Buying Bars From Coininvestdirect?

[auag]

I recently ordered 20g gold bar from CID... but was surprised to receive a Heraeus 20g gold bar while the website displays an image of a UBS bar

The Heraeus bar does not come with a certificate or any kind of fancy packing...was a tad disappointed to be honest..

how reliable is Coininvestdirect for gold bars? has anybody else here ordered gold bars from CID?

[DiggerUK]

CID are a sound outfit. No need to worry about certificates.

If you check the site, you will see that they tell you, that what you get, is what you get.

Don't worry, gold is gold.

Edited May 7, 2011 by DiggerUK

[Errol]

The type of bar is irrelevant. I think they say that you may not get the bar pictured.

CiD are very reliable. Many people use them.

[Lagarde's Drift]

I sometimes dream of them. Ciddddddddd

[Take Me Back To London!]

I recently ordered 20g gold bar from CID... but was surprised to receive a Heraeus 20g gold bar while the website displays an image of a UBS bar

The Heraeus bar does not come with a certificate or any kind of fancy packing...was a tad disappointed to be honest..

how reliable is Coininvestdirect for gold bars? has anybody else here ordered gold bars from CID?

There is this note on the page regarding 20g bars.

We reserve the right to supply similar products form recognised manufacturers, such as, Heraeus, Umicore/Degussa and UBS. However, all gold bars have been inspected and have a fineness of 999.9/1000. Certificates are not always available.

However, you can email them and they will list the available bars they have, manufacturers, sealed, not sealed and with or without certificates. They will send you the type you prefer. They are always helpful.

[Number79]

However, you can email them and they will list the available bars they have, manufacturers, sealed, not sealed and with or without certificates. They will send you the type you prefer. They are always helpful.

I wouldnt hold your breath though. They are always helpful on the phone but....

I once ordered a number of sovs, all vics and I asked for them to be all pre 1900 - the older the better, a good spread of years please.

I received a quantity of sovs soon after, every single one was dated 1900.

That isnt the only fk up either but they are quick, reasonably priced and can be trusted.

[Take Me Back To London!]

I wouldnt hold your breath though. They are always helpful on the phone but....

I once ordered a number of sovs, all vics and I asked for them to be all pre 1900 - the older the better, a good spread of years please.

I received a quantity of sovs soon after, every single one was dated 1900.

That isnt the only fk up either but they are quick, reasonably priced and can be trusted.

I remember reading about your Victorian sovereign order a few years back on here, which I thought was amusing. They must of had another communications ****-up in the dispatch department in Germany and instead of sending you various dated coins, they did the opposite and went through their stock meticulously for all 1900 coins.

I have had a few fk ups with them as well, sending out 3 orders to an old address which had been deleted from my account and a new address sent up and clearly on the invoice etc, but remained firmly fixed on the dispatch department's computer. Or feckin' up the printing on the address label and confusing the courier.

[Number79]

I remember reading about your Victorian sovereign order a few years back on here, which I thought was amusing. They must of had another communications ****-up in the dispatch department in Germany and instead of sending you various dated coins, they did the opposite and went through their stock meticulously for all 1900 coins.

I have had a few fk ups with them as well, sending out 3 orders to an old address which had been deleted from my account and a new address sent up and clearly on the invoice etc, but remained firmly fixed on the dispatch department's computer. Or feckin' up the printing on the address label and confusing the courier.

am glad you found it so funny. Hey, want to buy a vic sov, 1900 pretty rare but I may have more than one?

Yeah, the language is an issue, the women on the end of the line here are boxheads too normally but tbf they try their best and I still rate the company pretty well.

[Hexagon]

Are there any other charges to take into consideration when buying from CID?

eg. A courier wanting customs or import charges at the door.

Or is it just price + VAT(silver) + shipping?

[Lagarde's Drift]

Read the faqs. If you use their shipment then it is fully insured and taxed up till the point you sign for it.

[MikeinNI]

Why do Coin Invest Direct charge the 20% VAT rate when posting to the UK?

Since they are operating in the EU, there isn't any extra VAT to be paid at the UK border, where is the extra money going?

[Lagarde's Drift]

Why do Coin Invest Direct charge the 20% VAT rate when posting to the UK?

Since they are operating in the EU, there isn't any extra VAT to be paid at the UK border, where is the extra money going?

Really? I wonder how the customs officer would respond if I pitched up with loads of silver for which I only paid German VAT.

[Errol]

A gold bar is a gold bar. Who cares what the picture is on the front?

[ken_ichikawa]

Really? I wonder how the customs officer would respond if I pitched up with loads of silver for which I only paid German VAT.

They are like cops they use peoples ignorance against them, you can order any silver coins you want as long as it is legal tender = no VAT.

A bloke bought a monster box of eagles, as insurance he contacted HMRC first and got written advice from them. When presented with such charges he presented the HMRC advice to the couriers. And he got it VAT free.

The VAT helpline should erm help, problem is you'll spend 1-2 hours being bounced between departments.

The key test I think is that you can spend the silver coins as normal currency like the special .925 coins we get in the UK sometimes. Thus they are currency AND circulated.

[MikeinNI]

Really? I wonder how the customs officer would respond if I pitched up with loads of silver for which I only paid German VAT.

You only have to pay VAT once, I have ordered many things from amazon.de for example of high value, no extra charge, they don't even pass customs.

Alcohol and tobacco has a separate excise duty, which must be added on top. No such tax exists for precious metals.

[MikeinNI]

From HMRC's own website

"VAT is a tax normally charged on the supply of goods (and services) made by a VAT registered business in the UK. For goods brought in or sent to the UK from the EU there's no extra VAT to pay unless you're ordering or sending purchased goods from one of the EU Special Territories, such as Jersey or Guernsey, in which case you'll have to pay Import VAT."

[Lagarde's Drift]

I see what you're saying.

There should not be a different VAT rate for UK deliveries from Germany compared to buying it yourself in Germany. Indeed, CID themsevlves offer a special German VAT rate for all colleections in person (or privately arranged courier). So, why are they charging 20% VAT for deliveries to the UK?

I have no idea why.

I've been a happy customer in the past, paying 17.5% VAT as the deliveries were free, the silver stuff was reliable, and the base cost was usually lower than other UK dealers. I'm not sure that has changed that much recently but of course, an extra 12% tax on silver these days is rather more significant.

[Lagarde's Drift]

Hmmm, read the damn FAQs!

Do you only speak English?

Our head office is located in London, but we are able to speak and understand the following languages: English, German, French, Spanish and Dansk.

Who is behind CoinInvestDirect.com ?

CoinInvestDirect is wholly owned by Jewellers Trade Services Partners (JTSPLP). JTSPLP is a company under the law of England and Wales with the Partnership no. LP 011660, registered in London, United Kingdom.

You can see the list of partners on: www.companieshouse.gov.uk

Why is the head office in London?

Because of the volume of our gold deals, it is advantageous to be in the center of the biggest gold market in Europe: London. Banks and dealers in London are used to handling large quantities of gold. We deal directly in this market, and consequently keep our costs at a minimum.

This, of course, does not mean that they aren't profiting from the VAT arbitrage.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Cash with Nowhere to Go

[MikeinNI]

I didn't see that location either.

Having not used them (yet) I wasn't sure where there metals were sent from, or originated from.

They still seem to be about the cheapest for silver at the moment, I will probably make an order at the end of the month of a sov and some oz silver.

[jonb]

I see what you're saying.

There should not be a different VAT rate for UK deliveries from Germany compared to buying it yourself in Germany. Indeed, CID themsevlves offer a special German VAT rate for all colleections in person (or privately arranged courier). So, why are they charging 20% VAT for deliveries to the UK?

I have no idea why.

I've been a happy customer in the past, paying 17.5% VAT as the deliveries were free, the silver stuff was reliable, and the base cost was usually lower than other UK dealers. I'm not sure that has changed that much recently but of course, an extra 12% tax on silver these days is rather more significant.

Because, if, as a German trader, you sell more than £70k of goods per year into the UK, you have to register for UK VAT and account for it to HMRC rather than the German authorities. If you arrange to collect it yourself, then they are selling to Germany, not the UK, so the charge German VAT.

See http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/forms-rates/rates/rates-thresholds.htm

[MikeinNI]

Because, if, as a German trader, you sell more than £70k of goods per year into the UK, you have to register for UK VAT and account for it to HMRC rather than the German authorities. If you arrange to collect it yourself, then they are selling to Germany, not the UK, so the charge German VAT.

See http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/forms-rates/rates/rates-thresholds.htm

That solves it then, I was thinking solely from a consumer POV.

Should have realised HMRC will get our money one way or the other.

[Lagarde's Drift]

Because, if, as a German trader, you sell more than £70k of goods per year into the UK, you have to register for UK VAT and account for it to HMRC rather than the German authorities. If you arrange to collect it yourself, then they are selling to Germany, not the UK, so the charge German VAT.

See http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/forms-rates/rates/rates-thresholds.htm

Thanks for that.

I do wonder, though, if I were to set up a courier company specialising in this particular scenario, would I be able to make money as a separate entity?

Ie I'm not buying/selling, just collecting (in Germany, at 7% VAT) to courier to the UK for a private client.

[thod]

I do wonder, though, if I were to set up a courier company specialising in this particular scenario, would I be able to make money as a separate entity?

Ie I'm not buying/selling, just collecting (in Germany, at 7% VAT) to courier to the UK for a private client.

A courier does not own the goods he transports. These companies already have courier services. To avoid the rules you would have to buy the silver in Germany and transport it back as your own goods. You would have to remain under the VAT registration limit.

The legislation is the EU distance selling regulations which cover not only VAT but also rights and obligations when buying across borders. http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/resources/documents/taxation/vat/traders/vat_community/dec2007/vat_ec_uk_en.pdf

[LC1]

They are like cops they use peoples ignorance against them, you can order any silver coins you want as long as it is legal tender = no VAT.

A bloke bought a monster box of eagles, as insurance he contacted HMRC first and got written advice from them. When presented with such charges he presented the HMRC advice to the couriers. And he got it VAT free.

The VAT helpline should erm help, problem is you'll spend 1-2 hours being bounced between departments.

The key test I think is that you can spend the silver coins as normal currency like the special .925 coins we get in the UK sometimes. Thus they are currency AND circulated.

Great anecdote - has anyone else tried this and successfully avoided the VAT?

[inspector]

Great anecdote - has anyone else tried this and successfully avoided the VAT?

An alternative to this course of action would be to claim back the VAT from HMRC if the VAT has been paid to the supplier.

(Assuming the same circumstances as described by Ken)