Tube Drivers To Be Paid £50,000 A Year

[neil324]

I remember being surprised about that too at first, but the hours taken to earn that are horiffic and often through nights etc. Also pretty high stress and risky. I know people over-simplify what is involved with driving a tube, but it must be easier than driving an HGV on crowded roads with flamable substances in tow?

You can see why they are paid more than normal HGV drivers, responsibility with lethal product, not allowed to drink 24 hours before work.

What do tube drivers or train drivers do that warrants the extra over a bus driver.

Fook all.

[Hectors House]

You can see why they are paid more than normal HGV drivers, responsibility with lethal product, not allowed to drink 24 hours before work.

What do tube drivers or train drivers do that warrants the extra over a bus driver.

Fook all.

Have you ever been a passenger in a London Bus especially on route like Tulse Hill to Brixton? NEVER AGAIN! was lucky to walk away

[SpewLabour]

For the tube drivers on the forum - how can you justify a flat-rate bonus of £500 for simply doing your job during the Olympics?

[efdemin]

I will say it again. Bankers generally get paid very average wages indeed.

Funnily enough - of all places - a bloke on Max Keiser last night was making this very point. That there are a couple of thousand 'bankers' on mega bucks whilst the rest or mostly on very average salaries.

And this show is not exactly one that has a history of backing up the Bankster scum.

I think you'll have to define 'bankers' a bit more clearly first. The vast majority who work for a bank are on very average wages perhaps, but I don't think that is who most people mean when they say 'bankers'.

Even so, why are they any more deserving of my sympathy than a.n.other worker? They have the same choice of jobs as I do - if they don't like 'banking', whatever that is, they can get a different job, can't they?

I thought this thread was about tube drivers, it makes me feel queasy to see someone trying to drum up sympathy for bankers. Why not EA's if you want to derail things?

[worried1]

You can see why they are paid more than normal HGV drivers, responsibility with lethal product, not allowed to drink 24 hours before work.

What do tube drivers or train drivers do that warrants the extra over a bus driver.

Fook all.

Totally agree with you. I was just making the point that a tube drivers job is not quite as easy as just pressing the start/stop button as a lot of people are making out.

Bus drivers have a much worse time of it. Just dealing with the often abusive public and having to manage a large vehicle in busy traffic makes it a much harder job. The fact they get paid half as much and get much worse benefits make it worse still.

[neil324]

Have you ever been a passenger in a London Bus especially on route like Tulse Hill to Brixton? NEVER AGAIN! was lucky to walk away

Not had any problems in Brum.

Would have been a good claim anyway. You could argue driving a bus is harder, tube drivers just pull levers, can you crash a tube train through driver error, happens all the time on buses.

[worried1]

The other thing that annoys me is the sense of entitlement that the unions push on to their members to push up the militancy levels.

Even on this thread we have had tube drivers expressing the fact that £42k for an unskilled job is about right, and a 5% payrise is what everyone should be entitled to. This may be true, but I genuinely don’t think that they realise how far this is removed from all other jobs in the current economy.

Then you get Bob Crowe boasting to the press that we have ‘the best paid train drivers in the world’ and that Tube drivers ‘would not get a better deal anywhere else in public sector’.

[ccc]

Sp starting work at 4.30am, or at the other extreme finishing at 1.30am, with a possible ten days on straight is not unsocial? Right........

With regards to the other elements, know what a train line burst on your front trip **** is? Or a faulty blown number one amp fuse with a no movement tunnel section is? Let me enlighten you.... said "unpredictable elements"

Come on. Not even close to driving along a road with numerous other vehicles coming towards you when NOT attached to rails.

I think you'll have to define 'bankers' a bit more clearly first. The vast majority who work for a bank are on very average wages perhaps, but I don't think that is who most people mean when they say 'bankers'.

Even so, why are they any more deserving of my sympathy than a.n.other worker? They have the same choice of jobs as I do - if they don't like 'banking', whatever that is, they can get a different job, can't they?

I thought this thread was about tube drivers, it makes me feel queasy to see someone trying to drum up sympathy for bankers. Why not EA's if you want to derail things?

I said this because this thread has already had pages and pages of comparisons between tube drivers and bankers.

And yes why not EA's ? I am sure many are not much different from us lot on this site - and simply want to do a job to earn a crust to feed themselves.

We are all people afterall. There are certain groups that we seem to hate more than others. Myself included. But then again - if you think about it - that is a bit mental.

Although I will happily exempt politicians from this. They are on a different level as their entire job role is apparently to do what is best for their constituents. When it comes to taking the piss they blow the Banksters, EA's and anyone else out of the water.

[symo]

For the tube drivers on the forum - how can you justify a flat-rate bonus of £500 for simply doing your job during the Olympics?

Yes I am interested in this.

To earn my bonus this year I had to show: My targets set last year had been met. I had to show what I had done to publicise my profession in the wider world. I had to deomstrate what cost savings I had brought in last year. Also I had to show how I had allocated resources to minimise inefficiencies in final product assembly.

What have you done for £500?

[efdemin]

Bankers are despised more than tube drivers, that just the way it is. Trying to argue otherwise is all bit, well, PC, isn't it?

[SHERWICK]

Yes I am interested in this.

To earn my bonus this year I had to show: My targets set last year had been met. I had to show what I had done to publicise my profession in the wider world. I had to deomstrate what cost savings I had brought in last year. Also I had to show how I had allocated resources to minimise inefficiencies in final product assembly.

What have you done for £500?

Not gone on strike?

[PopGun]

So basically this has ended up being another thread were plebs should never be allowed to earn more than anyone who's an Engineer or works in IT.

That's the gist of it isn't it? Would explain all this narcissistic jealousy/injury.

[ccc]

Bankers are despised more than tube drivers, that just the way it is. Trying to argue otherwise is all bit, well, PC, isn't it?

Really ? I am not trying to argue anything. Just saying that both a banker and a tube driver will most likley be very similar blokes doing what they can to get by.

Please tell me exactly how that is wrong....

And if there were as many tube drivers in this country as 'bankers' doing what they are doing regarding strikes and pay deals ? I can assure you their hatred levels would rise to that of the bankers before you could say all aboard.

Just see what happened with the potential strike of fuel drivers back in 2008. You can rest assured half the country despised them at that very point. On a similar note - just how hated were the bankers in 2006 ? Huge difference to today.

You get the point ? We are all just people. And people are the problem. Because people are generally dicks.

[miko]

Many others on this thread seem to think there are perfectly reasonable ways of determining how much someone's work is worth. I would have thought the entire argument is a bit pointless if we cannot agree on something as fundamental as that. You have no trouble saying that £50k is not too much for low-skilled work, but a bit more trouble explaining why you think that?

Hence it should be made illegal for people to strike in industries where that is equivalent to holding the country to ransom.

BTW, it's not as if tube drivers are the only ones who ended up basically winning the lottery at everyone elses expense, but that is not relevant in this particular thread.

Oh many others on this thread think there are perfectly reasonable ways of determining how much someones's work is worth .

Well does that make them right ? who are they to make judgement on what others do for work and how much they earn ? have they got a degree in HR ? have they assessed everyones work rate , output and compared everyone in the country ?

If it was illegal to strike most people on this forum and in this country would still be working 80 hours a week just to keep the wolf from the door. People going on strike got us what we have today and some of it is being taken back bit by bit , the tube drivers are in a position to keep what they have and not join the race to the bottom . Good luck to them only sad that others are not so well placed .

[PopGun]

You get the point ? We are all just people. And people are the problem. Because people are generally dicks.

Yes, but some have bigger d1cks on their heads than others.

[ccc]

So basically this has ended up being another thread were plebs should never be allowed to earn more than anyone who's an Engineer or works in IT.

That's the gist of it isn't it? Would explain all this narcissistic jealousy/injury.

It is to do with jealousy - yes. However it is mainly down to effort and reward.

People generally think it is 'fair' if the effort and skills you put into something are rewarded accordingly. With BTL, Senior bankers and Tube drivers - many people think this basic 'fairness' does not exist. So they simply want to make the point. Don't see a problem myself.

Not much you can do about it though. No point worrying. However everyones right to say if they think it is a piss take.

My job just now is a piss take in regards to what I get paid and what I do. If anyone wants to tell me that ? Fair enough. I will be the first to agree. And have so many times on this forum already. Very different attitude to others people on this thread though isn't it ?

I have no issue with tube drivers trying to get all they can. Most people would do the same. What I do have issue with is them trying to persuade people that they are 'worth it' and their job really does deserve the rewards they receive.

It is quite embarressing really. IMO anyway.

[ccc]

Yes, but some have bigger d1cks on their heads than others.

Of course. Would be pish if we were all the same. Now that would be dull.

[SHERWICK]

Not gone on strike?

And before you have a go at me, people in the private sector do get £s for not doing things and carrying on with their normal jobs.

[worried1]

So basically this has ended up being another thread were plebs should never be allowed to earn more than anyone who's an Engineer or works in IT.

That's the gist of it isn't it? Would explain all this narcissistic jealousy/injury.

No, I think it is more about why one particular group of unskilled workers should be able to earn so much more than others in roles of similar value.

I guess the fact that these higher wages will also mean they earn more than people who have professional qualifications and skilled jobs probably is a cause of some consternation for those people. Isn't that natural?

I am not an Engineer and I don't work in IT. They way I see it, I'd struggle to get work in one of those fields without spending a few years in education/training and demonstrating some type of aptitude for the work. Even then, I'd likely be earning <£25k.

If I wanted to be a Tube driver, it sounds as though I could just sit through a few weeks of training and tests and then get a £42k - £50k job (except I couldn't because the wage-skill ratio is so high that it would be too difficult ever to get in!)

Edited October 5, 2011 by worried1

[PopGun]

I have no issue with tube drivers trying to get all they can. Most people would do the same. What I do have issue with is them trying to persuade people that they are 'worth it' and their job really does deserve the rewards they receive.

It is quite embarressing really. IMO anyway.

Our efforts would be better served asking ourselves WHY they're asking for so much?

More rabid frothing at a symptom, whilst avoiding the cause(s).

[ccc]

Our efforts would be better served asking ourselves WHY they're asking for so much?

More rabid frothing at a symptom, whilst avoiding the cause(s).

We all know housing costs are the major bain in this country. I have already said this numerous times even on this very thread. However let's remember these tube drivers are just people. And people will take all they can get when they can.

To me - this is a clear mixture of simple greed combined with high living costs. Let's not just forget the first bit eh....

[SHERWICK]

Our efforts would be better served asking ourselves WHY they're asking for so much?

You only live once. Shouldn't train drivers be allowed to enjoy cruises to the Caribbean, a 2nd home in the Med, fast cars etc. before they die?

Or should they only be able to observe the rich (included inherited wealth) enjoying themselves like this?

The cat's out of the bag now. In bygone days the working classes were happy to merely observe the upper classes living the high life, whilst they had to endure a life of hard work and a small, simple retirement.

But no more.

Those days are OVER. The working classes now want it all while they are alive.

And who can blame them?

[efdemin]

But I don't think there's any need to prove they're 'worth it' is there? And I don't think anyone on here is really trying to prove that either. (It's almost certainly unprovable in any academic meaning anyway.)

What I was trying to say earlier was at least they do something vaguely useful as opposed to 'bankers' who just skim a slice off the top of other people's money (and you know I don't mean the average bank employee here...). Whether that something is worth £42k or £50k I can't and won't say.

[aderuk]

Yes I am interested in this.

To earn my bonus this year I had to show: My targets set last year had been met. I had to show what I had done to publicise my profession in the wider world. I had to deomstrate what cost savings I had brought in last year. Also I had to show how I had allocated resources to minimise inefficiencies in final product assembly.

What have you done for £500?

Ok the £500 bonus is for changing our framework agreements(contracts) for the six weeks of the Olympics.

Things like our duty length's being increased from 8hrs to 91/2 hours to cover the running of extra trains etc.

Now if your boss came to you and said right MR Smith for the next 6 weeks your 9-5 job will now be 11-9pm, would say thanks for that or would you expect some sort of incentive to change your working hours ?

[ccc]

But I don't think there's any need to prove they're 'worth it' is there? And I don't think anyone on here is really trying to prove that either. (It's almost certainly unprovable in any academic meaning anyway.)

What I was trying to say earlier was at least they do something vaguely useful as opposed to 'bankers' who just skim a slice off the top of other people's money (and you know I don't mean the average bank employee here...). Whether that something is worth £42k or £50k I can't and won't say.

Could a bankers job be automated ? Most probably.

Could the tube drivers job be automated ? Most probably.

Exactly why is one more useful than the other ?

And let us not pretend the banking system is not useful - because it is. Just clearly not in it's present form. You could equally argue you don't really need a tube. Just change all the lines to bike routes and let everyone get to the same places whilst keeping fit and healthy.