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Rave

The Battle of Lewisham- something to celebrate?

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I must admit to being a little bit ashamed that I'd never heard of the 'Battle of Lewisham', having been born in Lewisham Hospital, and having lived here for most of my life, until I saw this blog post on Twitter:

https://cucrblog.wordpress.com/2016/10/17/remembering-the-battle-of-lewisham-40-years-on-by-michael-danby/

I'm pretty disgusted by it, to be honest. To be fair, the blog post is a pretty accurate representation of what went on, at least if the Wikipedia article is to be believed: basically a mob of 'anti-fascists' started a riot in response to a National Front march. What I find scarcely believable is that an outbreak of wanton violence is, according to the author (who seems to have something to do with Goldsmiths College) something to be celebrated, rather than roundly condemned. I am particularly concerned at the mention of getting Primary school kids involved.

AIBU?

Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lewisham

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I read an article some years ago that claimed that much of what you read on wikipedia has a strong left wing bias. IIRC the article directed to some right of centre alternative to wikipedia that has been set up.

Imagine if all the editors of wikipedia were like BBC staff? One would hope not.

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That's beside the point; the Wikipedia article and the blog post seem to agree that the trouble was started by, and almost exclusively involved, the anti-fascist lot, rather than the NF's pitiful turn-out of 500 or so idiots. What troubles me is that the blog post author seems to think that that was a good thing; something worth remembering with pride, and telling schoolkids about.

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I find the NF views abhorrent (and I used to be regularly abused by their supporters on my way to school as a teen). But I respect their right to peacefully protest in support of/against whatever they believe in - providing it is legal.  Equally, I also support the right of their opponents to peacefully protest.  

Such "battles" only serve to further polarise and often give succour/publicity to an undesirable cause. I'd barely heard of the EDL until the counter protests started up. 

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I thought anybody could become a Wikipedia editor, so rather than there being an intrinsic bias it's down to the people that do so.

That is a celebration of the violent crushing of free speech; what's the difference between cheering on that and cheering on the Met for killing Blair Peach in a similar incident?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Blair_Peach

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I mention this from time to time, but here in Germany, the news is always reporting violence at right wing demonstrations, and it's only if you pay attention or do a bit of research yourself, that 95% of the time, it is leftie so-called anti-fascists or anti-nazi counter demos that are doing the violencing. They are clearly people who just like breaking things and hurting people.  The media seems to tolerate or even praise their violence. The anti-nazis are the new nazis.

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12 hours ago, The Masked Tulip said:

I read an article some years ago that claimed that much of what you read on wikipedia has a strong left wing bias. IIRC the article directed to some right of centre alternative to wikipedia that has been set up.

Imagine if all the editors of wikipedia were like BBC staff? One would hope not.

The problem is that to be a 'verified source' generally it needs to be academic, particularly on controversial articles eg political ones. And the weight of opinion in academic circles is overwhelmingly on the left.

As an example, the "Front National" article on the English Wikipedia - are they far-right or simply right-wing. The majority of results in Google use the term "right wing", but the majority of academic sources refer to them as "far right" so that is what stays. It's a shocking way to go about it, but I guess there isn't an alternative.

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3 minutes ago, Steppenpig said:

I mention this from time to time, but here in Germany, the news is always reporting violence at right wing demonstrations, and it's only if you pay attention or do a bit of research yourself, that 95% of the time, it is leftie so-called anti-fascists or anti-nazi counter demos that are doing the violencing. They are clearly people who just like breaking things and hurting people.  The media seems to tolerate or even praise their violence. The anti-nazis are the new nazis.

Marxists have always believed that the ends justify the means. If your intentions are noble then it's alright to engage in all sorts of dishonesty and violence to achieve your goal. But what is the goal?

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9 hours ago, StainlessSteelCat said:

Such "battles" only serve to further polarise and often give succour/publicity to an undesirable cause. I'd barely heard of the EDL until the counter protests started up. 

 

9 minutes ago, Steppenpig said:

I mention this from time to time, but here in Germany, the news is always reporting violence at right wing demonstrations, and it's only if you pay attention or do a bit of research yourself, that 95% of the time, it is leftie so-called anti-fascists or anti-nazi counter demos that are doing the violencing. They are clearly people who just like breaking things and hurting people.  The media seems to tolerate or even praise their violence. The anti-nazis are the new nazis.

It's exactly the same in the UK; once you look into pretty every demo that ends in trouble, running battles with the police etc., it's the anti-fascist lot that have started it, and yet that's never how the story is portrayed in the media. The fact that the NF could muster only 500 people in the late 70s is telling; nowadays the far right are a completely spent force who enjoy almost no popular support. The correct response to them would be to simply point and laugh, and yet their pathetic little marches and demos are inevitably used as a pretext for serious violence by 'antis'. I find the idea that a taxpayer funded institution like Goldsmiths is trying to put a positive spin on what was clearly an episode of nihilistic thuggery very disturbing.

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We had a EDL march not so long ago in the town I live in.  There weren't that many of them - probably around 50; generally well behaved along with scary looking marshals keeping everyone in order.

The anti-fascists, on the other hand, arrived mob handed looking for a fight.  They were the ones to avoid.

On the bright side, the builders' merchants sold out of plywood as all the shops/houses in the town centre boarded up their windows, and the cobble stones in the town square were re-pointed so they couldn't be ripped up.  In the end, the police kept the two sides apart, and the whole thing was a bit of a damp squib.  If I remember correctly, the police outnumbered the EDL by about 5 to 1.

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1 hour ago, Rave said:

 

It's exactly the same in the UK; once you look into pretty every demo that ends in trouble, running battles with the police etc., it's the anti-fascist lot that have started it, and yet that's never how the story is portrayed in the media. The fact that the NF could muster only 500 people in the late 70s is telling; nowadays the far right are a completely spent force who enjoy almost no popular support. The correct response to them would be to simply point and laugh, and yet their pathetic little marches and demos are inevitably used as a pretext for serious violence by 'antis'. I find the idea that a taxpayer funded institution like Goldsmiths is trying to put a positive spin on what was clearly an episode of nihilistic thuggery very disturbing.

There was a march organized by Britain 1st in Rotherham last year (against the activities of the rape gangs and the incompetence/corruption of the Lab council). It was passing off peacefully until the UAF and several dozen Pakistani youth turned up and licked off. Many got arrested for lobbing stuff etc. at the marchers. Now the Muslim community and their allies in the socialists workers/UAF are campaigning for the pakistanis to be let off of all charges. Google the 'Rotherham 12' for more, but basically they want the 'right to riot' if anyone protests on what they regard as their turf.

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Always been the same. What the left knows best is how to hate. Listen to them, they are always talking about smashing something.

I remember a protest going down Piccadilly in the early eighties. They had a chant going, 'the rich, the rich we gotta get rid of the rich'. I was waiting to cross the road. One of them looked at me, pointed, and screamed 'fascist'. I suppose because I was wearing a suit.

There is no point in trying to engage with them, they have entirely closed minds.

They will believe anything that flatters their prejudices.

They are the ignorant, easily led mob that can make the terror possible.

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Just a rabble then!:huh: The best protest is your actions, like not buying stuff you disagree with. Waving placards and shouting is a bit naff.

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