'i'm Not Having It': Moment Cameron And Clegg Were Shown Who's Boss During Hospital Visit

[erranta]

<br />Arrogant tw@t. Who the hell does he think he is? He is just a f*cking doctor who should act like he is a servant of the people instead of swanning around like he owns the f*cking place.<br />

Surely he does run it and it's his 'rep' on the line?

Cos him & his staff will get the bum-wrap if any of his patients get an infection.

[erranta]

<br />...it was comical to watch....but I bet that surgeon was all full of his own self importance.....there is a way of dealing with things you may not agree with, he certainly did not show professional decorum. <img src='http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /><br />

The abuse of alcohol is a much more common problem than most people realize, including surgeons

25 Jul 2005 ... Aims: This study was designed to describe the alcohol use by female surgeons and the hazards of their drinking habits

Hazardous alcohol use among hospital doctors

Hungover Surgeons Make More Mistakes: Study - Addiction

Some also self-medicate with Tranquilizers Morphine Opiates etc

[SurgeonGeneral]

Who does he think he is? He's a surgeon. He's good at his job, and his job is doing something that people are desperate to have.

As to wages - surgeons in the NHS make big money on the side in the private sector, from private patients.

His perfectly adequate response is that daily WE beg him to heal us and he does so.

IMO a man with excellent credentials to tell a media crew where they get off.

Yay!

ps most of us make small change privately, though a Guys man.....

Nick

[Shrink Proof]

Surely he does run it and it's his 'rep' on the line?

Cos him & his staff will get the bum-wrap if any of his patients get an infection.

Well they will, but there's more to it than that.

Medics are repeatedly bombarded with meddlesome, micro-managing dictats from the managment about things they have to do to reduce infections (MRSA, etc.). Stuff like bare below the elbows, no ties, etc. And repeatedly told that if they don't do these things it's a disciplinary matter.

BUT.

All of the research that's been done shows that these things make no difference whatsoever to ward infection rates. None at all. The only factor that has been convincingly shown to make an impact on ward infection rates is the amount & quality of cleaning. Which, thanks to policies supported by ALL politicians of ALL parties, has plummeted since ward cleaners were removed from the ward team & contracted out (yes, they really were part of the team & really did feel that they were doing their bit - I know, I was there in those days). The arrival of frequently changing, poorly paid & unmotivated "cleaners" from private contractors has resulted in a massive drop in standards - dirty hospitals are now the norm. Even just one hour's extra cleaning per day results in a significant reduction in cross-infection rates.

When medics have attempted to point out to politicians & managers that money is being wasted on window dressing (like enforcing dress codes) which could otherwise be spent on things that actually improve outcomes for patients, management has made their lives hell. The frustration of knowing that things could be better if the money was spent differently (NOT more money, just redirecting it) is difficult to describe & accounts for the surgeon's anger.

But it suits the politicians to blame the medics rather than to admit that their failed policies are killing patients.

So nothing changes.

[erranta]

<br />Well they will, but there's more to it than that. <br /><br />Medics are repeatedly bombarded with meddlesome, micro-managing dictats from the managment about things they <b>have</b> to do to reduce infections (MRSA, etc.). Stuff like bare below the elbows, no ties, etc. And repeatedly told that if they don't do these things it's a disciplinary matter.<br /><br />BUT.<br /><br />All of the research that's been done shows that these things make <i>no difference whatsoever</i> to ward infection rates. None at all. The only factor that has been convincingly shown to make an impact on ward infection rates is the amount & quality of cleaning. Which, thanks to policies supported by ALL politicians of ALL parties, has plummeted since ward cleaners were removed from the ward team & contracted out (yes, they really were part of the team & really did feel that they were doing their bit - I know, I was there in those days). The arrival of frequently changing, poorly paid & unmotivated "cleaners" from private contractors has resulted in a massive drop in standards - dirty hospitals are now the norm. Even just one hour's extra cleaning per day results in a significant reduction in cross-infection rates.<br /><br />When medics have attempted to point out to politicians & managers that money is being wasted on window dressing (like enforcing dress codes) which could otherwise be spent on things that actually improve outcomes for patients, management has made their lives hell. The frustration of knowing that things could be better if the money was spent differently (NOT more money, just redirecting it) is difficult to describe & accounts for the surgeon's anger.

But it suits the politicians to blame the medics rather than to admit that their failed policies are killing patients.

So nothing changes.

Just think how easy it was for bent, evil, 'plants' acting as cleaners spreading the infections around the wards undetected in order that 'outside' contractors costing the taxpayer 5x as much were guaranteed the contracts and signed off by the Trojan bent 'common purpose' top management!

[Lepista]

Well they will, but there's more to it than that.

Medics are repeatedly bombarded with meddlesome, micro-managing dictats from the managment about things they have to do to reduce infections (MRSA, etc.). Stuff like bare below the elbows, no ties, etc. And repeatedly told that if they don't do these things it's a disciplinary matter.

BUT.

All of the research that's been done shows that these things make no difference whatsoever to ward infection rates. None at all. The only factor that has been convincingly shown to make an impact on ward infection rates is the amount & quality of cleaning. Which, thanks to policies supported by ALL politicians of ALL parties, has plummeted since ward cleaners were removed from the ward team & contracted out (yes, they really were part of the team & really did feel that they were doing their bit - I know, I was there in those days). The arrival of frequently changing, poorly paid & unmotivated "cleaners" from private contractors has resulted in a massive drop in standards - dirty hospitals are now the norm. Even just one hour's extra cleaning per day results in a significant reduction in cross-infection rates.

When medics have attempted to point out to politicians & managers that money is being wasted on window dressing (like enforcing dress codes) which could otherwise be spent on things that actually improve outcomes for patients, management has made their lives hell. The frustration of knowing that things could be better if the money was spent differently (NOT more money, just redirecting it) is difficult to describe & accounts for the surgeon's anger.

But it suits the politicians to blame the medics rather than to admit that their failed policies are killing patients.

So nothing changes.

If that's true, and he looks old enough to realise that, then why did he get into such a hissy fit about it?

[mitchbux]

And I would hazard a guess that more people have died from doctor incompetence. Rather have someone in my corner that gets stuff done than someone who puts pleasantries first.

Some of that incompetence being caused by arrogance. Snap diagnosis, and failing to listen to patient symptoms and concerns at best wastes the patients time, or NHS money on incorrect treatment, at worst it damages or kills.

I developed a condition five years ago, and my inital consultant listened, questioned, and took on board the answers. I got the right diagnosis first time, swiftly went through all the right tests, and was referred on for 'best practice' (non-surgical) treatment very quickly.

I've met someone else with the same condition, who incidentally has been dealing with the same hospital that Mr Nunn works at, and he's had the same inappropriate operation (has never and would never be used to treat this condition) four times. Not once has his consultant started to question his inital diagnosis as a reason for the failure of these ops. Poor bloke had to self-diagnose, contacted other sufferers for advice on where best to get a referral, and then went back to his GP to plead for it.

Be afraid of arrogance in clinicians, be very afraid.

Edited June 16, 2011 by mitchbux

[Shrink Proof]

If that's true, and he looks old enough to realise that, then why did he get into such a hissy fit about it?

Because he's been going on about it for ages - someone posted a clip from his letter to the press about it in 2007. Medics are still getting threatened with being formally disciplined for non-compliance with policies that are pointless, whilst those that point out what would work are pilloried to protect the politicians.

Which is likely to be why he got so terminally angry to see politicians being allowed to flaunt the dress codes when he'd get suspended for doing the same.

Not saying that yelling & shouting is appropriate, just trying to point out why he night have been frustrated to the point of blowing his stack.

[mdman]

If that's true, and he looks old enough to realise that, then why did he get into such a hissy fit about it?

This is a few inches above your post!

why he had the hissy fit

[Ethel]

This is a letter written by Mr Nunn, the consultant in question, back in 2007:

I remember vividly at the time Alan Johnson was dealing with the MRSA catastrophe by blaming medical staff. This gave a green light for managers to bully, humiliate and harass clinicians on the pretext of 'infection control'. I applaud Mr Nunn for losing it, but accept that to those who don't know his background, he may simply come off as a pompous stickler for the rules.

So perhaps the whole debacle was a clever publicity stunt designed to draw attention to an issue he wants to see addressed.