Does Anyone Know Anyone Buying Abroad In 2009?

[sleepless]

Think its ground to a complete halt.

[Frank Hovis]

Think its ground to a complete halt.

No. There have been a lot of stories of people losing their shirt when it all goes wrong, I saw this one today:

http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/glo...il/article.html

My 40K Bulgarian nightmare

Friday, May 01, 2009, 08:04

17 readers have commented on this story.

Click here to read their views.

A TEACHER'S dream holiday home in Bulgaria has turned into a nightmare.

Rhona Donaldson, from Springbank, bought a luxury apartment in the country for £40,000 after spotting the property at a homes fair at The Centaur in August 2006.

The 28-year-old, who teaches PE at Dean Close School, agreed to pay half the money up front and the rest on completion of the house.

The property, which was originally due to be completed by the end of 2007, is situated in the Shatto development near the mountain ski resort town of Bansko. It was planned as an ideal spot for winter get-aways and summer walking trips.

In March last year, Miss Donaldson was contacted by Birmingham-based property company Amba Sun UK calling for the final balance to be paid.

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She thought the property was near completion. But, last month she received a letter from the company, telling her it had gone into liquidation.

Since then she claims she has been trying to contact the firm, fearing she may have lost everything, but hasn't been able to get a response.

Miss Donaldson said: "I bought the property in the first place because I thought it would be a good investment and somewhere nice to go in the holidays.

"But since I paid the first balance to Amba Sun UK, the date for the project's completion has continually been put back.

"Then, just when it was almost within touching distance, I got a letter telling me the company has gone under. I'm worried I'll lose the whole £40,000."

Miss Donaldson claims she was sent recent photos of the property, which show it is far from finished.

She said she was directed by Amba Sun UK to seek legal advice from a Bulgarian solicitor to mediate between her and the developers.

Last week she was told by solicitors she may be able to take the home on as it is, leaving her to pay thousands more on getting the building up to scratch.

Rhona added: "I'm a pretty positive person and I think getting the property unfinished would be better than nothing at all.

"It could be a project for me to work on during the holidays, so I still haven't given up hope.

"But I would warn anyone looking to buy property abroad to be careful."

Amba Sun UK went into voluntary liquidation on April 22. When the Echo tried to trace the firm there was no reply.

Peter Alton-King, chief executive of the National Association of Estate Agents, said: "Amba Sun UK is not a member of the NAEA. If it was, homeowners such as Miss Donaldson would be protected under current legislation.

"My advice would be to anyone buying a property abroad to take the maximum amount of advice before committing themselves."

[helenreed]

The name of the development should have rang a few warning bells.

[righttoleech]

Overseas markets for ramping have become more and more distant over the years.........Bulgaria by no means the most obscure, at least being an EU member, albeit a latecomer. It is not long since the publicity was about these places being 'the new Spain'......they are not saying that anymore. I would have hoped that a teacher would have more sense than to be dragged into one of these scams, but since she is able to afford to buy a holiday home at 28, maybe the meeja is right about us 'all being so well off' these days

[helenreed]

'Sir' Fred - although I don't know him personally.

[Fromage Frais]

It going to be a wake up for some

I looked in the paper today no house in a decent part of Tunis under 550k dinars 250k pounds.

There was even a house for sale for 9500000 or four millon quid.

Tunisia is bloody expensive now so on 3000 a year average wages you wonder where the money comes from

It just amazes me how people paid so mcuh for foreign property especially in non EU markets

[Eric S Doms]

Think its ground to a complete halt.

The way I see it, things will have to improve in the UK first before anyone will even think of buying abroad.

But that is still a long way off so 2009 is gonna be a slooooowwwwwwwwww year for developers.......

[BrianR]

Yes but they are very selective as you can imagine

As always the most important aspect is location and in recessions like this buyers tend to be conservative and hence go back to basic locations

That is why France and Spain will remain popular...known locations and modern economies and as far as Spain is concerned all the problems of the past have been sorted by new regulations for buyers

Off plan is dead in the water or should I say 'in concrete' for several years to come

Those buying want ready now or re sales..there is ofcourse no benefit in buying off plan now ...just extra risks

Also buyers are much more aware of the market and just now in Spain there are some excellent buys for 'life style ' buyers including distressed sales

EG: 2 bed duplex with large solarium in an attractive established small complex, facing the right way and 15 mins walk to sea........they paid 185.000 € but now to get out of the mortgage need 130.000 €!

Also lots of ready now of all types with asking prices down 25%- 3 bed quad in Mercia was 189.000 € now 140.000 € ...an so on!

Now you may or may not be buying at the bottom of the cycle, no one ever knows when the bottom is reached until afterwards!

But at least in Spain reality has set in and if you buy in good locations, then medium to long term you should be OK and in the meantime have lots of life style fun

Be a bit careful of buying re sales direct as if the seller does not have to sell , then sometimes the asking prices are historic!.......most agents today can not afford to market properties at unrealistic prices!

So whilst it is slow, it is not all doom and gloom and there are buyers in Spain.....but in my experience a lot waiting to see what happens to the exchange rate this year...if it improves as some expect to 1.25 this year then I think we will see a lot more activity

As far as I know it is the same in France but less supply of ready now from builders who are prepared to accept sensible offers

[Peter Hun]

Now you may or may not be buying at the bottom of the cycle, no one ever knows when the bottom is reached until afterwards!

Actually the peak of the boom is a sharp spike, but the bottom of a crash is a long, flat, wallowing mush.

There will be years of stagnation in the housing market around the world. It is NO WHERE NEAR the bottom of the market and it cannot pick-up quickly - there will be far too many people in debt and banks will be short of money to lend for years.

Spain has lost its domestic customers to unemployment and recession as well as the foreign buyers will will dump/cancel the second home. Exchange rates have wiped out UK buyers for a cuple of years. Spain will have a depressed housing market for years.

Edited May 4, 2009 by Peter Hun

[Agentimmo]

Why buy when you can rent a good 1 bed room at a 3* hotel for 30€ a night on the Costa Blanca / Dorada. With breakfast and a swimming pool included?

In-laws did that last week.

Unless you are buying for the bragging rights, it makes no sense at the moment.

[HPCatlast.]

No, not buying in 2009. Bought a 'holiday home' 5 years ago in France.

Now decided it's time to promote it to the main home, got to get out of this property/tax time bomb.

Can't imagine how much taxes will have to be increased to balance the books and keep the chavs in

the manner that they have become accustomed to.

Welfare state is due for serious overhaul, in similar manner to MP's expenses!! can'k keep printing moneys.

RiG

[spectre]

Why buy when you can rent a good 1 bed room at a 3* hotel for 30€ a night on the Costa Blanca / Dorada. With breakfast and a swimming pool included?

In-laws did that last week.

Unless you are buying for the bragging rights, it makes no sense at the moment.

I don't understand the logic of buying abroad, especially when it also means returning to the same place year after year.

[Guest redwine]

I don't understand the logic of buying abroad, especially when it also means returning to the same place year after year.

on todays bbc news site ,secton business theres an article by sam goss assistant producer propertywatch

"ex-pats give up on provence dream "if you are in france you have to click on to the uk version to see it not the international one happy reading

[Nautorius]

Yes...or at least I want too.

It does, however depend on two things.

Firstly sellers getting realistic. Massive oversupply, no fundamentals ie. jobs to underpin values and dodgy building permissions! Get the prices down to 1998 levels (not 2006) and I will consider it.

Secondly a serious bounce in the stock market.........as that is where my deposit money is!

Looking at Costa del sol within 30 mins of Gibraltar.

N.

[sleepless]

Yes...or at least I want too.

It does, however depend on two things.

Firstly sellers getting realistic. Massive oversupply, no fundamentals ie. jobs to underpin values and dodgy building permissions! Get the prices down to 1998 levels (not 2006) and I will consider it.

Secondly a serious bounce in the stock market.........as that is where my deposit money is!

Looking at Costa del sol within 30 mins of Gibraltar.

N.

No offence, but IMO its unlikely you will be buying for quite some time.

But your reply is the nearest to yes as the answer to my question. If Spain prices were at 1998 and equities back to 2007 levels I doubt I'd need to ask the question

Edited May 21, 2009 by sleepless

[Nautorius]

No offence, but IMO its unlikely you will be buying for quite some time.

But your reply is the nearest to yes as the answer to my question. If Spain prices were at 1998 and equities back to 2007 levels I doubt I'd need to ask the question

To be fair only need 30% of 2007 equities value! Already at about 18% so not far to go. As for the price in Spain, well 1998 is realistic I believe.

But happily renting and waiting....I think I will be an owner in the next 12 months.

Cheers

N

[Eric S Doms]

Can you tell us what country you'll be buying property in?

Or is it too early to tell?

[911-caused-it-all]

Can you tell us what country you'll be buying property in?

Or is it too early to tell?

How about buying into a Brazilian resort (pre-build) for a Medium to Long Term Investment !!! I'm considering it.

[Caribbean Beauty]

How about buying into a Brazilian resort (pre-build) for a Medium to Long Term Investment !!! I'm considering it.

How will you fly there from East Anglia? How robust are any existing air links from London's airports? Who will pay to stay in your villa when you are not using it? Are you one of the easily-excited sheeple who believe that it must be a good investment because it is "cheap"? Like a Primark sweater, it won't go up in value, trust me, and the running costs will eat you alive.

Look what happened to those who bought off-plan in Bulgaria (and other emerging markets which have now de-emerged or whatever the opposite of emerged is!?). Therin lies Brazil resorts' future - doomed.

[911-caused-it-all]

How will you fly there from East Anglia? How robust are any existing air links from London's airports? Who will pay to stay in your villa when you are not using it? Are you one of the easily-excited sheeple who believe that it must be a good investment because it is "cheap"? Like a Primark sweater, it won't go up in value, trust me, and the running costs will eat you alive.

Look what happened to those who bought off-plan in Bulgaria (and other emerging markets which have now de-emerged or whatever the opposite of emerged is!?). Therin lies Brazil resorts' future - doomed.

Fair comment. Brazil is a bit unstable at the moment but in the future may become a rich nation, un-tapped oil reserves exist off the coast etc. "Predictions by leading financiers, Goldman Sachs, are ranking Brazil amongst the top 5 world economies by the year 2050."

It was a resort I was buying into not a villa, it's just for investment not my own holidaying purposes.

The only reason it's cheap is I would ideally look to buy at pre-launch prices or at pre-planning stage - one of those rip-off deals that you put a % down to start with that will probably never get built ... but if Brazil did take off (which part... Salvador - that's where any 'rich' Brazilians would holiday themselves) the rewards would be likely far greater than any housing investment in this country (continent!).

I'm looking into many ways to take advantage of the downturn at the moment, got to go through the mad ideas to find a good one. But this doesn't sound too wacky?

[Caribbean Beauty]

Fair comment. Brazil is a bit unstable at the moment but in the future may become a rich nation, un-tapped oil reserves exist off the coast etc. "Predictions by leading financiers, Goldman Sachs, are ranking Brazil amongst the top 5 world economies by the year 2050."

It was a resort I was buying into not a villa, it's just for investment not my own holidaying purposes.

The only reason it's cheap is I would ideally look to buy at pre-launch prices or at pre-planning stage - one of those rip-off deals that you put a % down to start with that will probably never get built ... but if Brazil did take off (which part... Salvador - that's where any 'rich' Brazilians would holiday themselves) the rewards would be likely far greater than any housing investment in this country (continent!).

I'm looking into many ways to take advantage of the downturn at the moment, got to go through the mad ideas to find a good one. But this doesn't sound too wacky?

Corruption, dysfunctional courts system....how would you get your money back if it went wrong, or even if it started ok but down the road the resort tried to rip off owners with unreasonable hikes in maintenance charges etc?

If you must pay down, use a UK credit card (which I doubt they will accept) and pay down within the CCA 1974 payment protection limits - as you sure as hell won't get any help from the local courts if things go awry.

But Salvador is lovely - I once bought a domestic tourism package week there when I was visiting friends in Sao Paulo 10 years ago and it is indeed a playground for rich and middle class Brazilians wanting to go somewhere to relax where it is less likely they will be gunned down for their wrist-watch or mobile phone, or car-jacked at traffic lights (NOBODY stops at lights in Sao Paulo for that reason). Hope it lasts....

[helenreed]

CB correct again.

Good friend of mine married a Brazilian girl. Lived there for 3 years. During that time he was robbed at least 8 times and beaten up during these robberies five times. Says as a 'gringo' he was prime target even though he lived and worked with wifes' family. He says he was scared and felt threatened the whole time he was there. Final straw - he was kidnapped for a couple of days until the family paid up about $2,000 to have him released. After that he could not get the airport outta there quick enough.

He and wife now happily in UK. Wife returns to Brazil for holidays - he stays here.

[911-caused-it-all]

Good friend of mine married a Brazilian girl. Lived there for 3 years. During that time he was robbed at least 8 times and beaten up during these robberies five times. Says as a 'gringo' he was prime target even though he lived and worked with wifes' family. He says he was scared and felt threatened the whole time he was there. Final straw - he was kidnapped for a couple of days until the family paid up about $2,000 to have him released. After that he could not get the airport outta there quick enough.

He and wife now happily in UK. Wife returns to Brazil for holidays - he stays here.

Holy smoke thanks for the info, been to Jamacia though that was bad!

These are 5* resorts that are being put up in several locations including St Vincent & Barbados and they are all run by the same organisation. Always a risk but getting involved at an early stage might be worth taking a chance as certainly outlaying 15k initially on the Brazil one seems less than putting up between 27k and 85k on the St Vincent & Barbodos ones which are nearer completion. I am very skeptical though - I think France would be a safer bet for buying a property abroad. But these big resorts offer 100% property management + possibly ya pension sorted.

[Caribbean Beauty]

CB correct again.

Good friend of mine married a Brazilian girl. Lived there for 3 years. During that time he was robbed at least 8 times and beaten up during these robberies five times. Says as a 'gringo' he was prime target even though he lived and worked with wifes' family. He says he was scared and felt threatened the whole time he was there. Final straw - he was kidnapped for a couple of days until the family paid up about $2,000 to have him released. After that he could not get the airport outta there quick enough.

He and wife now happily in UK. Wife returns to Brazil for holidays - he stays here.

What a seething writhing hellish nightmare! This is the problem we found (on a much reduced scale) when we lived on our Caribbean island - I am mixed race but the wife is white blonde Brit and we became natural targets. Before we installed razor wire and got a Rottie to support our 2 mongrels it got so bad that I was thinking of installing a DSS style number-ticket system so the robbers could not queue jump each other anymore before piling over our fence, when we were in or out!

I think 911's post reflects the common first world misconception of poor or developing 3rd or 2nd world tropical nations as some kind of flaw-free paradise.

Sadly, one only has to look at Haiti, Mexico, Colombia, Kenya, RSA, Jamaica, Trinidad etc to see how the once (comparatively) ordered, peaceful tropical paradises of this world have become spoiled by crack and the drugs barons, to the point where the only safe people are extremely wealthy and usually involved in the trade in some way.

The biggets problem with investing in one of the armed-compound type resorts in jamaica or Brazil (apart from the niggling fear that the armed guards will be shot or bribed by the robbers) is that tourism is fragile, combined with the obvious risks of leaving the compound putting a damper on the hols.

Best stick to france or one of the safer small islands, is my advice - although even the safer small islands are slowly slipping into chaos, which will get worse as IMF interventions fail to save the hungry folks newly made unemployed by their closing hotels....we are all doomed, doomed I tell you!

[opsiuk]

Think its ground to a complete halt.

Hi,

Not at all. Turkey is doing ok with the Lira/pound still doing ok. Good value for money in an upwardly moving market. Plus tourism is on the increase year by year