Bulgarian Dream

[DeepLurker]

Property as an 'investment' is an attempt to push increased costs onto others. It's immoral and damaging

That's so good, I'm tempted to adopt it as my signature

[kingsgate]

Bulgaria .... I had a look around there on a holiday with a dealer mate of mine who had cash to spend.

I thought it was dodgy as f*** then (this was in 2005 or 2006 I think).

Too many overpriced new developments springing up, no real idea what they may be "worth" when the whole coastline was filled with similar. And lots of promises about future infrastructure, resort plans etc etc....

Put me off spending money there. I thought .... if the place you are buying is finished, fully built, and cheap, AND you can see yourself going there on holiday loads and loads, then fine. Otherwise, no.

[Stay Beautiful]

a pal of mine bought into this Bulgaria thing in 2005, he was so impressed with the spiv running the scam as he lived in a big house and drove the obligitary Range Rover. By Jan 2009 the penny had finally dropped that he had been relieved of £20 000 in return for an architects drawing of his Bulgarian investment apartment.

[righttoleech]

a pal of mine bought into this Bulgaria thing in 2005, he was so impressed with the spiv running the scam as he lived in a big house and drove the obligitary Range Rover. By Jan 2009 the penny had finally dropped that he had been relieved of £20 000 in return for an architects drawing of his Bulgarian investment apartment.

Well at least he got a drawing for his money. Many a relocation, relocation, relocation viewer would be able to make use of said document as a masturbatory aid.

[yekim1967]

Visited the black sea from st vlas to the south quite impressed actually except sunny beach which is a bulgarian version of Blackpool The unspoilt nature in the south on black sea coast is really beautiful Will visit again Nessebar is very interesting and cultural but best thing about Bulgaria is the women although the yogurt is quite nice too. Seriously though I could buy a property ifor the same cost as my annual pension contributions and it has crossed my mind.

[red11]

"Back in 2006, Andrew and Pat Pryce decided to buy an investment property in Bulgaria. With retirement looming, they were hoping for rental income to supplement their pension, and a flat they could eventually sell on at a profit."

"When they read on the internet about the Mechi Chal mountain lodge in Pamporovo, advertised by overseas property agent Someplace Else as "the most exclusive in Bulgaria's booming ski resorts" and offering a guaranteed rental yield of 7% a year for the first three years, they put down a deposit of £19,485."

"It was a year later, in 2007, that they had the first inkling that something might be wrong."

I never feel sorry for the BTL crowd, especially those who tried their best to buy up half of Europe !

[james7]

I never feel sorry for the BTL crowd, especially those who tried their best to buy up half of Europe !

I'll never understand the posters on this forum and the way they view the world. I very much like this website and its forums to discuss various investments and to get others point of view on economics and world affairs, but those who post here sure have a nasty hatred for landlords, investors, and anyone who has accumulated more than two pounds in their life. Why would you not feel sorry for someone who has worked hard, saved some money for retirement, wants to invest the money in a safe place, and then through no fault of their own gets swindled by crooked estate agents, crooked politicians, or crooked developers? It is the same way on the landlord forum. Anytime there is a story about a landlord having problems, the other posters laugh and cheer for the tenant. If I didn't know better, it seems that the average poster on the landlord/overseas investment forums is a pierced, tatooed, substance abusing outlaw on the dole permanently.

I guess misery loves company.

[Agentimmo]

I'll never understand the posters on this forum and the way they view the world. I very much like this website and its forums to discuss various investments and to get others point of view on economics and world affairs, but those who post here sure have a nasty hatred for landlords, investors, and anyone who has accumulated more than two pounds in their life. Why would you not feel sorry for someone who has worked hard, saved some money for retirement, wants to invest the money in a safe place, and then through no fault of their own gets swindled by crooked estate agents, crooked politicians, or crooked developers? It is the same way on the landlord forum. Anytime there is a story about a landlord having problems, the other posters laugh and cheer for the tenant. If I didn't know better, it seems that the average poster on the landlord/overseas investment forums is a pierced, tatooed, substance abusing outlaw on the dole permanently.

I guess misery loves company.

Simple James. If you work hard, save some cash and put your money to good use, then fine. Unfortunately, the money from these "investors" has been placed in bricks and mortar and does nothing. It is a ponzi scheme, par excellence.

If they had bought shares instead of BTL, no-one would bat an eye. Certainly not a tabloid newspaper. However, BTL is seen as the man-in-the-street's way into the world of finance and big profits. The decline of capital gains is growing year-on-year , since 2007, and yet the press and VI's are still trying to pull suckers in.

Most on this forum have nothing against landlords. Real landlords. Not the accidental types that everyone can meet down the pub on a wet Friday night giving it large. Ones who only live for capital gains over a short term period. They told us they were in it for the "long term" in 2003/2004/2006.....let's see if it's true.

As for the Bulgarian "investors". I reserve the same reaction for them as I did when a relative told me in 2005 he was buying/investing in a ski resort flat over there. I pointed out the pitfalls. They ignored and cited X reasons why it was a winner - all sales brochure blurb, btw. My reaction this year on hearing of his 90% haircut on his "investment" ? -

[getdoon_weebobby]

friend of a friend of a friend offered me a 40m2 studio in Bansko Royal Towers which i believe to be the nearest apartment complex to the ski lift for £15k at the weekend.

any value ?

Edited March 20, 2012 by getdoon_weebobby

[swissy_fit]

friend of a friend of a friend offered me a 40m2 studio in Bansko Royal Towers which i believe to be the nearest apartment complex to the ski lift for £15k at the weekend.

any value ?

Even for only 15k I think a visit is probably called for. I wouldn't consider it if it's open-plan without separate sleeping accommodation, but that's personal taste.

The reviews of the place are mixed, it sounds as though it needs another main lift and isn't worth going to on crowded weeks.

http://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Bansko/reviews

I'm not wild about the Balkan cultures myself, but it seems to be a good holiday for some.

[RichB]

Depends on whether the goal is to get hammered and pick up local chicks or go skiing I guess.

[motch]

friend of a friend of a friend offered me a 40m2 studio in Bansko Royal Towers which i believe to be the nearest apartment complex to the ski lift for £15k at the weekend.

any value ?

Something I was looking at doing (buying a ski apartment in Bulgaria) around 2006/07/08

prices towards the end going up. there was also a lot of over building of ski hotels, not enough infrastructure going in, and some fraud, no planning permission etc.

But if you're still looking i'd go for something already built, been in place for a while and up and running. Near lift? make sure, there was going to be an extra lift put in for years and never happened but flats still being listed as next to lift, not sure if thats been built.

Some agents desribe a 1000m walk as being next to a lift, walking that in ski boots is not easy.

Would need a proper solicitor to go over all the paperwork make sure it's legit, no clauses, need to know service charges etc, normally low.

40m2 might be a lot less internally, often the communal halls outside the flat is included in the total.

If you could buy 40m2 for £15k what could you buy 60-70m2 for? might not be much more.

[dryrot]

friend of a friend of a friend offered me a 40m2 studio in Bansko Royal Towers which i believe to be the nearest apartment complex to the ski lift for £15k at the weekend.

any value ?

Hi

Not much of a friend! Studio in Bansko, yours for 8k

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/overseas-property/property-36196463.html

List of Apartments for under 20K in Bansko:

http://www.bulgarianproperties.com/Search/index.php?stip=0&stown=7&maxprice=25000&skeyword=&sadx=1&x=38&y=20&c=Search

Not a place I really want to ski at: 90minute queue for the (one) town-to-slopes gondola I understand. Long transfer too. Lift pass £140 for 6 days - it was only £190 in Ischgl, and Ischgl has 87 lifts to Bansko's 14...

EDIT: replied to wrong post

Edited April 15, 2013 by dryrot

[motch]

Hi

Not much of a friend! Studio in Bansko, yours for 8k

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/overseas-property/property-36196463.html

"We have for sale the last remaining 14 apartments at this contemporary apartment development, with an unbelievable price of only 500 Euro per sq.m"

The flat is around 38 sq.m so around £18k ? some of the bulgarian companies advertise flats at a lower price than in reality.

Edited April 19, 2013 by motch

[dryrot]

"We have for sale the last remaining 14 apartments at this contemporary apartment development, with an unbelievable price of only 500 Euro per sq.m"

Hi

??? If you follow the link on the above advert ( http://www.rightmove.co.uk/overseas-property-for-sale/Bansko.html/svr/2712;jsessionid=C2090C0D3E80552FA7A120F3E8EC1AFC?maxPrice=25000&minBedrooms=1

You get seven(!) pages of flats for sale. The last one has loads around (and under) 12k...

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/overseas-property-for-sale/Bansko.html?sortType=2&maxPrice=25000&minBedrooms=1&index=60

Which makes weebobby's FOAFOAF not a friend at all?

The flat is around 38 sq.m so around £18k ? some of the bulgarian companies advertise flats at a lower price than in reality.

(I was also a little confused at your point wrt pricing: do Rightmove allow such false advertising? Seems even less likely to spur confidence in the Bansko property market...)

Edited April 22, 2013 by dryrot

[motch]

I think with these bulgarian ski flats you'd be better off going over to get a feel for the place. Yes I think they mislead with prices, often saying price from £12k for a 1/2 bedroom when they mean the studios really £12k, the 1/2 beds would be higher. Plus you'd might need to buy their furniture packs which cost around £3k.

I've no idea how the market is now. I originally was thinking of buying a small apartment around 2005/6/7 and aiming to live in it/there for several months a year, circumstances at the time would of suited my lifestyle then. i thought then prices were going up way too high and would crash down at a later date (which might be now, who knows). Way too many flats being built at the time without the infrastructure or enough ski-runs/lifts.