Predictions

[Garry AKA Pod]

Well, if 'they' do get their NWO, I hope it all ends like the Ben Elton novel Stark.

[Flat Bear]

ok. what do we think the population of the world will be in:

2008 6.7Billion

2015

2020

2030

Might give an indication of how bearish posters see the future. Maybe we need a poll.

This is very interesting

According to the more well informed scientists and if "nothing happens" ie no wars, global acts of god, global disease etc then before the end of the century almost all civilisation as we know it will cease. Senarios vary wildly as to what/which group will go on or how evolution goes on from there. If all else fails it will be simple starvation.

BUT there is a very high percentage that something will happen when all events are added together. As the global population rises we will become more vunerable as a whole.

So we should pray that say one of the more likely "something happens" senarios occures such as a global killer disease.

As to prediction

2008 6.8 billion (sorry but its gone up)

Now according to United Nations Population Division, World Population Prospects, 13 March 2007 we will only see 9.2 billion by 2050 but this has to be tempered with the fact they have already underestimated growth this year.

end of

2015 7.2 billion

2020 7.5 billion

2030 8.0 billion

I really do believe it is possible for the total global population to reach around a 12 billion population This would be a feat, but obviously for only a very short time. It is more likely that it will reach around 10 billion before self destruct.

Is very high population a good thing in any way?

Well one of the highest population densities can be found here, in England. How has this helped us?

There are two major ways it helps us the UK government

Every new immigrant actually adds something to the overall GDP even if he doesnt earn he must spend, so our GDP goes up and so does growth figure. Babies are not quite so good in this respect as they tend not to spend themselves but government can still use them by allocating allowances which again helps distort figures upwards.

It helps keep certain services in high demand and costly thus maintaining a valued infastructure which can be used as a means of measuring wealth creation thus allowing liquidity to be offset against these rising assets. Housing is the prime example and as demand increases value inceases thus allowing those who are already homeowner to benifit from this increased value which has the potential to be "unlocked" and once again create growth.

So if you want growth, then you want population increase as it is the easiest option without the need to actually create anything.

Shrinking population has exactly the opposite affect So if you want recession/depression this is the way to go.

Unfortunately these are the economic facts and why immigration has been championed for the last 10 years.

[t350t]

This is very interesting

According to the more well informed scientists and if "nothing happens" ie no wars, global acts of god, global disease etc then before the end of the century almost all civilisation as we know it will cease. Senarios vary wildly as to what/which group will go on or how evolution goes on from there. If all else fails it will be simple starvation.

BUT there is a very high percentage that something will happen when all events are added together. As the global population rises we will become more vunerable as a whole.

So we should pray that say one of the more likely "something happens" senarios occures such as a global killer disease.

As to prediction

2008 6.8 billion (sorry but its gone up)

Now according to United Nations Population Division, World Population Prospects, 13 March 2007 we will only see 9.2 billion by 2050 but this has to be tempered with the fact they have already underestimated growth this year.

end of

2015 7.2 billion

2020 7.5 billion

2030 8.0 billion

I really do believe it is possible for the total global population to reach around a 12 billion population This would be a feat, but obviously for only a very short time. It is more likely that it will reach around 10 billion before self destruct.

Is very high population a good thing in any way?

Well one of the highest population densities can be found here, in England. How has this helped us?

There are two major ways it helps us the UK government

Every new immigrant actually adds something to the overall GDP even if he doesnt earn he must spend, so our GDP goes up and so does growth figure. Babies are not quite so good in this respect as they tend not to spend themselves but government can still use them by allocating allowances which again helps distort figures upwards.

It helps keep certain services in high demand and costly thus maintaining a valued infastructure which can be used as a means of measuring wealth creation thus allowing liquidity to be offset against these rising assets. Housing is the prime example and as demand increases value inceases thus allowing those who are already homeowner to benifit from this increased value which has the potential to be "unlocked" and once again create growth.

So if you want growth, then you want population increase as it is the easiest option without the need to actually create anything.

Shrinking population has exactly the opposite affect So if you want recession/depression this is the way to go.

Unfortunately these are the economic facts and why immigration has been championed for the last 10 years.

so it's a classic case of policies optimizing the wrong number? quality of life should surely be a higher priority.

I always thought the world went mad at the point where Housing was a better investment than a stock in a productive business.

pure madness, and we'll all suffer for it

2030 8.0 billion

It is more likely that it will reach around 10 billion before self destruct.

terrifying, look how miserable we are now...

[Flat Bear]

so it's a classic case of policies optimizing the wrong number? quality of life should surely be a higher priority.

I always thought the world went mad at the point where Housing was a better investment than a stock in a productive business.

pure madness, and we'll all suffer for it

terrifying, look how miserable we are now...

I agree with you 100% but facts must be faced

Nulab went into a world of their own and Brown actually believed he was responsible for 16 years of growth and they believe they can change anything if they interfer enough.

Can you not see the lastest ways they are trying to prop the property market up? Stopping repossesions, buying up unsold properties, getting the banks to lend again at 2007 levels etc they openly admit they want prices to rise. They will do everything they can to keep immigration positive especially in this time of need.

They live in a completely different world to you and I where growth is everything and "hard working families" (non of which actually do work) must be helped in every way as well as (small businesses) This gets me really mad I run a small business only 6 employees and hes making everything worse for me continually. The list goes on and on (i might start a thread) The bare faced lies still wind me up.

[cartimandua51]

Well, if 'they' do get their NWO, I hope it all ends like the Ben Elton novel Stark.

OK, I'm probably going to regret asking this, but would someone explain what this NWO is? Putting "New World Order" into Google produced 5.3 million hits, starting with a wikipedia history of Woodrow Wilson & the League of Nations, but I suspect this isn't what's being referred to. I don't want to have to trawl the posts if avoidable, can someone sane give me the two-sentence summary? We aren't with bloody Nostradamus, are we?

[winkie]

It is New

It envolves the World

It has an Order to it...pecking order...social order....financial order...?

[deflation]

I agree with you 100% but facts must be faced

Nulab went into a world of their own and Brown actually believed he was responsible for 16 years of growth and they believe they can change anything if they interfer enough.

Hmmm, Labour has been in govt for 11 years. To claim credit for 16 years of growth would be amazing even for him

[Sinking Feeling]

OK, I'm probably going to regret asking this, but would someone explain what this NWO is? Putting "New World Order" into Google produced 5.3 million hits, starting with a wikipedia history of Woodrow Wilson & the League of Nations, but I suspect this isn't what's being referred to. I don't want to have to trawl the posts if avoidable, can someone sane give me the two-sentence summary? We aren't with bloody Nostradamus, are we?

You're talking about over 200 years of history and a mountain of quotes from Prime Ministers, Presidents, Industrialists, Economists, Politicians (and the odd nutter) about the existence of international banking families that control the world banking systems, national governments and supra-national organisations. The Rothschilds and Rockefellers being the most prominent names that crop up.

[1929crash]

Gordon Brown wins the next election.

[Sheer Heart Attack]

In the next 5-10 years, a further consolidation of wealth into the hands of the very wealthy.

Cash will be king for the next 20 years to come, maybe more. Feel rest assured that, just like every other major economic shock resulting in a productivity collapse, that the recovery will be led and financed by those with the reddies in the bank (who will more and more be our brothers and sisters in the Near and Far East). It's just a case of waiting for the bottom to take the opportunities that will be in abundance.

My gut feeling is that the bank "rescues" will postpone the real contraction for another 2 years or so. Many exotic instruments will explode in the meantime, but since it's all underwritten by the government now anyway (who can print money, regardless of its future impact on the worth of cash), no-one (except HPCers and others like us) will worry about it.

There'll also be a very real possibility that the Western governments and major corporations will default on debt, causing the run of all time.

The only saving grace for the West will be war. Strategically, the massive advantage the West has over other countries is its military power.

This will be used to secure oil and food supplies across the world for perhaps a couple of decades until the rest of the world finally decides to shake the dollar off as its reserve currency. There'll come a point where those heavily invested in the dollar will think it's worth liquidating their positions to force the current dominant order into subservience.

War, shortages, surveillance and more is to come. And I believed that before the credit crunch happened.

Addendum

As one generally sympathetic to conspiracy theories, I've always thought the New World Order (as popularly expressed) was an idea with little foundation in reality.

It's a battle of supremacy between various groups trying to establish an order that would suit them. I can't see the South Americans or the Chinese, for example, being overly keen on the US/European model of the world.

[wonderpup]

I'm talking mass starvation, war and utter chaos.

This is already a reality for a lot of people now. Basicly, if we view the financial system as a mechanisem for determining who gets to consume what resources, the west has been running a rigged game for centuries that has allowed us to consume most of what is available. What looks to be happening now is that the west, partly through it's own stupidity, is begining to lose it's grip on that monopoly- so it looks at best to be a future of gradual decline for eurpoe and the us, as more of our available wealth is diverted into the purchase of lifes neccessities in a more competitive game.

[Alibear]

There'll also be a very real possibility that the Western governments and major corporations will default on debt, causing the run of all time.

The only saving grace for the West will be war. Strategically, the massive advantage the West has over other countries is its military power.

This will be used to secure oil and food supplies across the world for perhaps a couple of decades until the rest of the world finally decides to shake the dollar off as its reserve currency. There'll come a point where those heavily invested in the dollar will think it's worth liquidating their positions to force the current dominant order into subservience.

War, shortages, surveillance and more is to come. And I believed that before the credit crunch happened.

Unfortuneately I agree with this scenario. The US does not like foreign companys/countries buying up its important assets. To prevent this, the goverment will continue to bail out where necessary increasing the downward spiral of the $ and rocketing domestic inflation.

[Errol]

Gold will reach in excess of $1650 by 2011. The dollar will collapse.

[Guest mattsta1964]

This is already a reality for a lot of people now. Basicly, if we view the financial system as a mechanisem for determining who gets to consume what resources, the west has been running a rigged game for centuries that has allowed us to consume most of what is available. What looks to be happening now is that the west, partly through it's own stupidity, is begining to lose it's grip on that monopoly- so it looks at best to be a future of gradual decline for eurpoe and the us, as more of our available wealth is diverted into the purchase of lifes neccessities in a more competitive game.

The people who control all the wealth will use it to their advantage as they see fit.

Back in 1971, Nixon cut the first trade deals with China and the dollar came off the gold standard and bacame backed by oil. They must have known what the consequences of allowing China's economy to become developed and competitive. Most of America's manufacturing jobs are now in China and the Fareast for a fraction of the cost. It's just business right? They don't give fekk that it is wiping out the middle class in America.

If the story is true, and there is evidence to support it, there are HUGE reserves of oil in Alaska. Those reserves are alleged to be equal to or larger than those held by Saudi Arabia. There's enough oil up there to support America's current energy demands for 200 years. The infrastructure for pumping it is all in palce. You can even look at it on Google maps.......which I did this very morning.

They aren't allowing a single barrel of that oil to come out of the ground because it'll destroy the dollar. Oil prices have to be kept high enough to sustain the petrodollar and the export of America's national debt.

[Sheer Heart Attack]

Unfortuneately I agree with this scenario. The US does not like foreign companys/countries buying up its important assets. To prevent this, the goverment will continue to bail out where necessary increasing the downward spiral of the $ and rocketing domestic inflation.

It's survival of the fitness - morality and fairness does not figure in these equations.

As much as I opposed the Iraq war, for example, as much as it offended my sense of decency, the question in the UK we all need to ask is would we prefer them to control the oil or would we rather control it.

If peak oil is true, and I see no really compelling reason to doubt it, a moral compass will be an unneeded and dispensable luxury for all of us whose governments have the biggest guns and airplanes but who don't have the oil/water/whatever commodity or resource within our borders.

Edited October 19, 2008 by Pacific State

[Alibear]

It's survival of the fitness - morality and fairness does not figure in these equations.

As much as I opposed the Iraq war, for example, as much as it offended my sense of decency, the question in the UK we all need to ask is would we prefer them to control the oil or would we rather control it.

If peak oil is true, and I see no really compelling reason to doubt it, a moral compass will be an unneeded and dispensable luxury for all of us whose governments have the biggest guns and airplanes but who don't have the oil/water/whatever commodity or resource within our borders.

Morality and fairness does not figure in these equations, but it must "appear" to figure.

The use of military might to secure a moral victory/objective will be used, and then apply some sort of "fairness" afterwards.

[Sheer Heart Attack]

Morality and fairness does not figure in these equations, but it must "appear" to figure.

The use of military might to secure a moral victory/objective will be used, and then apply some sort of "fairness" afterwards.

Well said. 100% agreed.

It's such a pity we're on the "same side". What a poor choice of sides to choose from.

[Guest Steve Cook]

It's survival of the fitness - morality and fairness does not figure in these equations.

As much as I opposed the Iraq war, for example, as much as it offended my sense of decency, the question in the UK we all need to ask is would we prefer them to control the oil or would we rather control it.

If peak oil is true, and I see no really compelling reason to doubt it, a moral compass will be an unneeded and dispensable luxury for all of us whose governments have the biggest guns and airplanes but who don't have the oil/water/whatever commodity or resource within our borders.

yes.

If my lights go out, if my kid starves....

Or, far away, some else's lights go out, someone else's kid starves

Unfortunately, it's a no-brainer

Of course, I wish that the world were not the cruel, unjust and broken place that is undoubtably is, thus forcing these choices on me

However, my wish is unlikely to be realised

Edited October 19, 2008 by Steve Cook

[Guest Steve Cook]

Morality and fairness does not figure in these equations, but it must "appear" to figure.

The use of military might to secure a moral victory/objective will be used, and then apply some sort of "fairness" afterwards.

yes

[GregG]

"We come to it at last, the Great Battle of Our Time" - Gandalf, The Return of the King. JRR Tokein

My prediction is that we will very soon find out whether there is a God who cares about mankind and guides our destiny according to His will and will therefore hinder mankind destroying several billion of people for political and economic reasons - or not.

It also appears to me that we have reached the point in history where a God as described in classical Christian thinking must intervene in some very direct way if indeed that God exists. Between modern warfare, controlling/tracking technologies, human cloning and genetic manipulation and other advances it would appear to me that a classically understood Godhead as understood by philosophers and theologians for 2000-3000, in every advancing western society, will soon be rendered a complete myth since a key characteristic of that Godhead is that He is promximate and involved, not distant, uncaring and aloof.

That leaves us with neo-paganism, utilitarianism and survival of the fittest. "The age of men is over, the time of the Ork has come".

[Guest Steve Cook]

"We come to it at last, the Great Battle of Our Time" - Gandalf, The Return of the King. JRR Tokein

My prediction is that we will very soon find out whether there is a God who cares about mankind and guides our destiny according to His will and will therefore hinder mankind destroying several billion of people for political and economic reasons - or not.

It also appears to me that we have reached the point in history where a God as described in classical Christian thinking must intervene in some very direct way if indeed that God exists. Between modern warfare, controlling/tracking technologies, human cloning and genetic manipulation and other advances it would appear to me that a classically understood Godhead as understood by philosophers and theologians for 2000-3000, in every advancing western society, will soon be rendered a complete myth since a key characteristic of that Godhead is that He is promximate and involved, not distant, uncaring and aloof.

That leaves us with neo-paganism, utilitarianism and survival of the fittest. "The age of men is over, the time of the Ork has come".

ok mate

[Guest mattsta1964]

OK, I'm probably going to regret asking this, but would someone explain what this NWO is? Putting "New World Order" into Google produced 5.3 million hits, starting with a wikipedia history of Woodrow Wilson & the League of Nations, but I suspect this isn't what's being referred to. I don't want to have to trawl the posts if avoidable, can someone sane give me the two-sentence summary? We aren't with bloody Nostradamus, are we?

You have a lot of reading to do and a lot of YouTube and Google vides to watch!

In a nutshell, we have immensely powerful corporate cartels of industrials and bankers controlling all the world's most valuable resources.

Particularly OIL (Rockerfeller's Standard Oil, Rothchild's Anglo-Dutch Shell, BP Exon Mobil and a few others).

And MONEY SUPPLY. Central banks are private corporations and they manipulate money supply to affect changes in national economic to their advantage.

They have just totally asset stripped Iceland for example.......which was 10 years ago the wealthiest country per capita on the planet.

That's an example of what they are capapble of.

The Iraq war is another.

Happy reading

[Guest mattsta1964]

It's survival of the fitness - morality and fairness does not figure in these equations.

As much as I opposed the Iraq war, for example, as much as it offended my sense of decency, the question in the UK we all need to ask is would we prefer them to control the oil or would we rather control it.

If peak oil is true, and I see no really compelling reason to doubt it, a moral compass will be an unneeded and dispensable luxury for all of us whose governments have the biggest guns and airplanes but who don't have the oil/water/whatever commodity or resource within our borders.

Peak oil isn't true.

There are oilfields under Alaska at least as great as the entire reserves of Saudi Arabia.

They wont pump a single barrel because it would collapse the petrodollar.

All the infrastructure to suck it out of the ground is already built. It's been there for ages.

Why do you think Sarah Palin is running as McCain's sidekick? It's because McCain wants to pump that oil. He'll use military means to protect the dollar.

[cartimandua51]

n a nutshell, we have immensely powerful corporate cartels of industrials and bankers controlling all the world's most valuable resources.

Particularly OIL (Rockerfeller's Standard Oil, Rothchild's Anglo-Dutch Shell, BP Exon Mobil and a few others).

And MONEY SUPPLY. Central banks are private corporations and they manipulate money supply to affect changes in national economic to their advantage.

They have just totally asset stripped Iceland for example.......which was 10 years ago the wealthiest country per capita on the planet.

That's an example of what they are capapble of.

Are we talking about something that just is immensely powerful, the human equivalent of a hurricane, or are we talking about an International Conspiracy of Jews/Freemasons/Opus Dei or whoever who have A Cunning Plan to er. do what ultimately, apart from get even more powerful??

Edited October 19, 2008 by cartimandua51

[Guest mattsta1964]

n a nutshell, we have immensely powerful corporate cartels of industrials and bankers controlling all the world's most valuable resources.

Particularly OIL (Rockerfeller's Standard Oil, Rothchild's Anglo-Dutch Shell, BP Exon Mobil and a few others).

And MONEY SUPPLY. Central banks are private corporations and they manipulate money supply to affect changes in national economic to their advantage.

They have just totally asset stripped Iceland for example.......which was 10 years ago the wealthiest country per capita on the planet.

That's an example of what they are capapble of.

Are we talking about something that just is immensely powerful, the human equivalent of a hurricane, or are we talking about an International Conspiracy of Jews/Freemasons/Opus Dei or whoever who have A Cunning Plan to er. do what ultimately, apart from get even more powerful??

Both.

The Jewish/Zionist connection is unfortunate. I'm jewish too.........just before the accustions of anti-semitsm start.

Lord Rothschild paid for the Knesset, the building which houses the Israeli parliament.

Edited October 19, 2008 by mattsta1964