VeryMeanReversion Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 How many people here would be entirely happy to gazunder? ... Just curious. I am in the process of buying now. If I find out something serious that the vendors hadn't told me about, I will pull out or gazunder to reflect the fault/issue. Otherwise, I will carry on to completion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 (edited) There's a difference between re-negotiating the price after a bad survey result, and intentionally leaving it until the last minute to change your offer. Anecdote.. I once sold a nearly-new Mercedes S600 to a bloke via Autotrader. To anyone in the know, they depreciate like stones. We agreed a price, I took a £500 deposit but before the transaction was complete he fell ill, heart-related stuff. I agreed to keep the car for him, turning away other enquiries, and left it mothballed waiting fo rhim. It took him 6 months before he was well enough to finalise the transaction by which time it had depreciated about £10,000. He could have welched and offered me the going rate (or backed out and got a third party to buy it at a new price). Also, I could have told him I wasn't going to wait and found another seller.. but I think we were both decent men of our word and both came out of it happy. With all due respect I would have fully expected you to keep your end. I would have expected it initially as it is only fair and reasonable. I would have expected it after time had passed because you were sat on an offer that would not be matched anywhere else. Do I think he was galant and an old school gent? Yes. Do I think that he is an idiot for overpaying £10k on a second hand car? Yes. Maybe he has so much spare cash that it was no big deal to him but there are many that wouldn't even spend near £10k on a second hand car. I think that the number of others who would overpay by £10k is probably about the same number of rocking horse turds that I could find. Edited October 11, 2010 by richyc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 I am in the process of buying now. If I find out something serious that the vendors hadn't told me about, I will pull out or gazunder to reflect the fault/issue. Otherwise, I will carry on to completion. I would assume though that being clued up, you agreed a price that you are happy with and even figures like 3.6% will mean little. Not everyone is in the same position. Many still listen to ea's and the bbc and pay asking prices. To them, paying an inflated asking price, 3.6% could be the tip of the iceberg if they start looking around and doing some research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peakoil Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 ask an Arab if gazundering is unethical. Ethics are societies "rules" that are used to prevent social breakdown. If you believe there will be social breakdown because you are dropping the price £20k then stop immediately, but I suspect the world will keep turning. The vendors might rip out the light switches, but they still won't cost you 20k to replace (another poster pointed out that this is likely to be 40k over the life of your mortgage repayments...). think of it this way... every 1k saved can be put into some kind of investment for your kids. Perhaps they'll waste it, but maybe, just maybe, they'll spend it on drugs and high class prostitutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pent Up Posted October 11, 2010 Author Share Posted October 11, 2010 (edited) Personally I don't do morals but would not guzunder as the original price I agree would be tomorrows price not today. Anyway back to the actual article the headline in the physical version off the paper is Gazundering is back as housing Market tumbles Lovely jubbly there's no hiding from it now Edited October 11, 2010 by Pent Up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1AK Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 How many people here would be entirely happy to gazunder? Absolutely couldn't. I would not be willing to go back on my word unless external factors required it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1AK Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 ask an Arab if gazundering is unethical. Ethics are societies "rules" that are used to prevent social breakdown. If you believe there will be social breakdown because you are dropping the price £20k then stop immediately, but I suspect the world will keep turning. The vendors might rip out the light switches, but they still won't cost you 20k to replace (another poster pointed out that this is likely to be 40k over the life of your mortgage repayments...). think of it this way... every 1k saved can be put into some kind of investment for your kids. Perhaps they'll waste it, but maybe, just maybe, they'll spend it on drugs and high class prostitutes. I don't do it because I think it holds the moral fabric of the earth together. I do it because I think it is the ethical thing to do and that is important to me. If someone tried to gazunder me I'd do everything in my power to make it backfire on them. I'd drag the process on as long as I possibly could without commuting irrevocably and then at the final moment I could refuse to sell unless they paid me more than the original price. Would I be willing to make a decision that is economically inefficient to do this? Absolutely. I'm willing to trade some financial benefit for the satisfaction of an ethics lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Bear Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 Can't understand all the faux outrage. What makes you think it's all faux? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 What makes you think it's all faux? From the rest of his posts I'd guess it's because he can't believe that anyone won't really screw someone else over for their own gain at every opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 I don't do it because I think it holds the moral fabric of the earth together. I do it because I think it is the ethical thing to do and that is important to me. If someone tried to gazunder me I'd do everything in my power to make it backfire on them. I'd drag the process on as long as I possibly could without commuting irrevocably and then at the final moment I could refuse to sell unless they paid me more than the original price. Would I be willing to make a decision that is economically inefficient to do this? Absolutely. I'm willing to trade some financial benefit for the satisfaction of an ethics lesson. That sounds like some strange ethics lesson to me. More like revenge or retribution to me...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardiffone Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 (edited) Got to laugh at all this "gentlemen's agreement" tosh. Houses are not sold on a had shake, we have a legal system to deal with such things, and it only on exchange that price is no longer an offer. There is no way anyone can have enough information to set a final offer price for a property at the beginning of the buying process. Buying a house is such a big financial commitment that it takes a lot of work to reach a "reasonable offer". I'm afraid the first excepted offer is just that, still an offer, thats why the buyer should be armed with knowledge about his houses true worth, if he gets an offer too good to be true, it probably is, and will get knocked down close to the end of the process. Edited October 11, 2010 by cardiffone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 Got to laugh at all this "gentlemen's agreement" tosh. Houses are not sold on a had shake, we have a legal system to deal with such things, and it only on exchange that price is no longer an offer. There is no way anyone can have enough information to set a final offer price for a property at the beginning of the buying process. Buying a house is such a big financial commitment that it takes a lot of work to reach a "reasonable offer". I'm afraid the first excepted offer is just that, still an offer, thats why the buyer should be armed with knowledge about his houses true worth, if he gets an offer too good to be true, it probably is, and will get knocked down close to the end of the process. I think you're confusing two things here. Most people seem to agree that later relevent information, such as a survey revealing serious flaws, is a justification for the original offer not to be kept to. That's a completely different thing than going back on the offer just because you've decided you don't like what you earlier agreed to, even though nothing else has changed. It's even worse if you never had any intention of sticking to the original offer (i.e. you outright lied in order to manoeuvre the other guy into a situation where you can put pressure on him). That's just outright dishonest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardiffone Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 I think you're confusing two things here. Most people seem to agree that later relevent information, such as a survey revealing serious flaws, is a justification for the original offer not to be kept to. That's a completely different thing than going back on the offer just because you've decided you don't like what you earlier agreed to, even though nothing else has changed. It's even worse if you never had any intention of sticking to the original offer (i.e. you outright lied in order to manoeuvre the other guy into a situation where you can put pressure on him). That's just outright dishonest. Yes i do see that as morally suspect, but again if the price is right they are just not going to be able to justify a drop in price. If they truly have concerns they will go elsewhere, if it was just a tactic i suspect they will stick to the "agreed" price is you threaten to pull out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Democorruptcy Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 Estate agents should stamp out this gazundering by offering all their houses with a: "10% OFF agreed sales price on completion" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 so you're telling me that if, from offer to exchange,house prices plummeted 50%,you'd still pay the original offer price at exchange?get real. everyone's got principles while it's the sums involved are less than 10% of net asset value. Assuming that I still could (e.g. the mortgage offer wasn't withdrawn) then yes. However, if such a drop looked remotely possible in the realistic timeframe of the offer then I would never have made the offer in the first place. If I made an offer at all it would've been for what I thought was a reasonable price, and would regard such a drop as just missing out on getting something dirt cheap - not too galling as long as I still think I got a reasonable price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulfar Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 Given the latest house price figure drop it is hardly surprising. I wouldn't do it unless seriously messed about by a vendor but then when I make an offer it is always conditional upon exchange and completion within very definite time scales. Should I become aware of something that the vendors would have known about and not informed on then normally I would find another property. Vendors could help themselves here by setting exchange and completion a month apart, never ever let an estate agent persuade you that completion and exchange on the same day is a good idea. Also be honest with your buyer, if you say you will go into rented then do it. I have done it and would do again. I will also always inspect a property the day before exchange taking pictures, investigating any issues raised in the survey. I will also want to inspect the property the day before completion, you'd be amazed at the things people think they can get away with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim123 Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 (edited) We did exactly that. EA argued the works wouldn't cost as much as the surveyor had estimated - I simply said our new price was X less than the original offer. guess what - the vendors accepted. We then did an even more heinous thing and dropped our price before exchange to reflect the worsening market conditions (late 2008) - EA was unhappy but vendors accepted. Outcome - we go the property for £25k less than our first offer and the EA refuses to talk to us now! I bought a house (in 1999) for full AP and the EA refused to talk to me about a problem after he had his money! tim Edited October 11, 2010 by tim123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Cash Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 (edited) Well, If I ever buy another house in Britain it will be in several years, when we are well into the despair phase of the cycle. I fully intend to gazunder as well, Im sure its horrible for the seller but it will in some small way make up for the despair I remember feeling in the mid 2000s when every newspaper and radio show led with how many percentage points house prices had risen this month. Also, a seller accepted a better offer during a house purchase I was trying to make in the 80s. I told them to take it and any vendor is of course free to reject any reduced offer made at the last minute. If theres any problem, then its the system that allows these practices to go on. It couldn't be done in Scotland and it couldn't be done in most of the rest of Europe where property is bought using the notary system. Edited October 11, 2010 by Johnny Cash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 so,your word is your bond unless something unforseeable occurs,like a change in price expectations. Unless it turns out that what I made an offer for isn't what's actually on offer - e.g. a survey revealing previously unknown problems. A change in price expectations is neither here nor there. As I said I'd pay what I thought it was worth. What other people think it's worth is their problem. That's one of the reasons I've not even looked in to buying an overpriced house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juvenal Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 Livesey on Five Live dealing with this right now, and stating prices are falling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.