I actually have a hard time believing that our doltish MPs understood the consequences of what they voting on here. As with all measures designed to crack down on financial crime, though, the proof will be in enforcement. So far, the May government has not impressed on that score. But if a government that was interested in this stuff came to power, then they would really have some great tools to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fence Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 13 hours ago, Gurgle said: The way I read that thread is that banks or brokers are checking that people are paying their taxes. The specific reason being that HMRC are front of the queue and the banks don’t want to be behind HMRC in the collection queue if the borrower defaults. Did you read that differently? And proceeds of crime acts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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