Driverless Cars To Create 320,000 Jobs Report Claims

[moedo12]

Why should cars have priority over pedestrians exactly?

I imagine a big difference between these and human driven vehicles is the autonomous ones won't be accelerating as they approach a traffic light for example. They'll know the traffic light is about to change.

[Sandwiches33]

Google cars take some people on a jolly

[Sandwiches33]

thats an old video btw, Itll start with motorways and as the cars improve it will be a gradual takeover

Audo, volvo are big on it right now.

[Sandwiches33]

and

[Sandwiches33]

this mercedes has a cool concept for pedestrains

[Sandwiches33]

and all those f1 drivers will go the way of fighter pilots

[moedo12]

There is already legislation that says you have to stop for peds - I don't think that is the problem. The reason peds do not wander all over the road is that they have a strong suspicion that they will get killed with humans behind the wheel. As soon as that suspicion is no longer present, and they are confident the car will stop, then they will wander all over the road. Ditto for "manual" car drivers. Why would I give way to a driverless car if I know it will stop?

A big game changer too will be 5G, which will enable cars and roads to communicate with each other in a secure and very reliable way. We don't need to wait until 2045 for this technology, it's right round the corner. [/quote ]

5G (whatever it actually is) is just a comms technology. There are areas of the country that do not even have 2G yet. Even in areas with good coverage, it sometimes does not work - what happens then?

I'm told it's different from 4G because it's designed to be very reliable, it won't be flakey, it can't be if it's used for this kind of thing. 10 years from now 5G will be everywhere there's a road if driverless cars take off.

[MarkG]

I imagine the solution to this is that the government would legislate that cars must be programmed to stop for pedestrians.

Then, all you need to hijack a driverless truck's cargo, is to have someone stand in the road while you offload it and drive away.

Yeah, it will send out a distress call, but the police won't turn up for an hour or two, so who cares?

[MarkG]

I'm told it's different from 4G because it's designed to be very reliable, it won't be flakey, it can't be if it's used for this kind of thing. 10 years from now 5G will be everywhere there's a road if driverless cars take off.

And the next version of Windows will be the fastest, safest and most secure EVAH!

[thecrashingisles]

This is the Mercedes version. I like the comment which compared it to a combination of a computer mouse and a Remington shaver.

[billybong]

And the next version of Windows will be the fastest, safest and most secure EVAH!

Always upgraded suddenly in the middle of a task that costs money to interrupt.

[billybong]

would you take the chance? everytime you step onto the road at traffic lights you expect cars to stop. Sometimes they dont, would you take the risk? a number of the humans are drunk/drugged/old/young/middle aged /not paying attention. The other day I was on a zebra at a hopsital and there were obvious patients going across, they were slow on crutches etc and a ******ing **** in a 4x4 drove through them because he didnt want to wait.

Just saying that there are careless drivers of every age group - unfortunately.

Edited March 29, 2015 by billybong

[Sandwiches33]

Just saying that there are careless drivers of every age group - unfortunately.

Yes of course and its not gender specific either,

I once had a woman nearly crash into me, when I drew alongside at the next set of lights She was driving whilst applying eye makeup!

I only mention old people becuase "robot car" is slang where i am from when you have a tiny pensioner you cannot see in the seat and the car seems to be slow and erratic.

I would take my chances with a robot as opposed to many drivers out there. All the times I have been nearly hit it was through human stupidity.

[onlyme2]

Yes of course and its not gender specific either,

I once had a woman nearly crash into me, when I drew alongside at the next set of lights She was driving whilst applying eye makeup!

I only mention old people becuase "robot car" is slang where i am from when you have a tiny pensioner you cannot see in the seat and the car seems to be slow and erratic.

I would take my chances with a robot as opposed to many drivers out there. All the times I have been nearly hit it was through human stupidity.

A large part of the safety (or otherwise) of driving is predictability. Robot cars could be designed to be very predictable, which would be a great plus in their favour.

Sharing the roads with robot cars would be a two way process too - humans would learn to adjust their driving behaviour in a shared environment, it would not all be about the operation of the robot cars.

[billybong]

Yes of course and its not gender specific either,

I once had a woman nearly crash into me, when I drew alongside at the next set of lights She was driving whilst applying eye makeup!

I only mention old people becuase "robot car" is slang where i am from when you have a tiny pensioner you cannot see in the seat and the car seems to be slow and erratic.

I would take my chances with a robot as opposed to many drivers out there. All the times I have been nearly hit it was through human stupidity.

I agree it's amazing the liberties some people take when driving. Some accidents can only be explained if the drivers think they're already in a car with driverless capabilities.

[Riedquat]

Why should cars have priority over pedestrians exactly? I don't really see the problem with cars having to wait for the people who live/work in the local area to get about. That actually sounds like quite a nice world to live in. Imagine being able to leave the house to go for a walk and not have to dodge 2 tonne blocks of steel carrying lethal amounts of kinetic energy every time you want to cross the street.

Cars have priority on the bits of the roads for them (pedestrian crossings excepted of course), pedestrians on the bits for them (pavements), and most of the time they manage to happily get along without getting in each others' way. On quieter out of town roads there are fewer of both and enough give and take in general for there to still be little getting in each other's way.

[wonderpup]

There is already legislation that says you have to stop for peds - I don't think that is the problem. The reason peds do not wander all over the road is that they have a strong suspicion that they will get killed with humans behind the wheel. As soon as that suspicion is no longer present, and they are confident the car will stop, then they will wander all over the road. Ditto for "manual" car drivers. Why would I give way to a driverless car if I know it will stop?

The laws of physics will still apply- even a robot car would not stop on a dime so walking out in front of one would still be a risk.

Also the social implications of blocking someones car would still be there- they will still be in the car. For unmanned taxis going to a pickup or commercial transporters it could be an issue- I could imagine kids having a lot of fun with them- but after a time the novelty would wear off and I would guess they would just become part of the normal background.

[rxe]

I'm told it's different from 4G because it's designed to be very reliable, it won't be flakey, it can't be if it's used for this kind of thing. 10 years from now 5G will be everywhere there's a road if driverless cars take off.

I know a bit about mobile telephony. It is pretty simple, if you are in range of a mast, and the mast has capacity, then you get data. If either of those is not true, you get nothing. The invest required is staggering - there are large sections of the country with no 3G signal, and there are a number of areas with no 2G signal. I doubt we will have pervasive 4G in 5 years, and it will take 10 to cover 95% of the population - and there will still be places (just like 2G) where there is no signal. If you're going to bet a safety critical system on a mobile signal, I don't want much to do with it.

That said, I don't think mobile will be about safety critical aspects, it will be about telling cars that there are jams ahead.

Also the social implications of blocking someones car would still be there- they will still be in the car. For unmanned taxis going to a pickup or commercial transporters it could be an issue- I could imagine kids having a lot of fun with them- but after a time the novelty would wear off and I would guess they would just become part of the normal background.

You're in a car with no steering wheel and some scrote stands in the road in front of you. What do you do? He knows you can't run him over. If his mate stands behind you, you're there until they let you go. Loads of comedy fun with this....

I'll go back to the aeroplanes. We have autopilots that can fly planes around the world - but we still have pilots. Yes, the flying public are very conservative (just like the driving public), but the real reason is that the humans are very good at dealing with the unexpected, even if sometimes they get it wrong.

Edited March 29, 2015 by rxe

[moedo12]

I know a bit about mobile telephony. It is pretty simple, if you are in range of a mast, and the mast has capacity, then you get data. If either of those is not true, you get nothing. The invest required is staggering - there are large sections of the country with no 3G signal, and there are a number of areas with no 2G signal. I doubt we will have pervasive 4G in 5 years, and it will take 10 to cover 95% of the population - and there will still be places (just like 2G) where there is no signal. If you're going to bet a safety critical system on a mobile signal, I don't want much to do with it.

That said, I don't think mobile will be about safety critical aspects, it will be about telling cars that there are jams ahead.

You're in a car with no steering wheel and some scrote stands in the road in front of you. What do you do? He knows you can't run him over. If his mate stands behind you, you're there until they let you go. Loads of comedy fun with this....

I'll go back to the aeroplanes. We have autopilots that can fly planes around the world - but we still have pilots. Yes, the flying public are very conservative (just like the driving public), but the real reason is that the humans are very good at dealing with the unexpected, even if sometimes they get it wrong.

The global race is on to develop 5G, the fifth generation of mobile network. While 5G will follow in the footsteps of 4G and 3G, this time scientists are more excited. They say 5G will be different - very different.

If you're thinking, "Great, that's the end of my apps stalling, video faltering, and that everlasting load sign," then you are right - but that's only part of the story.

"5G will be a dramatic overhaul and harmonisation of the radio spectrum," says Prof Rahim Tafazolli who is the lead at the UK's multimillion-pound government-funded 5G Innovation Centre at the University of Surrey.

That means the opportunity for properly connected smart cities, remote surgery, driverless cars and the "internet of things".

So, how best to understand this joined-up, superfast, all-encompassing 5G network? It seems that the term "harmonisation of the radio spectrum" is key.

A quick refresher: Data is transmitted via radio waves. Radio waves are split up into bands - or ranges - of different frequencies.

Each band is reserved for a different type of communication - such as aeronautical and maritime navigation signals, television broadcasts and mobile data. The use of these frequency bands is regulated by the International Telecommunications Union (ITU).

It is too early to say exactly what 5G products will look like

Currently, the radio frequency spectrum is a bit of a mess. As new technologies have been developed, frequencies for them to use have been squeezed into its gaps.

This has caused problems with connection speeds and reliability.

So, to pave the way for 5G the ITU is comprehensively restructuring the parts of the radio network used to transmit data, while allowing pre-existing communications, including 4G and 3G, to continue functioning.

100 times faster

5G will also run faster, a lot faster.

Prof Tafazolli now believes it is possible to run a wireless data connection at an astounding 800Gbps - that's 100 times faster than current 5G testing.

When Samsung announced in 2013 it was testing 5G at 1Gbps, journalists excitedly reported that a high-definition movie could be downloaded in less than half a minute.

A speed of 800Gbps would equate to downloading 33 HD films - in a single second.

In June 2000 Samsung released the IMT2000, touted as the world's first web video phone

5G's capacity will also have to be vast.

"The network will need to cope with a vast increase in demand for communication," says Sara Mazur, head of Ericsson Research, one of the companies leading the development of 5G.

By 2020 it is thought that 50 billion to 100 billion devices will be connected to the internet. So, connections that run on different frequency bands will be established to cope with demand.

Raising the capacity of a network is a little like widening a road tunnel.

If you add more lanes more cars can go through. And ordering makes it more efficient: some lanes for long-distance, others lanes for local traffic.

The huge rise in connected devices will be due to a boom in inanimate objects using the 5G network - known as the internet of things.

Self-driving cars talk to each other to avoid accidents

It won't be just products like remotely controlling your heating or that mythical fridge ordering you more milk, trains could tell you which seats are free while they are in the station.

Devices will be able to choose dynamically between which of three still-to-be-determined bandwidths they use to avoid any of frequencies from becoming overloaded, explains Prof Tafazolli.

"Only once these frequencies are set and established can product development begin," Ms Mazur adds.

The aim is for the first of the frequency bands to come into use around the year 2020, with the other two to follow soon after.

Small masts could be used where buildings might block higher frequencies

Another defining feature will be that, crucially, 5G shouldn't break.

"It will have the reliability that you currently get over fibre connections," says Sara Mazur.

Advances in antenna technology promise an end to sudden data connection drop-outs.

This will be essential for safety. Companies including China's Huawei are already talking about using 5G to let driverless cars communicate with each other and the infrastructure they pass.

Tech such as smart transport and remote surgery, where a human remotely operates a robot to carry out complicated operations, will rely on lower latencies too.

Latency refers to the time lag between an action and a response.

Ericsson predict that 5G's latency will be around one millisecond - unperceivable to a human and about 50 times faster than 4G.

This will be critical, for example, if doctors are to command equipment to carry out surgery on patients located in different buildings.

5G trial network

So how much will it all cost? Ericsson and Huawei say they simply don't know yet.

Until the product development phase starts it is too early to tell.

Japan wants to play host, not just to the 2020 Olympics, but also to the world's first commercial 5G network

But that doesn't stop them from wanting to flaunt their research to the market.

In South Korea, which spearheaded work on 4G, Samsung hopes to launch a temporary trial 5G network in time for 2018's Winter Olympic Games.

Not to be outdone, Huawei is racing to implement a version for the 2018 World Cup in Moscow.

Despite such apparent rivalries and the huge sums each is investing in R&D, the bigger story is that they are co-operating to deliver 5G. And that in turn paves the way for potentially unmatched new technologies.

"That's until 6G comes along in around 2040," Prof Tafazolli remarks.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30224853

[moedo12]

You're in a car with no steering wheel and some scrote stands in the road in front of you. What do you do? He knows you can't run him over. If his mate stands behind you, you're there until they let you go. Loads of comedy fun with this....

So what happens if you in front of a bus and refuse to move currently? They'd probably call the police.

[MarkG]

So what happens if you in front of a bus and refuse to move currently? They'd probably call the police.

Usually, the bus driver plays chicken, and the pedestrian gets out of the way before they're run over. Most people get out of the way, because they know the bus driver will probably stop... but might not. Who knows whether they've picked the wrong bus, and the driver is just about ready to snap?

[Snugglybear]

The global race is on to develop 5G, the fifth generation of mobile network. While 5G will follow in the footsteps of 4G and 3G, this time scientists are more excited. They say 5G will be different - very different.

If you're thinking, "Great, that's the end of my apps stalling, video faltering, and that everlasting load sign," then you are right - but that's only part of the story.

"5G will be a dramatic overhaul and harmonisation of the radio spectrum," says Prof Rahim Tafazolli who is the lead at the UK's multimillion-pound government-funded 5G Innovation Centre at the University of Surrey.

That means the opportunity for properly connected smart cities, remote surgery, driverless cars and the "internet of things".

So, how best to understand this joined-up, superfast, all-encompassing 5G network? It seems that the term "harmonisation of the radio spectrum" is key.

A quick refresher: Data is transmitted via radio waves. Radio waves are split up into bands - or ranges - of different frequencies.

Each band is reserved for a different type of communication - such as aeronautical and maritime navigation signals, television broadcasts and mobile data. The use of these frequency bands is regulated by the International Telecommunications Union (ITU).

It is too early to say exactly what 5G products will look likeCurrently, the radio frequency spectrum is a bit of a mess. As new technologies have been developed, frequencies for them to use have been squeezed into its gaps.

This has caused problems with connection speeds and reliability.

So, to pave the way for 5G the ITU is comprehensively restructuring the parts of the radio network used to transmit data, while allowing pre-existing communications, including 4G and 3G, to continue functioning.

100 times faster

5G will also run faster, a lot faster.

Prof Tafazolli now believes it is possible to run a wireless data connection at an astounding 800Gbps - that's 100 times faster than current 5G testing.

When Samsung announced in 2013 it was testing 5G at 1Gbps, journalists excitedly reported that a high-definition movie could be downloaded in less than half a minute.

A speed of 800Gbps would equate to downloading 33 HD films - in a single second.

In June 2000 Samsung released the IMT2000, touted as the world's first web video phone5G's capacity will also have to be vast.

"The network will need to cope with a vast increase in demand for communication," says Sara Mazur, head of Ericsson Research, one of the companies leading the development of 5G.

By 2020 it is thought that 50 billion to 100 billion devices will be connected to the internet. So, connections that run on different frequency bands will be established to cope with demand.

Raising the capacity of a network is a little like widening a road tunnel.

If you add more lanes more cars can go through. And ordering makes it more efficient: some lanes for long-distance, others lanes for local traffic.

The huge rise in connected devices will be due to a boom in inanimate objects using the 5G network - known as the internet of things.

Self-driving cars talk to each other to avoid accidentsIt won't be just products like remotely controlling your heating or that mythical fridge ordering you more milk, trains could tell you which seats are free while they are in the station.

Devices will be able to choose dynamically between which of three still-to-be-determined bandwidths they use to avoid any of frequencies from becoming overloaded, explains Prof Tafazolli.

"Only once these frequencies are set and established can product development begin," Ms Mazur adds.

The aim is for the first of the frequency bands to come into use around the year 2020, with the other two to follow soon after.

Small masts could be used where buildings might block higher frequenciesAnother defining feature will be that, crucially, 5G shouldn't break.

"It will have the reliability that you currently get over fibre connections," says Sara Mazur.

Advances in antenna technology promise an end to sudden data connection drop-outs.

This will be essential for safety. Companies including China's Huawei are already talking about using 5G to let driverless cars communicate with each other and the infrastructure they pass.

Tech such as smart transport and remote surgery, where a human remotely operates a robot to carry out complicated operations, will rely on lower latencies too.

Latency refers to the time lag between an action and a response.

Ericsson predict that 5G's latency will be around one millisecond - unperceivable to a human and about 50 times faster than 4G.

This will be critical, for example, if doctors are to command equipment to carry out surgery on patients located in different buildings.

5G trial network

So how much will it all cost? Ericsson and Huawei say they simply don't know yet.

Until the product development phase starts it is too early to tell.

Japan wants to play host, not just to the 2020 Olympics, but also to the world's first commercial 5G networkBut that doesn't stop them from wanting to flaunt their research to the market.

In South Korea, which spearheaded work on 4G, Samsung hopes to launch a temporary trial 5G network in time for 2018's Winter Olympic Games.

Not to be outdone, Huawei is racing to implement a version for the 2018 World Cup in Moscow.

Despite such apparent rivalries and the huge sums each is investing in R&D, the bigger story is that they are co-operating to deliver 5G. And that in turn paves the way for potentially unmatched new technologies.

"That's until 6G comes along in around 2040," Prof Tafazolli remarks.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30224853

It's still radio. It will still need masts.

[MarkG]

Sounds like you've been reading Alastair Reynolds' Poseidon's Children trilogy (Blue Remembered Earth is the first one). It's pretty much this.

No, I've been writing about humans networked into bots for years. I just hadn't considered the full implications until recently.

It's pretty much the end of the line for mass transport on Earth. The only time you'd need to move your body from one place to another is when there's an imminent threat to that body.

[mikthe20]

Double post

Edited March 30, 2015 by mikthe20

[mikthe20]

No, I've been writing about humans networked into bots for years. I just hadn't considered the full implications until recently.

It's pretty much the end of the line for mass transport on Earth. The only time you'd need to move your body from one place to another is when there's an imminent threat to that body.

Cool. And totally agree. May I ask if any of your writing on this subject has been published or is it on here?

I think this year we're about to see one of the main enabling technologies for this go mainstream - VR.