Gordons First Budget

[VeryMeanReversion]

Just a reminder of our illustrious leaders first budget speech in 1997 regarding housing:

http://archive.treasury.gov.uk/pub/html/budget97/speech.html

I don't think he'll get my vote.

VMR.

Housing market measures

For most people the acquisition of a house is the biggest single investment they will make. Homeowners rightly expect their investment to be protected by sensible policies pursued by Government.

I am determined that as a country we never return to the instability, speculation, and negative equity that characterised the housing market in the 1980s and 1990s.

Volatility is damaging both to the housing market and to the economy as a whole.

So stability will be central to our policy to help homeowners. And we must be prepared to take the action necessary to secure it.

I will not allow house prices to get out of control and put at risk the sustainability of the recovery.

I have therefore decided it is right to take two measures aimed at stability in the housing market.

First I will raise stamp duty from 1 per cent to 1.5 per cent on property sales above £250,000 and to 2 per cent for property sales above £500,000. This will take immediate effect after the Budget resolution has been voted by the House.

Second, continuing the reforms begun by the previous Government which removed mortgage tax relief at the higher rate of 40 per cent in 1991, and cut it to 15 per cent by 1995, I propose to reduce mortgage tax relief by a further 5 per cent from 15 per cent to 10 per cent from April 1998.

The timing of my measure should help to avoid a return to the conditions of the 1980s where the failure to take early action guaranteed worse problems later on.

I believe these measures will help to ensure a more balanced recovery.

[Leonard Hatred]

I am determined that as a country we never return to the instability, speculation, and negative equity that characterised the housing market in the 1980s and 1990s.

There you are, idiots of Britain. There are his words and they're in Plain English.

See also The Labour Party's Manifesto 1997:

We will reject the boom and bust policies which caused the collapse of the housing market.

[Prescience]

Eleven years ago?

Far too long ago for the Great Unwashed to remember!

And as for TV commentators and interviewers, in a half-decent world and if they were doing their jobs properly, then every time he appeared on TV they'd be beating the ba$tard over the head with this and making the $od squirm!

Too much to expect: after all, it's not any where so much fun as grovelling around Celebs, is it?

[davidg]

And as for TV commentators and interviewers, in a half-decent world and if they were doing their jobs properly, then every time he appeared on TV they'd be beating the ba$tard over the head with this and making the $od squirm!

they probably would but old Macavity the mystery prime minister never goes on TV - well apart from the Andrew Marred show.

[dark passenger]

Eleven years ago?

Far too long ago for the Great Unwashed to remember!

And as for TV commentators and interviewers, in a half-decent world and if they were doing their jobs properly, then every time he appeared on TV they'd be beating the ba$tard over the head with this and making the $od squirm!

Too much to expect: after all, it's not any where so much fun as grovelling around Celebs, is it?

But then they'd soon find there dirty little secrets being aired in public. Am I the only person that thinks the monstering of Fern Britton as Gordons dabs all over it.

[Bloo Loo]

Pin it MODS- on the front page, the middle page and every page.

[Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable]

I think he's done a remarkably good job.

[Bloo Loo]

Yes, he was remarkably sensible in that budget.

What happened?

Was it that Tony Bliar wanted a feelgood economy based on debt? Is this the source of friction between the two men? Was Broon finally persuaded?

Why doesnt Broon Spill?

[Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable]

Yes, he was remarkably sensible in that budget.

What happened?

Was it that Tony Bliar wanted a feelgood economy based on debt? Is this the source of friction between the two men? Was Broon finally persuaded?

Why doesnt Broon Spill?

From the reduction in media hysteria and propaganda since Blair's departure, I'd say Blair simply manipulated the World stage with the blessing of the Yanks in order to secure his financial kickbacks at the expense of the country. I think he exited as planned before having to face the music.

On another note, there's a program on Radio 4 today about Trofim Lysenko, Stalin's darling agriculture minister who caused starvation in Russia in the 30s and 40s by expounding nonsense in the name of science and had opposition killed or discredited. It's all about creating political, pseudo-scientific and economic frameworks which attempt to defy natural order with the hubris of man.

Edited June 5, 2008 by DissipatedYouthIsValuable

[VeryMeanReversion]

>Homeowners rightly expect their investment to be protected by sensible policies pursued by Government

I wonder if that's still government policy.

People still say "The government won't let it happen" regarding a crash and they have reasons to say that since that is government policy.

However, it's just been the market (lenders+buyers) that have caused the housing boom and bust. Government policies were irrelevant, no credit but also no blame (not a popular opinion on this site)

It took me a while to realise the the MPC never really set rates, they just followed 3-month Libor. When they tried to control rates last year, Libor just carried on its own way.

You can't beat the market. The lenders have curtailed lending and the buyers have gone on strike. That's the market speaking and the sellers have to price accordingly.

VMR.

[insidetrack]

But then they'd soon find there dirty little secrets being aired in public. Am I the only person that thinks the monstering of Fern Britton as Gordons dabs all over it.

As with all inadequate control freaks Gordon Brown is very petty and very vindictive. I imagine he got the spooks to make Fern public enemy No 1 the minute he walked out of the This Morning studio.

[Sledgehead]

Yes, he was remarkably sensible in that budget.

What happened?

Don't forget that he also:

Imposed a tax on the privatised utilities;

Revoked the pensions tax credit, costing pension pots £5bn pa;

Imposed massive red-tape costs on industry;

Imposed multi-billion levies on the telecoms industry for nothing more expensive than air;

"Borrowed" off-balance sheet from our future through PPI, effectively reducing the supply of gilts and, therefore, annuity rates.

This made investment in pensions (and therefore UK plc) far less attractive, setting off a vicious circle of weakness in UK equities.

Why is that important?

Quite simply, the move from pensions to property as a pension created much of our debt explosion. People had been saving for their retirement for years, blissfully unaware of how rich they were. The minute they put their capital (and debt) in property, they began to see just how wealthy they might be. The result was a spending of these future profits accompanied bt "reinvestment", which onlt served to compound the sense of wealth and eventual spending. The result is the pile of debt we now have.

By contrast, people talk of being unable to afford a pension, as if it were a car or some other cost. And more crucially, you will NEVER hear talk of people borrowing against their pension.

[right_freds_dead]

does it matter what he said, as long as you remember the tories are having their 1997 now,

with all the promises and trimmings and yes mans to solve a problem they dont even understand in the first place.

politicians think to resolve the house crisis is to try to make the inflation of house prices to continue for longer.

plot - lost.

[shindigger]

Eleven years ago?

Far too long ago for the Great Unwashed to remember!

And as for TV commentators and interviewers, in a half-decent world and if they were doing their jobs properly, then every time he appeared on TV they'd be beating the ba$tard over the head with this and making the $od squirm!

Too much to expect: after all, it's not any where so much fun as grovelling around Celebs, is it?

Get Fern on to it.

Shes the only one up to task.

[right_freds_dead]

george osbourne - the shadow chancellor has ALREADY received donations from some large hedge funds.

PATHETIC !!

all i can say to the uk press and media, is YES you can ride this turkey and line your own pockets, and possibly those of your children.

but at some point this corruption will destroy this country. perhaps your grandchildren will be paying the price of your lack of attack.

Edited June 5, 2008 by right_freds_dead

[VeryMeanReversion]

By contrast, people talk of being unable to afford a pension, as if it were a car or some other cost. And more crucially, you will NEVER hear talk of people borrowing against their pension.

It's happening in the US where 401K pension schemes can be cashed in with a huge tax penalty.

I'm lending my pension money at the moment whilst renting. When I buy, I'll stop paying in to clear the mortgage asap then resume the pension after that.

VMR.

[Sledgehead]

It's happening in the US where 401K pension schemes can be cashed in with a huge tax penalty.

I'm lending my pension money at the moment whilst renting. When I buy, I'll stop paying in to clear the mortgage asap then resume the pension after that.

VMR.

But that is clearly not the same as borrowing against you pension. Once cashed in it's no longer a pension!

[Bloo Loo]

But that is clearly not the same as borrowing against you pension. Once cashed in it's no longer a pension!

Thanks for pointing out all the other items, stealth taxation and stealth spending have been the hallmarks of this lot.

As for pensions, when I got my first mortgage, one of the options was for an IO with either a lo-cost endowment, or a pension vehicle, the idear was that you could put more into the pension, what with tax releif, and come the end of the mortgage, youd cash part of it in and the rest was your pension. That was circa 1981

Edited June 5, 2008 by Bloo Loo