Vitamin D Supplements

[Kurt Barlow]

I might have been in your year.

Bit further up the M11 from BS- Sawston!

[TeddyBear]

Take two aspirin and wait and see? - Oh yes, that seems to be standard NHS response, except, it's usually two paracetomol to be fair.

[Kurt Barlow]

Take two aspirin and wait and see? - Oh yes, that seems to be standard NHS response, except, it's usually two paracetomol to be fair.

Quite - my Saudi Neuro thought I must have flown to Somalia when I relayed my story

I saw on the 'other' site a thread about KSA with a lot of negative comments. I am not going to engage at all given my location. However here I get interferon B minimising potentially massive damage to my nerves. One policy - do the best for the patient.

In the Uk the NHS can afford to send deliquents on surfing holidays, give sparrow titted chavs breast implants, and remove tatoos off knuckle heads yet would only give me interferon once I am half crippled.

Now tell me which is the more fecked up Country?

[Kurt Barlow]

I don't think any of these supplements will cure the hypochondria you lot are suffering from!

Read my posts a few pages on and think again Mr. P

[Kurt Barlow]

Well when you get back home for a holiday I can think of a few things you should do to cheer you up.

LOL - I wanted to check that dept for neuro damage but Internet p0rn is a complete no no where I am! The best stimulator I could find was a pic of Ester Ranztens juggs in a copy of Hello I picked up free at Dubai airport

[MrPin]

Read my posts a few pages on and think again Mr. P

Wasn't directed at you Mr Barlow!

Sorry to hear that you have had a bit of an illness!

I'm just not a fan of supplements, when a good diet, and "moving around a bit more", will probably do more for the

average person, than pills and extreme weight training!

Can't help noticing how near these "dietary supplements" are to the microwave burger ready meals in the supermarket!

[Kurt Barlow]

Sorry to hear that, MS is one of the illnesses in my family that I was refering to when I said we have a number of illnesses where D deficiency is found.

Do get your B12 blood levels checked as well - very important for brains and nerves and make sure you keep it right up at the top end of what's in range - the NHS allows for a really big range as "normal".

Did they warn you about the mental health side effects of IV and high dose steroids? They can make you a bit manic, like you think you can rule the world so don't take any major decisions while you're on high doses - and be prepared to feel down when the dose lowers. They also make you eat like a horse (hence my previous post wondering if that effect when I'm on VitD is related to the steroid effect).

There's some new research going on about hormone levels, as they see that pregnant women often improve when progesterone levels are high and relapse after birth when progesterone levels dip. All theoretical at the moment but could be worth getting hormone levels checked out too, although I imagine that's harder for a bloke than a woman.

Funny enough I went into the office this morning to hand in some paperwork etc. Had a weird sensation and then a panic attack. Doc checked me over and gave me a sedative. Said its quite normal for people at my stage to overreact to every little change in body sensation. I said to my Saudi room mate that if I kept eating like I was on steroids I would end up with a nice set of 38DD's

I have asked if I get a full vit check on my bloods - partly because when I return to the Uk for a repat I am going to try Helminthic therapy as a compliment to my current treatment.

[Kurt Barlow]

Well when you get back home for a holiday I can think of a few things you should do to cheer you up.

I think Angel might be a bit dissapopinted with the party cocktail sausage after 5 days of IV steroids, anxiety and stress

[Kurt Barlow]

Take two aspirin and wait and see? - Oh yes, that seems to be standard NHS response, except, it's usually two paracetomol to be fair.

Naurally in the worlds best health care system one would expect a choice of at least two NSAID's

[ccc]

I think Angel might be a bit dissapopinted with the party cocktail sausage after 5 days of IV steroids, anxiety and stress

I am sure as a consumate professional she would act accordingly

[Kurt Barlow]

Wasn't directed at you Mr Barlow!

Sorry to hear that you have had a bit of an illness!

I'm just not a fan of supplements, when a good diet, and "moving around a bit more", will probably do more for the

average person, than pills and extreme weight training!

Can't help noticing how near these "dietary supplements" are to the microwave burger ready meals in the supermarket!

Much of the complimentary appraoches to MS are based on blood analysis and looking at depletions of particular minerals. In MS sufferers. For example Molybdenum seems to get depleted and there is a reasonable body of evidence that supplementation helps in the fight. Other minerals include zinc and iron. Whilst I agree in normally cases a balanced diet is fine when you are fighting a progressive, incurable crippling, painful disease you need to start targeting the deficits to give you the best chance of staying in remission / minimising damage in attacks. The only way you can do this is with supplements with assured volumes in them.

[The Masked Tulip]

Totally agree but Vit D is the only substance not found in a suitable enough quantity in the balanced diet that is suitable for todays lifestyle of being out of the sun for vast amounts of time through out our lives.

Its already recognised the rich live longer http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250129/The-rich-live-seven-years-longer-poor-people.html and what I suggest is the rich enjoy more holidays in the sun.

Afterall being out in the sun makes us happier and healthier but with todays lifestyle of mainly office bound ie indoors and then coming home vegging out infront of the TV we are not getting imo the amount of sunshine we need in our lives for a truly complete healthy lifestyle ie VitD.

I'm not saying VitD is a panacea though becuase we know that stress is bad for our healths and recent research also suggests it takes 19hrs to forget about work at the weekend. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/11/20/brits-get-27-hr-weekends-115875-22726496/ ie 19hrs for stress levels to reduce somewhat.

Going on more holidays as a rich person also helps which still backs up the need for a balanced lifestyle ie that work life balance is just as important as a healthy diet.

Ricketts was only 'discovered' when the UK underwent the Industrial Revolution and millions of people moved from working in the fields and outdoors to working inside in the mills and factories. It took nearly a 100 years from the first 'discovery' of ricketts to scientists working out what the cause was - even Einstein devoted effort to figuring this out.

[Kurt Barlow]

Ricketts was only 'discovered' when the UK underwent the Industrial Revolution and millions of people moved from working in the fields and outdoors to working inside in the mills and factories. It took nearly a 100 years from the first 'discovery' of ricketts to scientists working out what the cause was - even Einstein devoted effort to figuring this out.

It is virtually universal in the female population where I am.

Not suggesting that Saudi ladies should bare themselves like westerners but for their health it would be good if they had access to secluded female only areas to uncover their skin.

[Kurt Barlow]

I would also suggest that it might also contribute to radical behaviour as well.

Now this might seem like a racist thing to say but its not.

Per capita in this country using Govt stats there is a distinct increase in the number of crimes committed by non caucausions in this country.

I would suggest the darker skin prevents the absorbtion of UV-B light and thus inhibits VitD production. This could also explain why radicalism is more prevalent in some foreign countries as well like the one you are in.

I doubt it - the men are not required to cover up in the same way. Plenty of saudi guys young and old can be seen wearing short sleeves. Shorts uncommon unless playing football. Occasionally you see saudi women without their heads covered (would usually be confident business class), some opt for head covering, face uncovered but many it is full abaya. Extreme examples include covering eyes and wearing gloves!

Most people here are pretty relaxed (except when they drive ). Infact providing you respect the cultural issues particularly seggrregation of males and females and do not insult the prophet (peace be upon him) whose word is taken literally (NO QUESTIONS) people are far more laid back than in the UK.

The govt here know about the Vit D problem which is why many foods are fortified. Here on the compounds they have ladies only swimming sessions so there are opportunities for muslim ladies to dress down in private (well in female only company) if they wish.

[Kurt Barlow]

Ricketts was only 'discovered' when the UK underwent the Industrial Revolution and millions of people moved from working in the fields and outdoors to working inside in the mills and factories. It took nearly a 100 years from the first 'discovery' of ricketts to scientists working out what the cause was - even Einstein devoted effort to figuring this out.

The other factor was lack of dietary calcium. In the 2nd World war a practical way to fortify bread was to add chalk dust.

[The Masked Tulip]

The other factor was lack of dietary calcium. In the 2nd World war a practical way to fortify bread was to add chalk dust.

You can take all the calcium in the World but if you do not have enough D3 your bones will not absorb the calcium - hence ricketts and osteomalacia.

[Kurt Barlow]

Radicalism isnt the social norm, its the ends of the ends of the bell curve. Likewise the Govt over here fortifies food with VitD like Margarine but we still see Ricketts in 20% of the kids who visited a Southampton consultant.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5hOLqPkdW4BCyW7vFy1s2UncXMxpg?docId=N0032011289560703465A

I think its worthy of a study at the very least and the some of the UK prison population who are locked up all the time might also be very low in VitD due to their incarceration which if found to be a link and thus treated could also reduce repeat offending.

Interesting point about prison populations. May also expalin some of the deliquency in the play station generation. In anycase their diet usually consists of crisps and lemonade neither of which get fortified.

[TeddyBear]

The problem with "just a healthy diet" is that our over farmed soil means that the the vit and mineral comment of average supermarket fruit and veg is much lower than it used to be. There's also theories that people ate a lot more insects etc inadvertently in food pre mass insecticide that injected extra protein and iron, especially into vegetarian diets.

Vit D effect on mental health is fascinating and there have been various experiments for psychosis etc. relativity. It was one of those in a psychiatric hospital that observed that the ward where the testing was taking place was the one where no one caught the flu going around the hospital.

Vit D, as a secosteroid, raises testosterone levels so it would also explain a tendency to display more assertive, "hothead" behaviour with higher levels.

If women in Saudi are getting rickets, I will shudder even more when I see the fully covered women (and teenagers) around London. It's such a sick practice. I presume that historically women forced into this dress lived in womens' quarters with private outside spaces where women could spent part of the day without being covered.

[Kurt Barlow]

The problem with "just a healthy diet" is that our over farmed soil means that the the vit and mineral comment of average supermarket fruit and veg is much lower than it used to be. There's also theories that people ate a lot more insects etc inadvertently in food pre mass insecticide that injected extra protein and iron, especially into vegetarian diets.

Vit D effect on mental health is fascinating and there have been various experiments for psychosis etc. relativity. It was one of those in a psychiatric hospital that observed that the ward where the testing was taking place was the one where no one caught the flu going around the hospital.

Vit D, as a secosteroid, raises testosterone levels so it would also explain a tendency to display more assertive, "hothead" behaviour with higher levels.

If women in Saudi are getting rickets, I will shudder even more when I see the fully covered women (and teenagers) around London. It's such a sick practice. I presume that historically women forced into this dress lived in womens' quarters with private outside spaces where women could spent part of the day without being covered.

Its a custom that is ingrained, probably long before islam and obviously a very sensitive subject.

Talking to the Lebanese women I work with was a most enlightening experience. They dress modestly but not to extremes. According to them the social pressure to cover up is largely from other women. As a muslim woman in a shopping mall you are unlikely to get major hassle (starred at yes) for going about without a head covering by the men, its the other women - who will come up hiss, spit, criticise, call in the Muttawa.

[JoeDavola]

I've had my D3 10,000 ui tabs for a week now (havent been on them for a few months as I let it slip) at 50,000ui per day (2.5hrs) and my energy levels, metal sharpness, quick wittedness and libido have gone through the roof, I get out of bed now with the same enthusiam as I had when I was kid, I dont feel stressed either, everything is like water of a ducks back for me.

Can I just check I've read that right - you're taking 50,000UI a day, i.e. 350,000UI a week?!

Hey if it's working for you then fair play to you!

[The Masked Tulip]

Yep thats correct and I've been giving my dog 10k ui a day as well and his energy levels have gone through the roof and his obedience has improved as well. Should also bear in mind though thats only 2.5hrs out in summer sunshine though so not exactly a huge amount imo but is contrary to all medical notes I've read so far.

My Gf a fitness instructor for the US mil has been doing the same and she's noticed an improvement as well although shes a week behind me as we dont live together.

I suspect diet has something to do with it though, as we are both huge meat eaters not so much processed but proper meat so it will have a naturally high salt content and salt is used to treat the main risk of VitD toxicity hypercalcemia although the VitD toxicity from what I've read comes from high doses of VitD2 not D3.

It will be interesting to see what others on here notice or feel with the ones that got the 10kui supplements to see if they noticed any change in mood or whatever.

You need to read this now.

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/vitaminDToxicity.shtml

[Darkman]

You need to read this now.

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/vitaminDToxicity.shtml

People need to make balanced judgements in this area using their own common sense. Just because some guy on the Vitamin D Council (!) says swallow all you can it doesn't necessarily follow that it's the right or safe thing to do.

I'm going to try 10Kiu for a while and see what happens. But I generally trust doctors and their medical advice. So I'm aware what I'm doing may be risky in ways I don't even know about yet.

Just a heads up.

[The Masked Tulip]

People need to make balanced judgements in this area using their own common sense. Just because some guy on the Vitamin D Council (!) says swallow all you can it doesn't necessarily follow that it's the right or safe thing to do.

I'm going to try 10Kiu for a while and see what happens. But I generally trust doctors and their medical advice. So I'm aware what I'm doing may be risky in ways I don't even know about yet.

Just a heads up.

Actually, if you read the above link Dr. John Carnell is not saying 'swallow all you can' and is actually warning, in a long and detailed article, of the dangers of over-dosing.

Perhaps you should read the articles linked to before commenting upon them?

[Darkman]

Actually, if you read the above link Dr. John Carnell is not saying 'swallow all you can' and is actually warning, in a long and detailed article, of the dangers of over-dosing.

Perhaps you should read the articles linked to before commenting upon them?

Well actually no, he isn't warning about the dangers of overdose really is he. It's a long article, with some brief mention of dangers to cancer sufferers etc, which generally promotes his theory that VitD is harmless. And just looking at the quotes I've plucked out below makes this rather obvious to anyone reading this thread. He didn't say swallow all you can, but he may as well have done.

VITAMIN D TOXICITY FEARS UNWARRANTED

Although D can be toxic in excess, the same can be said for water.

vitamin D has a therapeutic index of 10 (40,000/4,000)—twice as safe as water

sun exposure (minimal erythemal doses) may slightly increase your risk of skin cancer but it is a much smarter thing to do than dying of vitamin D deficiency.

in America today while worrying about vitamin D toxicity is like dying of thirst in the desert while worrying about drowning.

The problem with people getting too wound up in a new theory is that they take any criticism personally, hence your response? I'm trying to take a balanced view on something which could potentially have unknown side effects. On the face of it, opinion seems to be very positive. And I'm willing to give it a try.

But what I won't do is pop high dosage pills ignoring the possibility I could be making a serious mistake.

[ccc]

This is an interesting chat. 2.5 hours does not seem a lot of sun exposure - however every single day of your life ? Not sure if that would be classed as 'natural' or not for those living in Africa or Central America centuries ago. Wouldn't they have spent a lot of the middle of the day under shelter ? If they had it of course.

As for the dosage - hwo about how you take it ? Surely there must be some difference between absorbing it naturally through the skin and swallowing a pill in one go ?

Just interested and not criticising. Just not quite sure you can directly compare direct sunlight to popping a pill.