Lying On Your Cv

[CokeSnortingTory]

Alarming. Especially if he is in medicine, or builds bridges for a living.

If he's a banker, it seems normal to have no relevant qualifications.

Naahh. It's only Marketing.

If they ever find out, I suspect they'll probably promote him.

[KingBingo]

I have been mainly working in uni admin and for NGOs. They always ask for proof - my experience is the same as Chumpus Rex's.

What sector are you working in? If I can get away with bullshitting it may be worth a try......

The City.

[Neverland]

The City.

Expect to be checked in any half decent institution

In a fly by night outfit you might not...

[hilltop]

Degree grades are irrelevent anyway because they are LIAR DEGREES. They are not a competency standard because there is nothing standard about them.

Each University and each department within each university sets its own standards and often its own marking protocols.

The degree a student ends up wit is only comparable to that of the guy sitting next to him on Graduation Day.

It is all a sham and a fraud for which our young people are paying through the nose.

Good employers nowadays are largely ignoring qualification grades and using assessment centre methods to make objective selections.

[Bob8]

Degree grades are irrelevent anyway because they are LIAR DEGREES. They are not a competency standard because there is nothing standard about them.

Each University and each department within each university sets its own standards and often its own marking protocols.

The degree a student ends up wit is only comparable to that of the guy sitting next to him on Graduation Day.

It is all a sham and a fraud for which our young people are paying through the nose.

Good employers nowadays are largely ignoring qualification grades and using assessment centre methods to make objective selections.

The best employers I have ever been with have used extensive interviews, not assessment centres. I would expect them for rather menial jobs.

[KingBingo]

Expect to be checked in any half decent institution

In a fly by night outfit you might not...

fly by night?

One of them had 5.1 Billion under management and is considered to be an industry leaders in its niche. Another had 1.2Bn under management and was a multi-award winning boutique, yet another was a journal read by senior banking leaders etc, and so on.

None of them have been big enough to get a bailout if that's what you mean, but hardly "fly by night"!

[Guest Skinty]

Best to omit rather than lie. I got fed up, as a professional with two postgrad degrees and decades of experience, being judged pre-interview, on my school grades. The advice I got is, if they care that much to insist you tell them at interview, do you really want to work there anyway? A lie, OTOH, is generally a dismissable offence.

Same here. I just list the GCSEs and A-levels now without giving grades. I think they are in hidden in the "other info and hobbies section".

Some employers can be really arsey about grades though. Demanding only a 2.1 or a 1st regardless of what experience or other qualifications you have. One interview I went to turned out not to be an interview but an IQ test. They said that they even had a PhD from Cambridge who specialised in their subject who didn't score highly enough for them. I walked out very annoyed.

What it tells you though is that the company isn't acting intelligently with its recruitment process, rather just going by a rule of thumb regardless. Which kind of suggests that if they aren't going to put due care and effort into this critical part, everything else is a shambles as well. I use it as a sign to stay away from the company.

As an aside, I did have a very pleasurable moment last year when a job agent phoned up to try and get to go along for an 'interview' to this company who I remembered messed me around several years previously with the IQ test. Rather than just dismiss it out of hand as that would never get back to the company, I said No unless they would interview me properly (I didn't ever have any intention to go, I just wanted to let them know that they were missing out on applicants).

[Guest Skinty]

A long time ago in a far away land, employers used to be truthful about positions they were recruiting for too though. If you've ever found out soon after taking up a position that it's not what was sold to you at interview, you'll know that telling the truth cuts both ways.

Employers lying about the position should be a compensationary offence. Unfortunately that's not how the law works in this country, so you have to give quid pro quo. They lie to you, so you lie to them.

I got caught out that way when I returned to industry. I moved all the way across the country, got myself heavily in debt because I was still finishing off my PhD and had to use their relocation loan. Soon found out that it was a nightmare of a job and the boss was an empire building bully. Took me three years to get back and ended up moving back in with my parents as we couldn't afford to move anymore.

I did have the satisfaction of destroying his authority in the department though by answering back. Other people decided it was safe enough to do so as well. No more will a meaningless bunch of squiggles on a piece of paper pass as a specification that you can be held accountable to.

[Bob8]

Same here. I just list the GCSEs and A-levels now without giving grades. I think they are in hidden in the "other info and hobbies section".

Some employers can be really arsey about grades though. Demanding only a 2.1 or a 1st regardless of what experience or other qualifications you have. One interview I went to turned out not to be an interview but an IQ test. They said that they even had a PhD from Cambridge who specialised in their subject who didn't score highly enough for them. I walked out very annoyed.

What it tells you though is that the company isn't acting intelligently with its recruitment process, rather just going by a rule of thumb regardless. Which kind of suggests that if they aren't going to put due care and effort into this critical part, everything else is a shambles as well. I use it as a sign to stay away from the company.

As an aside, I did have a very pleasurable moment last year when a job agent phoned up to try and get to go along for an 'interview' to this company who I remembered messed me around several years previously with the IQ test. Rather than just dismiss it out of hand as that would never get back to the company, I said No unless they would interview me properly (I didn't ever have any intention to go, I just wanted to let them know that they were missing out on applicants).

If you have a PhD and a BSc, I am surprised you bother with A levels, let alone GCSEs. I have not included mine for very many years and certainly hav enever been asked about them.

[The Ayatollah Buggeri]

I wouldn't risk it. I've seen an academic caught out this way. She wasn't sacked, but a career check for sure.

I'm damn sure she would have been if she was a he.

I can't but believe that your ten years experience is what they will be looking at, rather than a qualification gained at 21. They should also know that the difference between a 2:1 and a 2:2 can be only a mark or two.

I agree. As a general rule you're judged on your most recent achievements, not an exam result from 10 years ago.

The thing about outright lying on your CV (as distinct from embellishing and/or omitting embarrassing details) is that if it's discovered, your employer can dismiss you immediately; no ifs, buts or comebacks, and even if the lie is discovered after you've been working for them for many years. When companies are looking to lose staff, I've heard anecdotes to the effect that the way they start is to go through the CVs and application forms of all their staff, check them with a fine tooth comb and sack the authors of any that are found to contain an outright lie, even an insignificant one. Much cheaper and less hassle than a notice period and a redundancy payment, especially if it's a long-standing employee who would otherwise be entitled to a hefty payout.

Of course during boom times and/or if your skills are in high demand and with a lower supply of competitors, the chances of your employer feeling inclined to vet your CV thoroughly and give you your P45 if there are any porkies in it are minimal. But if that situation changes ... well, by lying on job application materials you've effectively placed a sword of Damocles over your head for as long as you're working there.

[rolf]

I hate the way high brow employers demand a 2:1. Despite a 2:2 I managed to score a half decent job from one of these muppet employers before my grade was released (always said "estimated 2:1).

Although tons of people tell small fibs, large lies are dangerous. People have been convicted of deception for it.

[juvenal]

.. well, by lying on job application materials you've effectively placed a sword of Damocles over your head for as long as you're working there.

Says all that needs to be said.

[Guest_FaFa!_*]

fly by night?

One of them had 5.1 Billion under management and is considered to be an industry leaders in its niche. Another had 1.2Bn under management and was a multi-award winning boutique, yet another was a journal read by senior banking leaders etc, and so on.

None of them have been big enough to get a bailout if that's what you mean, but hardly "fly by night"!

So the City doesn't bother to check if people are pulling a fast one. Quelle surprise.......

[Neverland]

fly by night?

One of them had 5.1 Billion under management and is considered to be an industry leaders in its niche. Another had 1.2Bn under management and was a multi-award winning boutique, yet another was a journal read by senior banking leaders etc, and so on.

None of them have been big enough to get a bailout if that's what you mean, but hardly "fly by night"!

Niche/boutique/hedge fund/private equtiy = fly by night

[KingBingo]

So the City doesn't bother to check if people are pulling a fast one. Quelle surprise.......

No, they just sack you at a moments notice if your not earning them money.

In any other job if your underperofming you get appraisals and coaching and other ********. In the City you start slacking off one morning you get called into the MD's office. Your told that your being let go and that security will escort you to the exit. Then if you wait there security will eventually arrive carrying a black bin bag of your personal items retrieved from your desk.

You spend any time working in the City and you won't have to wait long for that to happen to someone you know or work with.

So if you think its some easy cushy environment by all means apply. See how long you last.

[Granite]

I've never lied, though I admit to being fuzzy about my final grade. Not that it really matters though, it turned out my last two employers hadn't read my CV closely enough to register that i even had a degree. My previous employment was all they cared about.

The irony is, one of them was a developer of very sophisticated online recruitment software. One of its biggest selling points was a rather sophisticated AI that could be given criteria and even "learn" from hiring \ firing trends whether to flag up an applicant as suitable, or junk it before anyone looked at it. In other words, if you didn't have the right terms on your CV, it would likely be ditched by the system well before a human looked at it. It may seem harsh, but if anyone has ever dealt with recruitment in India, it's a godsend. As a note, I don't think I noticed anyone putting a degree level in as a filter, they seemed much more concerned with buzzwords.

Oh, and as an IT worker, it's amusing reading the "skills required" field on some vacancies that HR have written up. The number of jobs you see for 15K that require a "high level of skill" in a dozen different high-level technical fields is crazy. It seems like they purposefully inflate the requirements to keep up with the people who exaggerate their level of skill. It's why graduates who don't know how the system works tend to feel a sense of crushing despair when all the entry level positions "require" at least four years of commercial experience.

[Neverland]

No, they just sack you at a moments notice if your not earning them money.

In any other job if your underperofming you get appraisals and coaching and other ********. In the City you start slacking off one morning you get called into the MD's office. Your told that your being let go and that security will escort you to the exit. Then if you wait there security will eventually arrive carrying a black bin bag of your personal items retrieved from your desk.

You spend any time working in the City and you won't have to wait long for that to happen to someone you know or work with.

So if you think its some easy cushy environment by all means apply. See how long you last.

So putting two and two together the last fly by night outfit you worked for (who didnt checked your qualifications) went bust or gave you a black bag?

Btw, the whole black bag thing is pretty common outside the City I'm afraid...

[Guest X-QUORK]

No, they just sack you at a moments notice if your not earning them money.

In any other job if your underperofming you get appraisals and coaching and other ********. In the City you start slacking off one morning you get called into the MD's office. Your told that your being let go and that security will escort you to the exit. Then if you wait there security will eventually arrive carrying a black bin bag of your personal items retrieved from your desk.

You spend any time working in the City and you won't have to wait long for that to happen to someone you know or work with.

So if you think its some easy cushy environment by all means apply. See how long you last.

Boo hoo. Poor little traders.

You think it's any different being a contract employee? Well, I suppose it is different...no obscene tax-payer financed bonuses.

[Si1]

No, they just sack you at a moments notice if your not earning them money.

In any other job if your underperofming you get appraisals and coaching and other ********. In the City you start slacking off one morning you get called into the MD's office. Your told that your being let go and that security will escort you to the exit. Then if you wait there security will eventually arrive carrying a black bin bag of your personal items retrieved from your desk.

You spend any time working in the City and you won't have to wait long for that to happen to someone you know or work with.

So if you think its some easy cushy environment by all means apply. See how long you last.

has anyone been chucked within minutes of starting - because they were late on the first day, clearly daft, or whatever?

(I know a story of a trainee actuary - regional, not city - who was constantly late etc, so was fired within the probationary period, but his boss had to phone him up to get him out of bed to come in for the disciplinary meeting firing him)

[KingBingo]

So putting two and two together the last fly by night outfit you worked for (who didnt checked your qualifications) went bust or gave you a black bag?

Btw, the whole black bag thing is pretty common outside the City I'm afraid...

Why the constant goading? I'm not going to bite, troll someone else if you want a reaction.

[Neverland]

Why the constant goading? I'm not going to bite, troll someone else if you want a reaction.

Raw nerve?

So that would be the black bag option...

[KingBingo]

Raw nerve?

So that would be the black bag option...

I can at least admire your determination in your trolling, if not your wit.

[Neverland]

I can at least admire your determination in your trolling, if not your wit.

And I have a first too...

[King Stromba]

My experience is of never being checked. A 2:2 degree, but pulled my finger out and got a distinction at MSc and a PhD.

However, I have only been asked for certificates when applying outside the UK and even then only for the most recent.

Only a 2:2?

[General Melchett]

has anyone been chucked within minutes of starting - because they were late on the first day, clearly daft, or whatever?

(I know a story of a trainee actuary - regional, not city - who was constantly late etc, so was fired within the probationary period, but his boss had to phone him up to get him out of bed to come in for the disciplinary meeting firing him)

No, but I've known a couple of peeps who have been (both were compulsive liars). I also had a lady, mature in years, excellent CV, who just didnt come into work on day 3. When we eventually tracked her down she was in tears about how unreasonable I'd been and how hard the job was. It was the entry level position in the lab (ordering, keeping records etc) and myself and the previous incumbent 'held her hand to break her in.' I was frankly amazed that an older woman with work experience would behave like a 16 year old, but there you go. Had an alcoholic co-worker in the lab where I did my PhD but, perhaps being public sector, the HR department would not support my supervisor in giving him the heave-ho, so he got through the probation period and it got even harder to ditch him.