Long-Term Jobless "could Face Complusory Manual Labour"

[SHERWICK]

Never said we were.

Said that the largest cause of unemployment is environmental - specifically the financial system.

Why did I say this?

Because it's accurate. That it won't change any time soon in no way alters the accuracy.

The largest cause of unemployment is capitalism. It's cr*p but it's better than all the other systems.

[Harry Monk]

Getting people into a routine of getting up early

Why, are you under the impression that everybody who works starts work early in the morning?

[red11]

Link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-11704765

Long-term benefit claimants could be forced to do compulsory manual labour under proposals being put forward by the government, it has emerged...

I'm sure this will benefit a few unqualified workshy people, but for highly skilled professionals picking up litter isn't going to solve the problem.

This can only be seen as workfare or yet more undercutting of the lowest rung of the employment ladder.

[SHERWICK]

I'm sure this will benefit a few unqualified workshy people, but for highly skilled professionals picking up litter isn't going to solve the problem.

This can only be seen as workfare or yet more undercutting of the lowest rung of the employment ladder.

If someone is LONG TERM unemployed, then they aren't "highly skilled professionals".

[Injin]

The largest cause of unemployment is capitalism. It's cr*p but it's better than all the other systems.

No, it's central bank lending at interest.

amount of money - x

amount of money required to pay debts = x + y

y = amount of failed businesses and unemeployed.

And even if it is the best system this is still true. Saying it's inevitable changes no facts. (Ofc you only say it's inevitable because that gets you out of having to change your position.)

[chris25]

How do you know what is productive and useful and what is not?

I would say "productive" is not merely an economic term but also a cultural term.

An unemployed person who lives off the state but has productive hobbies such as vegetable growing, woodworking, instrument playing etc etc and plays a part in a community and has values and helps out others is culturally productive.

Where as a benefit scrounging woman who reproduces merely for state handouts, watches jeremy kyle all day, gets drunk all the time, gives her children junk food and doesn't teach them morals and respect, and does nothing for the community is both culturally and economically unproductive. Not only that but she is spreading her ways (like a bacteria splitting) to her children, who will all turn out to be culturally unproductive and just like her.

Anyone who is not economically or culturally productive and is able-bodied needs sterilising. End of.

[SHERWICK]

No, it's central bank lending at interest.

amount of money - x

amount of money required to pay debts = x + y

y = amount of failed businesses and unemeployed.

And even if it is the best system this is still true. Saying it's inevitable changes no facts. (Ofc you only say it's inevitable because that gets you out of having to change your position.)

[Tonkers]

Getting people into a routine of getting up early and not watching Jeremy Kyle ... it can only be a good thing..

Taking Jeremy Kyle off air would be a good start. Why do you think all unemployed people fall out of bed late and watch Jeremy Kyle? Unless you are unemployed and that's what you do?

[Harry Monk]

If someone is LONG TERM unemployed, then they aren't "highly skilled professionals".

My guess is that there will be many "highly skilled professionals". who will lose their jobs over the next year or two who will never work again.

[miko]

If someone is LONG TERM unemployed, then they aren't "highly skilled professionals".

How do you know that prove it

[ccc]

I doubt you even pay for your life.

Some poor f*ckers in China or Africa might be though.

Where does this 'everyone must work for their own good' meme come from by the way?

Why don't you want to sit on your ar5e all day writing, or creating music, or painting or philosophising like the ancient Greeks?

Why are you obsessed with labouring? It's really quite bizarre and unnatural you know - I'm with Mr Injin on this one.

I am not obsessed with labouring. Read what I said. ANYTHING. As long as people do SOMETHING then they have a point in life. That is all. Whether it is labouring or writing poetry I don't care. ANYTHING. And many in this country do NOTHING with their lives. They are wasted. There is no point in their existence. And yes I appreciate that some people in Africa may be paying for my lifestyle. However do I deny this ? NO. That is the difference. Many who say they 'can't get a job' are simply in denial of the truth. That is the problem I have with them.

Right, so stfu about the powerless really being merely feckless?

So who is it now getting all hot under the collar about things not directly related to them.... And no I will not STFU. I will air my opinions as I see fit. If that is ok. And where did I label any of these people 'feckless' ? Lazy is what I labelled them (Not all of them of course)

When you find yourself jobless in the future, just after filling out the 100th application form and still not receiving even an interview you may think very differently.

All this "I have a job, so therefore I am better than you and anyone who does not have a job is a lazy piece of sh6t" that seems to pop up on this forum is f'ing annoying.

It is only a matter of time before you loose your job judging by the way the situation is deteriorating.

Then feel free to express your opinion on unemployment.

I have been unemployed like most people. My solution ? I got work. Pretty simple.

Getting people into a routine of getting up early and not watching Jeremy Kyle ... it can only be a good thing..

Yep. Anything is better than people being bred to just sit and vegetate all day. Reverse eugenics. We will all suffer ultimately as a result.

[SHERWICK]

How do you know that prove it

True. Let me rephrase: if someone is LONG TERM unemployed, then they aren't highly skilled professionals whose skills are in demand today, and nor have their skills been in demand for some time (hence the LONG TERM unemployment).

[winkie]

No point in being against it, it's here. We just need to accept that there isn't work for all. There isn't work for me, but if I was sent out to clean the streets than that would simply put properly paid street cleaners out of work.

How would that help the economy? An economy needs people earning and spending to function properly.

That is the crux of the matter, if people can't earn they can't spend, if people earn a little they can't spend, if people are uncertain of the future the don't spend, if people have debt to pay the don't spend, if people can't get credit they don't spend.....so even fewer jobs for those without one......what a mess

[miko]

]I have been unemployed like most people. My solution ? I got work. Pretty simple.

So did I simple took a day or two , for anyone with a bit of sense and a good work history. But I was 25 then and that was 1989 .

Go forward 20 years 2009 and it took months and months being 45 is very different from 25 especialy now. Pretty simple

Factor's against by then include age, outsourcing, cheap labour , more people for less jobs, an attitude that you can not change type of job at that age, attitude that if they do give you a job you won't stay. NMW is higher for those over 22 than under , list go's on and on. Not simple

Edited November 8, 2010 by miko

[miko]

True. Let me rephrase: if someone is LONG TERM unemployed, then they aren't highly skilled professionals whose skills are in demand today, and nor have their skills been in demand for some time (hence the LONG TERM unemployment).

Not their fault then if their skill's are no longer in demand . Know loads from the pharmaceutical industry who skill's are not needed as so much in that industry was sent over sea's.

In fact the high skill set they have is now a barrier , as those giving out the "take anything jobs " do not want people with high skill set's.

[ccc]

So did I simple took a day or two , for anyone with a bit of sense and a good work history. But I was 25 then and that was 1989 .

Go forward 20 years 2009 and it took months and months being 45 is very different from 25 especialy now. Pretty simple

Factor's against by then include age, outsourcing, cheap labour , more people for less jobs, an attitude that you can not change type of job at that age, attitude that if they do give you a job you won't stay. NMW is higher for those over 22 than under , list go's on and on. Not simple

Yep fair enough things can be complicated. However I do truly believe if someone REALLY wants work - they will get it. There may be ages/ situatinos where this becomes easier or more difficult. However the basic premises remains, and it is simple IMO. You REALLY want work ? You will get it.

[Dave Spart]

Slavery.

It would only be slavery if claimants were persistently denied the opporutnity to pursue available job vacancies or persistently denied the opportunity to engage in enterprise.

[winkie]

Yep fair enough things can be complicated. However I do truly believe if someone REALLY wants work - they will get it. There may be ages/ situatinos where this becomes easier or more difficult. However the basic premises remains, and it is simple IMO. You REALLY want work ? You will get it.

I agree....but people trapped in the benefits trap don't see it like that, not when they can see that work does not pay, it does not pay enough to live a life in a manner they have become accustomed to....a living wage.

[chris25]

[/size][/font]I have been unemployed like most people. My solution ? I got work. Pretty simple.

I agree with everything you have said but not this. This is utter rubbish, you are relating your past situation to now.

I am desperete for a full time job. I have to work part time in very precarious employment situations. I have sent out endless CV's, endless application forms, endless letters begging for jobs, turned up on the door step of companies asking for jobs etc.

I WANT a full time job but can't get one.

To say getting a job is "simple" is utter insanity to my ears.

Again I repeat, don't judge the situation of the unemployed because one day you are highly likely to be one of them. Then I will listen to what you say.

[miko]

Yep fair enough things can be complicated. However I do truly believe if someone REALLY wants work - they will get it. There may be ages/ situatinos where this becomes easier or more difficult. However the basic premises remains, and it is simple IMO. You REALLY want work ? You will get it.

Maybe at some point in your life you might change your point of view on that . Who knows

[miko]

To say getting a job is "simple" is utter insanity to my ears.

Again I repeat, don't judge the situation of the unemployed because one day you are highly likely to be one of them. Then I will listen to what you say.

+1

and + 8 million for all the other economically inactive that we now have.

[tallguy]

I must say I am totally confused.

if it's a job that doesn't need doing, then why do it?

if it is a job that needs doing, then you can pay for it.

if it's a pointless makework job then you are just wasting even more taxpayers money (brooms checking the work has been done,etc.) This shit only makes sense if you want to punish people and nothing else.

Nail on the head injin

This is the only reason

Slaves have so little power that, for some of them, the only way for they get to feel better about their own small lives is by ensuring that other slaves have it even worse than them.

It's very sad, really.

[Harry Monk]

I agree with everything you have said but not this. This is utter rubbish, you are relating your past situation to now.

I am desperete for a full time job. I have to work part time in very precarious employment situations. I have sent out endless CV's, endless application forms, endless letters begging for jobs, turned up on the door step of companies asking for jobs etc.

I WANT a full time job but can't get one.

To say getting a job is "simple" is utter insanity to my ears.

Yep, I have just checked, in October I applied for 14 different jobs, 11 for the job I have done for the last 25 years (HGV driver) but I have also applied for jobs at Lidl, at my local bowling alley and at a local visitor attraction, by a mixture of email and surface mail.

I have not received one single solitary reply to any of these applications. Not even "thanks but no thanks". Absolutely nothing.

It's not me who has the attitude problem.

[Nickolarge]

Slavery.

Correct. That is what compulsory work is and the fact that it is in exchange for a monetary reward in the form of benefit payments does not change that.

Of course, the real motivation for this is the belief that most claimants are doing cash in hand jobs on the sly. That's why they have a policy of moving around the day and time that you have to sign on.

It will be interesting to see A: how they will enforce this and B: how many folk will sign off if they do.

[Injin]

It would only be slavery if claimants were persistently denied the opporutnity to pursue available job vacancies or persistently denied the opportunity to engage in enterprise.

They are.