A Compelling Reason Why We Don't Want The American Big Business Healthcare Model

[Si1]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/~/article-3782265/index.html

How did this happen?

Take just one example: in 1995, the Food and Drug Administration approved the opioid analgesic OxyContin, made predominantly from the opium-derivative oxycodone.

It grew rapidly to represent a third of Americas entire painkiller market, actively prescribed by doctors being paid large sums of cash by drugs companies to promote it.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3782265/PIERS-MORGAN-real-scandal-photo-isn-t-two-wretched-feckless-drug-addicts-s-criminal-greed-incompetence-government-drug-companies-doctors-enabled-them.html#ixzz4JpVEy3Dd

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[200p]

Our masters, the establishment have to decide if this green pleasant land of cream teas, buttered crumpets, and cricket, are ready for the full flood gate opening of corporatisation, Blade Runner style. I hope not.

If so, I hope you are all rich, and can afford to live in private gated communities, have large banks of BTL, and able to pay for private health insurance.

Edited September 10, 2016 by 200p

[ccc]

I've been in that state a few times

Nor driving a car with a kid in the back mind you.

Have a Pal who lives in US now. Has lots of issues. Got pretty much addicted to some drug - oxy something.

Said it was brutal coming off it.

[Si1]

I've been in that state a few times

Nor driving a car with a kid in the back mind you.

Have a Pal who lives in US now. Has lots of issues. Got pretty much addicted to some drug - oxy something.

Said it was brutal coming off it.

Oxycontin?

[porca misèria]

[chop]

That was on Radio 4 a few days ago. Wonder if the Wail nicked it?

The big sticking points on TTIP are areas like this, where the EU won't accept practices that the US insists on. Even more important instances are food pumped full of growth hormones (which I think the EU is entirely right to resist) or genetically modified (where the EU is wrong but nevertheless has an underlying point).

With brexit, we in Blighty will be in urgent need of new trade deals, and in a much weaker negotiating position. Chances are we'll roll over and accept US conditions with just some token concessions on their part, just to get an agreement up-and-running.

That could have quite a radical effect on shopping. Because Uncle Sam won't accept practices that would lead to de facto exclusion of their growth-hormone-filled, genetically modified beef. Like, for instance, labelling, whether directly in the form of "GM-free" or indeed a proxy like "British reared".

[Blod]

I've been in that state a few times

Nor driving a car with a kid in the back mind you.

Have a Pal who lives in US now. Has lots of issues. Got pretty much addicted to some drug - oxy something.

Said it was brutal coming off it.

The NHS used to prescribes these drugs routinely. The danger is that they often prescribe for long tern conditions. They subdue the pain but can't be stopped you have to slowly withdraw from them. Let's hope that UK doctors haven't also created this problem.

On a separate point does anyone know how to contact the Mods, my account is playing up.

[Si1]

That was on Radio 4 a few days ago. Wonder if the Wail nicked it?

The big sticking points on TTIP are areas like this, where the EU won't accept practices that the US insists on. Even more important instances are food pumped full of growth hormones (which I think the EU is entirely right to resist) or genetically modified (where the EU is wrong but nevertheless has an underlying point).

With brexit, we in Blighty will be in urgent need of new trade deals, and in a much weaker negotiating position. Chances are we'll roll over and accept US conditions with just some token concessions on their part, just to get an agreement up-and-running.

That could have quite a radical effect on shopping. Because Uncle Sam won't accept practices that would lead to de facto exclusion of their growth-hormone-filled, genetically modified beef. Like, for instance, labelling, whether directly in the form of "GM-free" or indeed a proxy like "British reared".

That's a concern. American meat is, I understand, much more intensively reared than European meat, with measurable health consequences from eating it.

[MonkeyPuzzle]

America hasn't had doctors since the 1970s. They have Salesdoctors, basically. When a hospital (almost all are private) invests in a machine-that-goes-ping which measures the thickness of your fingernails for example, the hospital administration is constantly monitoring use of that machine because 'use' means they're charging patients or patients' insurance companies every time it's switched on. If there's not enough use of the machine, the hospital Administration comes down on the doctors like a ton of bricks -- "I didn't pay 13 million dollars for the Ping-Machine to find you guys have only used it 25 times last year. You get more patients under that goddam thing or I'll break you" and doctors are under strict orders to find 200 patients a year who urgently need their fingernail thicknesses scanned so that the Ping-Machine turns a profit.

If that's the kind of system you want, that's what coming. You'd better never be chronically ill, unemployed or old, where your insurers don't like you any more.

[Si1]

America hasn't had doctors since the 1970s. They have Salesdoctors, basically. When a hospital (almost all are private) invests in a machine-that-goes-ping which measures the thickness of your fingernails for example, the hospital administration is constantly monitoring use of that machine because 'use' means they're charging patients or patients' insurance companies every time it's switched on. If there's not enough use of the machine, the hospital Administration comes down on the doctors like a ton of bricks -- "I didn't pay 13 million dollars for the Ping-Machine to find you guys have only used it 25 times last year. You get more patients under that goddam thing or I'll break you" and doctors are under strict orders to find 200 patients a year who urgently need their fingernail thicknesses scanned so that the Ping-Machine turns a profit.

If that's the kind of system you want, that's what coming. You'd better never be chronically ill, unemployed or old, where your insurers don't like you any more.

America is not the only country with a market oriented healthcare system. Whilst us firms are involved in setting up the market based system in the UK, the fact we have generally more left leaning politics in this country should mean it is more like the European social market healthcare models, I hope. The certainty of your post is absurd.

[spyguy]

Again, the options for a UK health system are not NHS, US system or none.

The US system is bent.

UK needs to look to other western european and singapore for ideas.

The oxycotain fckup is criminal. They need to treat prescibing Drs like they would blackmen selling coke,-lock them up for 30 years.

[MonkeyPuzzle]

America is not the only country with a market oriented healthcare system. Whilst us firms are involved in setting up the market based system in the UK, the fact we have generally more left leaning politics in this country should mean it is more like the European social market healthcare models, I hope. The certainty of your post is absurd.

Not absurd -- cynical perhaps, but then I did spend 20 years of my life in America. Again, IF that's the kind of system people want, that's what's coming.

And the same market forces that drive Salesdoctors to send patients needlessly under the Ping-Machine drives Salesdoctors to prescribe (or, in many cases, hand out -- they sometimes do 'free samples' in the States at the end of an appointment) extremely dangerous and toxic medications to people who clearly should not be given it. Least of all given it on a permanent basis.

That's what's coming if people stay asleep at the wheel -- same as if they want their supermarkets loading up on 'super-nutricious TM' genetically modified produce, intensively-raised hormone-injected meat, and the ability of corporations to sue sovereign governments for big taxpayer bucks in sealed/secret trials if the democratically-elected governments do (or even say they're going to do) anything to disrupt the profits of those corporations in any way whatsoever, then TTIP is something they shouldn't concern themselves about.

[stuckin2up2down]

Again, the options for a UK health system are not NHS, US system or none.

Exactly. People speak as if there is only two systems out there.

"The NHS is great it saved my life, it should never be touched"

[porca misèria]

Exactly. People speak as if there is only two systems out there.

"The NHS is great it saved my life, it should never be touched"

Sadly the alternative is necessarily unspoken:

"The NHS is crap: it strung me along until it was too late to go elsewhere, now I'm dead".

So perhaps I should speak it again on behalf of my late lamented relative, whose NHS cancer operation remained for 4-5 months on a "week after next" timescale until it was too late.

[sikejsudjek]

The NHS is a better system than private insurance based systems, but it needs to be properly funded by actually taxing multinationals and tax dodging millionaires, and by getting rid of PFI rip offs. The tax payer got £57 billion of assets for £300 billion. This is just out and out neoliberal corruption.

[stuckin2up2down]

Sadly the alternative is necessarily unspoken:

"The NHS is crap: it strung me along until it was too late to go elsewhere, now I'm dead".

So perhaps I should speak it again on behalf of my late lamented relative, whose NHS cancer operation remained for 4-5 months on a "week after next" timescale until it was too late.

Exactly. Although that line is better than people that usual compare the NHS vs having no health service what so ever.

Half of my grandparents died from superbugs they contracted in hospital, one was about to be discharged having recovered from what they went in for.

[porca misèria]

The NHS is a better system than private insurance based systems,

Any particular private insurance based system?

[billybong]

A Compelling Reason Why We Don't Want The American Big Business Healthcare Model

To the back of the queue with it.

[BorrowToLeech]

Exactly. People speak as if there is only two systems out there.

"The NHS is great it saved my life, it should never be touched"

Of course there are plenty of healthcare models to choose from, many worse than the NHS, some better.

So what?

The psychopaths who want to dismantle the NHS aren't interested in having a good system, they are interested in having the most market-based system.

You think modern British politicians would come up with an improved healthcare system?

They've never improved anything.

Edited September 10, 2016 by BuyToLeech

[dgul]

The NHS is a better system than private insurance based systems, but it needs to be properly funded by actually taxing multinationals and tax dodging millionaires, and by getting rid of PFI rip offs. The tax payer got £57 billion of assets for £300 billion. This is just out and out neoliberal corruption.

Just be careful with making your assessment based on 'funded' (ie, input costs, rather than output) - the UK spends about as much on healthcare per head as every other developed nation. Oh, apart from the USA, which spends double per head. Still, it is the best healthcare in the world...

I can make up a system which manages to extract ever lager quantities of wealth from the population - the tricky bit is spending it wisely.

[PopGun]

Just be careful with making your assessment based on 'funded' (ie, input costs, rather than output) - the UK spends about as much on healthcare per head as every other developed nation. Oh, apart from the USA, which spends double per head. Still, it is the best healthcare in the world...

I can make up a system which manages to extract ever lager quantities of wealth from the population - the tricky bit is spending it wisely.

As % GDP or per capita it's dropping.

[Si1]

As % GDP or per capita it's dropping.

I'm certain it is, I believe this is one of the flipsides of hosing the retired boomers with holiday money. WHEN they end up in hospital it will have third world funding. Serves them right.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Si1

[Assume The Opposite]

Lost my dad over a decade ago due to cancer. They didn't find out what was wrong until it was too late. Even if they would of found it earlier I'm not sure if it would of made any difference.

Do I think we should have a private 'efficient' healthcare system?

Absolutely not.

The NHS at the moment is being infiltrated by the private sector who have one interest: money.

Hunt co-wrote a book calling for the privatisation of the NHS and education. Can't say they didn't warn us.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Assume The Opposite

[spyguy]

As % GDP or per capita it's dropping.

Healthcare spending as a % of GDP is useless.

You need to know £/head.

[PopGun]

Healthcare spending as a % of GDP is useless.

You need to know £/head.

Yes... Per capita...