First Time Buyers - Hang On - Don't Buy

[VacantPossession]

I would love to have a Lear aircraft but I can`t because they are too expensive for me. I do not gripe that they are too expensive and must come down so the man in the street can purchase rather do I reflect that that is the way of the world.

It is the way markets work. I am not jealous of those who do have Lear jets. Similarly may I suggest that if you are unable to purchase property just accept that fact and move on. You may be happier in the long run.

regards

horace

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dear Horace,

You sound like a nice chap but really that is the most crass analogy I have ever seen expressed on this forum. A Learjet is a LUXURY. A house, or home represents BASIC shelter in a civilised country. Or perhaps you think everyone should be content to live in a cardboard box and be "grateful".

Please try to apply a bare minimum of intelligence to this discussion. Thanks so much.

VP

[Homebird]

Commonsense - completely agree with you.Rents are ridiculous, wages aren't going up, house prices....

Emmigration is a seriously tempting option, but the hiraeth is in me, and I'm going to stick the course.Don't let the b**tards get you down.Hiwyl.

[theChuz]

Somthing to keep in mind and you will know when it is relevant, hell.. go to bed thinking about it so your prepared for it when it happens.....

The sucker punch is not a single hit its a several hit combination.

[Guest horace]

Oh dear oh dear!

It would appear that if one takes an opposite view to the progenator of this thread one is vilified for one`s view.

I post again my earlier statement .....

"I would love to have a Lear aircraft but I can`t because they are too expensive for me. I do not gripe that they are too expensive and must come down so the man in the street can purchase rather do I reflect that that is the way of the world.

It is the way markets work. I am not jealous of those who do have Lear jets. Similarly may I suggest that if you are unable to purchase property just accept that fact and move on. You may be happier in the long run".

The salient point here is `It is the way markets work.`

Once you grasp that simple fact you will see how your arguements simply do not hold water.

As Mrs T stated frequently `you can`t buck the market`

>>> TWOPEY yes I did receive an offer which I accepted. A Building Society survey was under taken yesterday.

horace.

[VacantPossession]

Oh dear oh dear!

It would appear that if one takes an opposite view to the progenator of this thread one is vilified for one`s view.

I post again my earlier statement .....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...oh please don't. It is as crass and incompetent the second time as it was the first.

VP

[George]

Oh dear oh dear!

It would appear that if one takes an opposite view to the progenator of this thread one is vilified for one`s view.

I post again my earlier statement .....

"I would love to have a Lear aircraft but I can`t because they are too expensive for me. I do not gripe that they are too expensive and must come down so the man in the street can purchase rather do I reflect that that is the way of the world.

It is the way markets work. I am not jealous of those who do have Lear jets. Similarly may I suggest that if you are unable to purchase property just accept that fact and move on. You may be happier in the long run". 

The salient point here is `It is the way markets work.`

Once you  grasp that simple fact you will see how your arguements simply do not hold water.

As Mrs T stated frequently `you can`t buck the market`

>>> TWOPEY yes I did receive an offer which I accepted. A Building Society survey was under taken yesterday.

horace.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...demand has fallen (logically) due to high prices as seen in various data -61% over one year (PR postcode) amongst others:

`It is the way markets work.`

'the market is dead said Brian'

Edited August 5, 2005 by George

[DTMark]

It's OK; first time buyers aren't buying.

That is why nothing is selling and nobody is moving.

When first time buyers are back prices will start going up again.

But not before they have fallen enough for first time buyers to return.

History repeats itself. Simple, really.

[Guest horace]

Posted again especially for VacantPossession who appears to be rather obtuse.....

`"I would love to have a Lear aircraft but I can`t because they are too expensive for me. I do not gripe that they are too expensive and must come down so the man in the street can purchase rather do I reflect that that is the way of the world.

It is the way markets work. I am not jealous of those who do have Lear jets. Similarly may I suggest that if you are unable to purchase property just accept that fact and move on. You may be happier in the long run".

horace (amazed at VacantPossession`s stupidity) lol

[Rubbernecker]

Posted again especially for VacantPossession who appears to be rather obtuse.....

`"I would love to have a Lear aircraft but I can`t because they are too expensive for me. I do not gripe that they are too expensive and must come down so the man in the street can purchase rather do I reflect that that is the way of the world.

It is the way markets work. I am not jealous of those who do have Lear jets. Similarly may I suggest that if you are unable to purchase property just accept that fact and move on. You may be happier in the long run".

horace (amazed at VacantPossession`s stupidity) lol

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Surely the way a housing market runs is reliant one new people coming in on the bottom and without these nothing moves. And there are peole who simply cannot buy on a above average salary.

A lot of people myself included can very easily buy a property at the moment but don't want to in a falling market. Similarily if i was looking to buy a Lear jet and all the evidence was pointing to Lear jets falling in price then i would wait and see how far its gonna drop.

[eric pebble]

No worries about me buying Eric, as an average wage earner in a one income family with a baby, I simply cannot but until the prices drop by at least 50%

The emigration trend is one herd instinct that I will not mind following. In 15 years half this country will be landlords and the other half unemployed begging the government to pay their rent.

Britain ... the land of my fathers and my fathers can have it. Diolch yn Fawr.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aaargh!!!! Commonsense -- you have made me laugh out loud this morning -so ironic - sad and funny-- although, what you say - which is the logical outcome of things in this sad country now - is a pitiful indictment of the way we have become. But -- with senses of humour like yours around - all we can do is just sit back and watch the whole thing implode - which it will - and is already.....

Have just spoken to a friend who lives in the Surrey/Hants border area for the first time in a year - and he tells me that DOZENS of his friends and aquaintances in that area & in London are just banging their heads against the wall as they try and try to sell their properties -- some of them for well over a year now!! - and even with huge reductions in original asking prices - STILL - they are all just totally unable to shift their properties....... This is the story all over the place -- another pal in the SW tells me the same story - even though down there in the last few years the market has been quite a bit better for sellers -- but now, he says, it is almost dead; loads of people pulling out their offers, he tells me....... This is a huge new trend..... as people rush to abandon the sinking ship.....

[marzipan]

anyone remember this post??

Sorry to disappoint eric but this weekend I have two couples coming to view my property. Both are FTBer`s.

lol

horace.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

so what happened horace? any offers yet?!

[Guest horace]

>> marzipan

I would refer you to post 54.

horace

[CommonSense]

Aaargh!!!!  Commonsense -- you have made me laugh out loud this morning -so ironic - sad and funny-- although, what you say - which is the logical outcome of things in this sad country now - is a pitiful indictment of the way we have become.  But -- with senses of humour like yours around - all we can do is just sit back and watch the whole thing implode  - which it will - and is already..... 

Have just spoken to a friend who lives in the Surrey/Hants border area for the first time in a year - and he tells me that DOZENS of his friends and aquaintances in that area & in London are just banging their heads against the wall as they try and try to sell their properties -- some of them for well over a year now!! - and even with huge reductions in original asking prices - STILL - they are all just totally unable to shift their properties.......  This is the story all over the place -- another pal in the SW tells me the same story - even though down there in the last few years the market has been quite a bit better for sellers -- but now, he says, it is almost dead; loads of people pulling out their offers, he tells me....... This is a huge new trend..... as people rush to abandon the sinking ship.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Success is not measured by what we have, but by what we can do without, and we can certainly do without New Britain.

I'm pleased that I have given you some mirth Eric. May the sun shine upon you and yours as ours has seen fit to shine upon mine.

[ʎqɐqɹǝʞɐɥs]

ALL FTB's out there -- HANG ON IN OUT THERE!!!!! Whatever, whatever, WHATEVER...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As ever, nicely put Eric.

[eric pebble]

As ever, nicely put Eric. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Shakerbaby!! & Thanks Commonsense!

I defy anyone to buy now!!! It would be just as well to pick up a HUGE wad of cash - THOUSANDS of quid - and just chuck the whole lot onto a fire!!! I know of one person who bought a 2 bed property (in SW London suburbs) right of the top of the market 20 months ago -I TRIED to stop her - and she paid £249k....... And now same properties are on the market (many as yet unsold) for £189/195/205/209k........................... i.e. She has just thrown at least 50k into the flames...... IN TWENTY MONTHS..... it's GONE: A truly sad story -- and THE REALITY of what is happening out there. WATCH OUT YOU FTB's out there -- DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT buy now.....

[Guest horace]

I wonder if eric pebble would encourage people not to purchase new cars after all they depreciate. The same thing would apply to most other purchases, washing machines. tv`s etc.

Perhaps eric would wish everyone to return to the caves previously occupied by stone age man. We could save a lot of money that way eric.

horace.

[theChuz]

I wonder if eric pebble would encourage people not to purchase new cars after all they depreciate. The same thing would apply to most other purchases, washing machines. tv`s etc.

Perhaps eric would wish everyone to return to the caves previously occupied by stone age man. We could save a lot of money that way eric.

horace.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I keep hearing that analogy with cars and i personally just dont see why people compare the two.

Basically if your to buy a new car on credit you have it paid off in 3-5 years? You know full well before you buy it that it will depreciate. A car is never bought as an investment, no hopes and dreams of a pension are placed on a car being sold in 25 years at a profit.

Most normal ftb'r who is finding it impossible / very difficult to buy a house are not the ones who buy cars for over 20K.

You have to keep perspective on the two, they are very differnt. On your assumption you could say why buy a bottle of champange on special occassion for £100, when in 2 hours it dosnt exist any more.

The difference is the relative amount of money that you spend, cars and champange dont really consitute geared investments (ha cars are but you know what i mean).

Bascially if you have a million quid and your a FTB then buy a house, you could lose the complete value of the house and not care.

If you could buy a house for 20K and you were on 25K p/a you wouldnt care if it depreciated its relative to the money you have.

A mortgage (for the normal folk) is a 25 year commitment to a debt, a car is a 3- 5 commitment, its all differnt and shouldnt be used as a comparrison.

IMHO

Edited August 6, 2005 by theChuz

[Boom'n'Bust]

I'd like to join in this debate, by saying that IMHO, price should and need to come down. Why, do I say that? Because FTB's who keep the market prices sustained are in their lowest numbers, which explains the HP slowdown. According to you Horace, my friend, prices should keep rising if property is affordable, which it clearly isn't.

Lets clarify this...My friend, who lives in Leeds, is a FTB earning a salary of £25k. He's got a good deposit of £30k and would like to purchase a property for £150k. All he can buy are sh*tholes and for this reason, he'd rather rent than buy as he doesn't want to overstretch himself.

Give me a reason, why he should overstretch himself and pay a mortgage of £120k for a sh*thole for the rest of his young life?

[Guest horace]

>> Boom`n`Bust

You posted quote

`According to you Horace, my friend, prices should keep rising if property is affordable`

unquote

Please refresh my memory. In which post have I stated this?

horace.

Edited August 6, 2005 by horace

[Michael]

I wonder if eric pebble would encourage people not to purchase new cars after all they depreciate. The same thing would apply to most other purchases, washing machines. tv`s etc.

Perhaps eric would wish everyone to return to the caves previously occupied by stone age man. We could save a lot of money that way eric.

horace.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you can't compare cars with houses as all cars depreciate all the time but houses only depreciate in slumps ...ie now!..........Houses are a great buy most of the time but not now!........Unlike with other purchases it's all about timing...even though i appreciate you can never time it to catch the bottom of the market.

Edited August 6, 2005 by Michael

[DTMark]

Cars inevitably depreciate in value.

Some cars don't, for instance some classic cars can actually appreciate in value (but not if you actually drive them)

There's a bit of difference in the sales model too: cars for the most part have something of a "known value", e.g. a Ford Focus or similar might be 10k.

You can sometimes get a deal at the dealer if buying new, especially at the moment since sales are poor, but by and large cars are 'ticket price'.

Likewise the "system" forbids us from, for instance, making an offer at the checkout at M & S.

However that system doesn't work in the housing market, there is no "known" or intrinsic value for property.

You don't go along to Ford, look at the price of a new Mondeo and see it's 11,995, and then "offer" 6,500 if that's all you have, instead you go and buy a Fiat Panda (or whatever)

A seller can "ask" whatever they like for their property. However in a buyer's market, which is the way it's likely to remain for many years, asking price is irrelevant.

The property might well be on the market for 150k, but if the best offer is 75k, then it's only worth 75k.

[Boom'n'Bust]

>> Boom`n`Bust

You posted quote

`According to you Horace, my friend, prices should keep rising if property is affordable`

unquote

Please refresh my memory. In which post have I stated this?

horace.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I meant it in a sarcastic way...you are a bull who believes that house prices don't fall, hence they can't stagnate..only rise or fall. So if your not accepting that they are going to fall then what are they going to do? According to what I think your hinting is that they are going to rise.

[Guest pioneer31]

Perhaps eric would wish everyone to return to the caves previously occupied by stone age man. We could save a lot of money that way eric.

horace.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

perhaps that's what you wish Horace?

After all you did say....

"Similarly may I suggest that if you are unable to purchase property just accept that fact and move on."

[Guest pioneer31]

Sorry to disappoint eric but this weekend I have two couples coming to view my property. Both are FTBer`s.

lol

horace.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Seeing that you're fond of asking the questions and requesting evidence (as in your post about 'pullouts')

Can we have some evidence to back up this claim?

How do we know you have a house to sell?

[Guest horace]

>> Boom'n'Bust

I am neither a bull or a bear. I simply expect markets to behave like markets behave. The housing market may go up it may go down and I do not claim to have a crystal ball.

Like most things in life `you pays your money and you takes your choice`.

>> pioneer31

I don`t need to prove anything to you mate.

horace