Expats Dropping Rents Too!

[Spirit]

We've just had a similar experience - our new tenants pulled out on Saturday just a week before they were due to move in and we have no chance of getting someone in and also had to drop the rent by £200 a month. We were very down for a few days. Some people have no decency.

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=319437

[gilf]

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=319437

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's buisness, decency doesn't come into it.

[Marina]

It's buisness, decency doesn't come into it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its one thing wanting a house price crash - but I see comments like this quite often on here and I think it's sad.

I've been in business and involved in business deals like buying property, leasing commercial premises, setting up companies, selling companies etc for over 30 years. I have always behaved decently and honestly with everyone I have dealt with (with one exception I am ashamed of where I took a bloke to exchange of contracts, backed out, and went back 3 months later and bought for 10k less - but it was in the last crash and I convinced myself I was paying too much). As a result anyone who does business with me once, will do it again. Its a very handy thing to have people trust you.

[CrashCrash]

Its one thing wanting a house price crash - but I see comments like this quite often on here and I think it's sad.

I've been in business and involved in business deals like buying property, leasing commercial premises, setting up companies, selling companies etc for over 30 years. I have always behaved decently and honestly with everyone I have dealt with (with one exception I am ashamed of where I took a bloke to exchange of contracts, backed out, and went back 3 months later and bought for 10k less - but it was in the last crash and I convinced myself I was paying too much). As a result anyone who does business with me once, will do it again. Its a very handy thing to have people trust you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

as long as it is leagal, its fine. that is what is been going on in the property maket in the last few years. no different, only thing is its pay back time.

[JST]

Its one thing wanting a house price crash - but I see comments like this quite often on here and I think it's sad.

I've been in business and involved in business deals like buying property, leasing commercial premises, setting up companies, selling companies etc for over 30 years. I have always behaved decently and honestly with everyone I have dealt with (with one exception I am ashamed of where I took a bloke to exchange of contracts, backed out, and went back 3 months later and bought for 10k less - but it was in the last crash and I convinced myself I was paying too much). As a result anyone who does business with me once, will do it again. Its a very handy thing to have people trust you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

These are all fair points (i.e that being known as a charlatan in business is clearly not a good thing) but if a deal is so clearly not in your interests to pursue, like your example above, then there's no point in entering into it.

Likewise, I would feel no compunction about negotiating the lowest possible rent for myself, even if the landlord was making a loss.

[Withnail]

Its one thing wanting a house price crash - but I see comments like this quite often on here and I think it's sad.

I've been in business and involved in business deals like buying property, leasing commercial premises, setting up companies, selling companies etc for over 30 years. I have always behaved decently and honestly with everyone I have dealt with (with one exception I am ashamed of where I took a bloke to exchange of contracts, backed out, and went back 3 months later and bought for 10k less - but it was in the last crash and I convinced myself I was paying too much). As a result anyone who does business with me once, will do it again. Its a very handy thing to have people trust you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

These b@stards want everyone else to pay for their idiotic 'lifestyle' in the suburbs of Perth or some other Godforsaken hellhole.

Let them burn.

[aclwalker]

Its one thing wanting a house price crash - but I see comments like this quite often on here and I think it's sad.

I've been in business and involved in business deals like buying property, leasing commercial premises, setting up companies, selling companies etc for over 30 years. I have always behaved decently and honestly with everyone I have dealt with (with one exception I am ashamed of where I took a bloke to exchange of contracts, backed out, and went back 3 months later and bought for 10k less - but it was in the last crash and I convinced myself I was paying too much). As a result anyone who does business with me once, will do it again. Its a very handy thing to have people trust you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But that's the whole purpose of 'contracts' (in the widest sense of the word, not just property), surely? To avoid the need to rely on decency. Things are formally agreed instead.

I agree with you though. Keeping to one's word is worthwhile. I had a verbal agreement with the vendor of my house. He agreed to sell to me (remember, Scotland has the offers over, sealed bid system) in exchange for me meeting his price. I kept my bargain and 'offered' what he said he was happy with and he kept to his side. As a result I would trust him again in the future.

The Scottish system of property buying seems to be a lot more formal than the English system in that the agreements are binding earlier on. You can't just make offers and pull out at the last minute.

I'm not sure how renting works, but I'd imagine there would be more parity between Scotland and England in that respect.

However, the fact they are dropping their rent by £200 suggested it was way over-priced in the first place. So it was perhaps they who were missing the decency?

[Beans-on-Toast Britain]

The anger phase is very much alive and kicking on the expat forum. Anger aimed at people who will not take a 30yr 6x salary mortgages to buy their modest semis in places like Lincoln.

There's even one guy who's so p!ssed off no one will buy his pokey little house for 3x its true value he suggests "They don't want to commit because they are time wasting TOSS*&S, why view a house if you have no intention of buying....should make them pay to view and refundable if they buy!!!!!"

There's no one stopping him, anyone can charge a fee to gain entry to their house. Only no one would pay it, showing his anger is now completely irrational and he's striking out anyone and everyone. Someone send him some karma, he's gonna need it.

[newbie]

as long as it is leagal, its fine. that is what is been going on in the property maket in the last few years. no different, only thing is its pay back time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not having a go at you personally CrashCrash but I think that this view has become very prevalent in society. If it's not illegal, it's fine. Ie. you can do it with a clear conscience. (This view is also aired on the "Would this make me a bad person thread" - http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=13633 )

But there is another layer of rules that used to govern in society, even in business - morality. This has been systematically eroded away, partly due to the increasingly pluralistic (and I guess atheist) nature of society (which in itself is not necessarily a bad thing).

One very palpable consequence of the 'If it's not illegal, it's ok' attitude is the plethora of laws that continue to be made these days. Much of what would have been taken for granted for an orderly co-existence decades ago, now has to be spelt out in black and white in rules and regulations and backed up with enforcement mechanisms. (Some examples, are the human rights legislation, the financial services and markets legislation, and the ever popular ASBOs).

No doubt there was always a proportion of people who adhered to the 'If it's not illegal, it's fine' philosophy but I think that it's grown larger in recent times. It's sad, but I guess that's how it is for the foreseeable future.

[lampkin]

But there is another layer of rules that used to govern in society, even in business - morality. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes, i often wonder how people can sell a house with 200% returns and have a clear conscience..

[BoredTrainBuilder]

Not having a go at you personally CrashCrash but I think that this view has become very prevalent in society.  If it's not illegal, it's fine.   Ie. you can do it with a clear conscience.  (This view is also aired on the "Would this make me a bad person thread" - http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=13633 )

But there is another layer of rules that used to govern in society, even in business - morality.  This has been systematically eroded away, partly due to the increasingly pluralistic (and I guess atheist) nature of society (which in itself is not necessarily a bad thing).

One very palpable consequence of the 'If it's not illegal, it's ok' attitude is the plethora of laws that continue to be made these days.  Much of what would have been taken for granted for an orderly co-existence decades ago, now has to be spelt out in black and white in rules and regulations and backed up with enforcement mechanisms.  (Some examples, are the human rights legislation, the financial services and markets legislation, and the ever popular ASBOs).

No doubt there was always a proportion of people who adhered to the 'If it's not illegal, it's fine' philosophy but I think that it's grown larger in recent times.  It's sad, but I guess that's how it is for the foreseeable future.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're not claiming that religious people are more moral than atheists, are you? Or that society in the past was somehow more moral than now? I'd like the evidence.

[Gavin]

Marina

I know what you mean about threads almost enjoying distressed expats threads. However I think its a normal reaction from those here.

Firstly HPC'ers aren't happy people are in distress par se, but they are happy to see actual evidence of houses struggling to sell ot indeed that their are too many places to rent, forcing prices down, it proves that the market has been skewed by BTL, and will return to normal levels once yield sense shines through. They are happy because finally they can see evidence that the madness is closing.

Secondly they are perhaps jealous/angry that people seem to think arrogantly that their houses have some kind of intrinsic worth at 2004 market levels, and they are so busy spending their money in their heads in a far off land that they don't even stop to think whether someone can and should pay that price.

Religion?

I have just come back from nearly a year in Egypt. The social order there is starkly different to here. There is no street drinking culture (although alcohol is available) its completely safe to walk around the poorest areas of Cairo at night, and my experience was of high levels of morality. The most controversial films at the cinema deal with girls getting pregnant outside marriage and how the family can fall apart trying to control what the neighbours think! Iamgine such a film here!

I don't deny that Egypt has lots of problems, but I do think that morality is high there, and it is due to religion. The culture is based around a belief in God and that he watches what you do. Agree or disagree with the concept of God, but there is undeniably a strong link in my opinion. When speaking to Landlords I was often told, I am a (Coptic) Christian, or I am a Muslim so you can trust my word.

I think it is unlikely that you word hear phrases like that here now, and if you did, I actually think you would be embarassed.

[newbie]

You're not claiming that religious people are more moral than atheists, are you? Or that society in the past was somehow more moral than now? I'd like the evidence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would assume that (1) taken as whole and (2) ignoring the extreme ends of both spectrums, religious people are as a general rule probably more moral than atheists. Therefore, if I had to trust a random person to mind my wallet for a few hours I would gamble on a person who professed to be religious than on a person who professed to be atheist, all other things being equal.

I guess I can't point to a historical Nationwide-type chart of morality. But I think that the levels of morality, criminality, etc fluctuate over time - just like asset prices.

My point is simply that what used to be left to morals and general principles now been (and perhaps had to be) legislated into fixed rules which are becoming ever more complex.

[BoredTrainBuilder]

Therefore, if I had to trust a random person to mind my wallet for a few hours I would gamble on a person who professed to be religious than on a person who professed to be atheist, all other things being equal.

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Amazing! But I can't argue with your own feelings, they seem to be deeply held.

What if the wallet were your child and the religious person a priest? What

if they were a rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth muslim?

[newbie]

Amazing! But I can't argue with your own feelings, they seem to be deeply held.

What if the wallet were your child and the religious person a priest? What 

if they were a rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth muslim?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What if the atheist was a kiddie-porn producer or a psychopath??? Like I said: "ignoring the extreme ends of both spectrums".

I think that someone who is convinced that there's an afterlife/that their deeds are weighed up by a higher power is 'more likely' to be trustworthy than someone who does not. I am not saying that it's guaranteed; I just think that it's more likely. Nor am I saying that religious people are better people than atheists. I am just saying that if I had to make a decision like this, that would be a factor that would be taken into account.

[Guest Bart of Darkness]

I would assume that (1) taken as whole and (2) ignoring the extreme ends of both spectrums, religious people are as a general rule probably more moral than atheists.

Jimmy Swaggart?

Jim Bakker?

I certainly wouldn't trust them with my wallet!

[BoredTrainBuilder]

What if the atheist was a kiddie-porn producer or a psychopath???  Like I said: "ignoring the extreme ends of both spectrums". 

I think that someone who is convinced that there's an afterlife/that their deeds are weighed up by a higher power is 'more likely' to be trustworthy than someone who does not.  I am not saying that it's guaranteed; I just think that it's more likely.  Nor am I saying that religious people are better people than atheists.  I am just saying that if I had to make a decision like this, that would be a factor that would be taken into account.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Once again, newbie, I can only respect your views. Really. But my take on life is so different! Fascinating.

In my experience (limited to 41 years of life and all that goes with it) religious peole are not to be trusted. This is based on personal contacts. I would quintuple this observation with people I don't actually know - in the pubilc sphere, it seems, the more religious the more deadly.

But I do respect your views.

[Nomadd]

These b@stards want everyone else to pay for their idiotic 'lifestyle' in the suburbs of Perth or some other Godforsaken hellhole.

Let them burn.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Couldn't agree more.

Seems some people think 'decency' runs in one direction only - when it's in their favour.

Nomadd

[right_freds_dead]

they make me laugh these ex-pats and their business dealings.

its all...."karma to you old chap"....."shimply shuper old bean"....when it comes to ripping people off, but when they get diddled there up in arms and calling all things not british and un-decent.

they are crap heads and im glad they are leaving.