Goat Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Said it in the post you answered and will say it again AVERAGE PEOPLE moaning about those earning a good wage are helping getting wages accross the board down , instead of looking at ways other people could earn more. Wages are all relative to each other, as I said: if you can get the workers in McDonalds up to £50,000 you can be damn sure that the tube drivers will want £200,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie The Tramp Returns Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Personally I believe Bus Drivers should be on par with Tube Drivers after all they too have to deal daily with the a******e great British public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-so Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Right. And that's really the point. The world of work isn't about how educated you are, or how complex your job is. It's just supply and demand. Historically few people wanted to work on platforms & go on to become tube drivers, and this lack of supply pushed wages up. Therefore it's where the smart money is. Do you think a trader gives a damn how complex a trade is? The game is about making money. Anything else is irrelevant. I bet most people here would rather eat s*** than walk about on a tube platform in a crummy uniform Are you honestly suggesting that wages for tube drivers have gone up because few people want to work in the tube? The reason tube drivers earn so much is that they can bring London to halt on Bob Crow's whim. I think that for years their union had no idea how much power it had. This will not be the end - they will keep on pushing, through £60k, £70k and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie The Tramp Returns Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 This will not be the end - they will keep on pushing, through £60k, £70k and so on. Thanks for that I have tonight applied to TFL for the position of a Trainee Tube Driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Because their wages are not good relative to McDonalds workers, they're good relative to teachers, nurses, a lot of doctors, paramedics, engineers and a lot of other jobs that require a vast amount more skill, training and ability than your average LU worker. And their wages are only so good because they've managed to hold the rest of the city to ransom through a closed shop in a virtual public sector monopoly. And it's the engineers on £30,000 who have to pay for it through extortionate fares whilst the LU workers on £50,000 get to use it all for free. Well a lot of people had good wages relative to teachers , nurses ect ( DON'T INCLUDE doctors in that they earn plenty and can earn more by going private while still working in the public sector ) like prison officers , factory workers, builders, office workers the list is endless . However their wages have now been reduced. Has the Engineer had a pay rise or the paramedic just because others had pay cuts ? Answer No. To call for others to have their wages cut just because one kind of job thinks or feels it has a higher skill base and does not like the fact that those working for LU are not as skilled as them just sounds like jealously and will get them nowhere. As for holding the rest of the city to ransom well I bet most of the jobs you mentioned would do the same if they could to get higher pay , problem for them is they carn't . TOUGH . Good luck to the train drivers wish I could have held on to my job that paid the same kind of money . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deft Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Something kind of similar comes up a lot where I work. PhD pay vs. Graduate pay etc. I always say - if you are annoyed at what someone else is earning and the grass looks greener then you have free will to persue that career move or change. Funnily enough most people don't bother spending the 4 years studying and writing a thesis to get the extra 12k a year salary, because it's easier to moan about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 As for holding the rest of the city to ransom well I bet most of the jobs you mentioned would do the same if they could to get higher pay , problem for them is they carn't . TOUGH . Good luck to the train drivers wish I could have held on to my job that paid the same kind of money . So you're happy to f*** over 95% of the population so long as you're alright Jack. At least I know where you're coming from now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Wages are all relative to each other, as I said: if you can get the workers in McDonalds up to £50,000 you can be damn sure that the tube drivers will want £200,000. No they are not if that was the case there would be one formular for wages accross the country .Wages come about through all manner of reasons . Where i worked when I went there in 1990 it was the highest paid factory in the area and maybe the whole of the country , a guy who had been there for 30 years told me that when he went there it was the lowest paid and people took jobs there if they were forced to by the unemployment office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 So you're happy to f*** over 95% of the population so long as you're alright Jack. At least I know where you're coming from now. No i never said that . Read what is put in front of you or is that above your skill level ? Dought they would take you on the tube . Why would 95% of the populaiton be f*** over anyway just because Tube drivers get £50k ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfp123 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 No i never said that . Read what is put in front of you or is that above your skill level ? Dought they would take you on the tube . Why would 95% of the populaiton be f*** over anyway just because Tube drivers get £50k ? because everyone else is paying their salary. it comes out of the pocket of everyone, including you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 because everyone else is paying their salary. it comes out of the pocket of everyone, including you. Thats the same for everything and anything we are all interconected and dependent on each other . But the tube drivers get a good pay packet ( not megga bucks like many in the city of London ) and so many people want to cut them back . Just sounds like sour grapes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 because everyone else is paying their salary. it comes out of the pocket of everyone, including you. We also pay for the low salarys of people as the tax credits and other in work benefits have to come from our pockets as well . What is the big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfp123 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) Thats the same for everything and anything we are all interconected and dependent on each other . But the tube drivers get a good pay packet ( not megga bucks like many in the city of London ) and so many people want to cut them back . Just sounds like sour grapes. its more a case of wastage or inefficiency. its not just the fact of paying someone 50k but paying someone 50k when its maybe not necessary. thats wasting taxpayers money. is it really a 50k job? when its in the private sector thats a different issue to people being paid out of the taxation of others. like you say, people are subsidised by taxpayers everyday, and because people dont think that being a tube driver warrants 50k, its another case of people being subsidised using your money. Edited October 3, 2011 by mfp123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gardener Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 We also pay for the low salarys of people as the tax credits and other in work benefits have to come from our pockets as well . What is the big difference. Miko, you just don't understand the British mentality. There is a certain section of the population who always want to do others down even if they are not materially affected by the situation at all. It really is sad and pathetic. I get the same thing all the time due to my part-time working. Apparently I'm not a real worker, I'm never there, I'm not committed etc. It's very boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Bart' Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Wanting a deal linked to RPI Who can blame them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Miko, you just don't understand the British mentality. There is a certain section of the population who always want to do others down even if they are not materially affected by the situation at all. It really is sad and pathetic. I get the same thing all the time due to my part-time working. Apparently I'm not a real worker, I'm never there, I'm not committed etc. It's very boring. you appear to be confusing 10,000 years of economic history with office politics, not so much boring as offensive, and 'sad and pathetic' is the kind of sentiment Marie Antoinette used to describe the poor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRMX9 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Nurses, doctors, firefighters, policemen and soldiers on the front line have had pay freezes for 2 years (and probably for the foreseeable future) - many of them put their lives on the line for us. Many private sector workers are in the same boat. Yet tube drivers who sit in a cab and press a button to open the doors ever 3 minutes have had a 10% pay rise in the last two years with the potential for another 20% over the next four years if RPI stays at current levels. And all of this is being paid for by another 8% rise in bus and tube fares in London - rises which hit the lowest paid workers most of all. We really should be appalled and disgusted about this - it really should be front page news. How much longer are we going to allow our capital city to be blackmailed by these people with their jobs for life and never advertised jobs (all passed to mates and relatives). We have 500,000 people unemployed in London who could easily fill these roles with a little training after all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Nurses, doctors, firefighters, policemen and soldiers on the front line have had pay freezes for 2 years (and probably for the foreseeable future) - many of them put their lives on the line for us. Many private sector workers are in the same boat. Yet tube drivers who sit in a cab and press a button to open the doors ever 3 minutes have had a 10% pay rise in the last two years with the potential for another 20% over the next four years if RPI stays at current levels. And all of this is being paid for by another 8% rise in bus and tube fares in London - rises which hit the lowest paid workers most of all. We really should be appalled and disgusted about this - it really should be front page news. How much longer are we going to allow our capital city to be blackmailed by these people with their jobs for life and never advertised jobs (all passed to mates and relatives). We have 500,000 people unemployed in London who could easily fill these roles with a little training after all! coming from a disgruntled working class londoner (you sound like one) this further impresses on me the likelihood that at some point, if they stay in power in London and also Westminster, they will automate the tube and take on the unions, relying on the sentiment expressed here by you to hold out thru the inevitable strike i do wonder, as an aside, however, if there is any major international city's metro system that is NOT heavily unionised? I'm thinking Paris metro is notorious for strikes, is there any that is not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singlemalt Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) £50k is not a reasonably salary to do a reasonable job, neither is £35k for for throwing a black sack into the back of a truck. People out there invest 5 extra years in education (and now a lot of money) to educate themselves in a career that actually contributes to society and still do not earn this sort of money. £50k is a huge wad of money to earn each year, especially for a role that is basically a service sector job equivalent to flipping a burger. Are you serious? I'd argue that the woman cleaning the hospital ward, the bin man collecting rubbish, the man driving the train or the care worker looking after the elderly actually contibute more to society than most who have invested in 'extra years' of education (myself included). If they earn a decent wage for doing it then that's fine with me. How does someone getting paid less, more or the same for doing less, more or the same have any impact on me? edited for spelling Edited October 4, 2011 by singlemalt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efdemin Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 coming from a disgruntled working class londoner (you sound like one) this further impresses on me the likelihood that at some point, if they stay in power in London and also Westminster, they will automate the tube and take on the unions, relying on the sentiment expressed here by you to hold out thru the inevitable strike i do wonder, as an aside, however, if there is any major international city's metro system that is NOT heavily unionised? I'm thinking Paris metro is notorious for strikes, is there any that is not? Seriously? Isn't the Singapore one almost all automatic? I'm not sure if the idea of a western style workers' union exists in say, Tokyo or Seoul? Or is this a backhanded union-bashing post instead of looking at the people who are driving the strikes themselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efdemin Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Nurses, doctors, firefighters, policemen and soldiers on the front line have had pay freezes for 2 years (and probably for the foreseeable future) - many of them put their lives on the line for us. Many private sector workers are in the same boat. Yet tube drivers who sit in a cab and press a button to open the doors ever 3 minutes have had a 10% pay rise in the last two years with the potential for another 20% over the next four years if RPI stays at current levels. And all of this is being paid for by another 8% rise in bus and tube fares in London - rises which hit the lowest paid workers most of all. We really should be appalled and disgusted about this - it really should be front page news. How much longer are we going to allow our capital city to be blackmailed by these people with their jobs for life and never advertised jobs (all passed to mates and relatives). We have 500,000 people unemployed in London who could easily fill these roles with a little training after all! Until about August 2012. Fairplay to them, they have one of biggest bargaining chips a Union has ever had and they're making the most of it. I'm just glad I don't work or live in London. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Boy Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Good luck to the tube drivers. I would not bother to get out of bed for £50k let alone work in the gloom of the underground for hours at a time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StainlessSteelCat Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Good luck to the tube drivers. I would not bother to get out of bed for £50k let alone work in the gloom of the underground for hours at a time Agreed. And personally - if anything goes wrong in the middle of those tunnels - I'd be rather glad to have at least one person on the train who is likely to know their way around them. Read plenty of stories about tube drivers leading people to safety after breakdown or worse. Good luck to them (esp. as a previous poster noted - the bargaining chip is likely to disappear next year). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaevictus Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) What do subway train drivers get paid in New York? It's expensive to live there. Would be nice to see the comparison. Also, driving a subway train in New York probably pays danger pay. Crazy terrorists with Russian accents love to take over subway trains and kill the driver. That's if what happens in the movies are true... Market forces should drive these pay scales. I am sure that people would prefer to drive a subway train rather than a bus around london, and the pay should reflect that. edit: seems that new york transit conductors get about $50K Edited October 4, 2011 by Vaevictus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 This is interesting. There is a lot of 'Good on them' 'Why wouldn't they' 'I would do the same' 'Good luck to them getting all they can' about on this thread. Which I can see the point of. Then again - why does this not apply to the much hated 'bankers' in London as well ? Because they don't do a real job ? Because they have been part of the mess this country is in ? Well perhaps. But then again - just like the tube drivers - they are holding the City of London to ransom - and getting away with it for their personal gain. Why 'good luck' to one of these groups and 'they should be hung up and burned alive' to the other ? You can't have your cake and eat it. If you accept that people can go out and get what they want this way - then the same has to go for Tube drivers, Bankers, Doctors and anyone else for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.