Edinbugh Latest

[Deleriad]

Curiosly, both of these large reductions are with the same Solicitor. It strikes me as significant, but I have no idea why! Any ideas.

Could be one particular solicitor advising clients to "get ahead of the curve." The first one might be a typo though; every now and then someone mistypes offers over for fixed price on the website so it'll be worth watching.

Lot of sellers still seem to think that they can expect a 15% premium on offers over so this *might* be a reality check. Still very rare to see a property going from OO to a smaller value of FP. If the listing is correct then the seller may have expected bids around 225K when they put it on the market sometime before July so dropping to 180 is a major fall.

As far as I can tell, the market's peak in Edinburgh was around Q2 2008. ( I saw a 2 bed lower flat in Portobello needing work on the market at offers over 245 that sold for 305K in April 2008.)

As I've said, I'm new here so don't take any of my opinions as particularly informed.

[meltsheep]

A bit of a sh1tty comment Bjorn, roblpm's contribution to the Edinburgh's sub forum is without question. His justification for comparing outright purchase price to rental price (therefore giving yield) is a valid metric. With the combination of falling IR's and falling property prices, current low rental yields may start to look more attractive. Do you think seasoned BTLer's have dissapeared forever?

In this environment, property is about as attractive as a horse with a hard-on, but it wont be forever.

He's right. A freind of mine started BTL in 1997 (and stopped soon after) and yields were 10% plus in London. It was a very attractive proposition. Now I guess they are hovering around 5-6% there. In Edinburgh it seems that yields are less that 4%. Property here has a very long way to fall before it becomes attractive.

[meltsheep]

I agree, near the parliament, arthurs seat, and the royal mile. Interesting to see what it goes for.

The repossession are coming....

I live very close by in a new development off the Canongate. They flats here are not shifting for love nor money. Silly fools paid over 250k for ungenerous 2 beds. They rent for 750-800. Gross yield of 3.8% not taking into account falling capital value.

EH8 8E is the postcode.

[blobby o mr blobby]

A couple of encouraging signs that vendors are coming out of denial:-

West End one bed flat on the market since at least July this year, was on at Offers Over £195,000 (yes, really!), now on at Fixed Price £180,000

http://www.espc.co.uk/Buying/257722.html

Nethouseprices shows that it sold for £161,000 in 2004

Another West End 'Mews House' (more like a large shed or medium garage) , again on offer since at least July, originally at Offers Over £198,000, now on at Fixed Price £190,000

http://www.espc.co.uk/Buying/257759.html

Nethouseprices shows that it sold for £190,000 in 2006 (at least I think it's this one http://www.nethouseprices.com/scot_detail....row_id=1436774)

Curiosly, both of these large reductions are with the same Solicitor. It strikes me as significant, but I have no idea why! Any ideas?

The original asking prices, particularly for the garage with a kitchen

Nice to see reductions but they still look over priced by at least 50% some of the recent new builds selling at auction look better value for money in Edinburgh.

Anyone heard any news re: Heritors, they seem to be sticking to their high asking prices?

[Scunnered]

Anyone heard any news re: Heritors, they seem to be sticking to their high asking prices?

If you didn't see it, the Scotsman had this a week or so ago: Slump hits Heritor's upmarket property development arm

THE development arm of upmarket property firm Heritor's has fallen into administration after months of battling against the credit crunch and the downturn in the property market.

One of the readers says

Seems its all gone free fall, Friday saw 21 of Heritors property holding companies go into administration.

Tasty!

EDIT: I see you've already posted on this subject. It's only about a week since they went into administration, so I guess it'll take the administrators a while to work out what's going on and try to dispose of the assets. We might see some action after Christmas.

Edited December 5, 2008 by Scunnered

[TTD]

"I live very close by in a new development off the Canongate. They flats here are not shifting for love nor money. Silly fools paid over 250k for ungenerous 2 beds."

I looked at the Applecross website the other day, they have a new dev on Milton Road; their 1-bed flats are priced at £175k, their 2-beds at £250k ...... and they don't look huge.

[blobby o mr blobby]

EDIT: I see you've already posted on this subject. It's only about a week since they went into administration, so I guess it'll take the administrators a while to work out what's going on and try to dispose of the assets. We might see some action after Christmas.

I guess the longer they Feck about, the better it will be for anyone trying to buy.

Edited December 6, 2008 by blobby o mr blobby

[Scunnered]

Something else to cheer us up. Evening News: Property start-ups finished.

HUNDREDS of newly-created property firms in the Capital are at severe risk of going out of business as the recession takes hold, experts warned today.

Nearly 400 firms that were launched in Edinburgh in 2007 to take advantage of the then-booming housing sector are seen to be at risk of collapse.

It turns out that they're talking about "property-related businesses looking to cash in on the market, such as letting agents, construction firms, developers, plumbers, joiners and painters", so it's not just developers. Still, that's a lot of businesses.

Edited December 6, 2008 by Scunnered

[Guest An Bearin Bui]

Something else to cheer us up. Evening News: Property start-ups finished.

It turns out that they're talking about "property-related businesses looking to cash in on the market, such as letting agents, construction firms, developers, plumbers, joiners and painters", so it's not just developers. Still, that's a lot of businesses.

Good riddance to them - let's hope the "entrepreneurs" involved decide to learn some real skills (tradesmen businesses excepted as they're already usefully skilled) and go on to make money out of real, productive businesses instead of just trying to cash in on a one-off debt-fuelled housing bubble.

[itsdave]

Could be one particular solicitor advising clients to "get ahead of the curve." The first one might be a typo though; every now and then someone mistypes offers over for fixed price on the website so it'll be worth watching.

I thought it might be a typo as well, but the new fixed price is on the schedule as well so it must be a genuine price drop. Good news .

Lot of sellers still seem to think that they can expect a 15% premium on offers over so this *might* be a reality check. Still very rare to see a property going from OO to a smaller value of FP. If the listing is correct then the seller may have expected bids around 225K when they put it on the market sometime before July so dropping to 180 is a major fall.

Indeed. Speaking to a girl at work considering putting her own flat on the market Q1 next year and she still doesn't realise just how static the market is, and expects bids to be 20% or more over 'offers over' price. My words of caution are falling on deaf ears!

As I've said, I'm new here so don't take any of my opinions as particularly informed.

Welcome !

"I live very close by in a new development off the Canongate. They flats here are not shifting for love nor money. Silly fools paid over 250k for ungenerous 2 beds."

I looked at the Applecross website the other day, they have a new dev on Milton Road; their 1-bed flats are priced at £175k, their 2-beds at £250k ...... and they don't look huge.

Speaking of newbuilds, I'm keeping my eye on http://www.qmile.com ; a huge development (conversion and newbuild) where even the most tiny sub 500 square foot one bed flats are being marketed at £230,000. Will be interested to see how desparate Gladedale Homes become to shift these. I can't see anyone buying into their marketing hype in the current market conditions (but perhaps I'm guilty of being a little naive).

[blobby o mr blobby]

Speaking of newbuilds, I'm keeping my eye on http://www.qmile.com ; a huge development (conversion and newbuild) where even the most tiny sub 500 square foot one bed flats are being marketed at £230,000. Will be interested to see how desparate Gladedale Homes become to shift these. I can't see anyone buying into their marketing hype in the current market conditions (but perhaps I'm guilty of being a little naive).

Wow, I would be seriously gutted if I forked out for one of these off plan. £ 875,000 for a 3 bed without a proper kitchen and small rooms. You could buy a stone built townhouse in a nice part of Glasgow or Edinburgh for that!

[meltsheep]

Speaking of newbuilds, I'm keeping my eye on http://www.qmile.com ; a huge development (conversion and newbuild) where even the most tiny sub 500 square foot one bed flats are being marketed at £230,000. Will be interested to see how desparate Gladedale Homes become to shift these. I can't see anyone buying into their marketing hype in the current market conditions (but perhaps I'm guilty of being a little naive).

Who wants to live in those horrible old Victorian infirmary buildings ? I am struggling to understand why the whole place wasn't just pulled down. Coincidently Carry on Doctor in on Channel 4. 250 for a 1 bed. Yeah right. Rettie let some of the development to corporates and charge about 50% over the going rental rate for living there! Edinburgh can get very snooty about things. Why are St Vincent St new builds so expensive to rent ! We are talking 2k/month for a 2 bed flat !! Its not Covent Garden.

[meltsheep]

Look at this one

http://www.qmile.com/component/option,com_...,104/Itemid,36/

They want over 400k for 800 sq ft (if that). Lunacy.

[Muswell Hillbilly]

Speaking of newbuilds, I'm keeping my eye on http://www.qmile.com ; a huge development (conversion and newbuild) where even the most tiny sub 500 square foot one bed flats are being marketed at £230,000. … Who wants to live in those horrible old Victorian infirmary buildings ?

Personally I’d much rather live in one of those solid, elegant and well-proportioned Victorian infirmary buildings than in one of the hideous glass-and-prefab-panel blocks that are being squashed in next to them.

But whatever one’s taste in architecture, the Quartermile development is unbelievably overpriced, and is finally hitting the market at a very bad time. Have you seen the asking prices for rentals there? Search for EH3 on citylets.co.uk or lettingweb.com, and list the results in descending order of price. You’ll spot Simpson Loan near the top of the list. There is currently a three-bed flat in one of the converted hospital buildings for £2950 per month, and a two-bed penthouse in one of the glass blocks, also for £2950 per month. There is another three-bed flat in a new block which seems almost reasonable at £1700 per month!

This one is a bargain at £1350 for two bedrooms. It’s on the second floor above Sainsbury’s, so don’t expect much privacy!

With the financial sector going down the pan, who on earth is going to rent properties like these in Edinburgh?

I’m expecting (hoping?) that Quartermile flats will crash and burn in style during the coming months.

[Edited to add the paragraph about the £1350 flat]

Edited December 6, 2008 by Muswell Hillbilly

[geed]

Personally I’d much rather live in one of those solid, elegant and well-proportioned Victorian infirmary buildings than in one of the hideous glass-and-prefab-panel blocks that are being squashed in next to them.

But whatever one’s taste in architecture, the Quartermile development is unbelievably overpriced, and is finally hitting the market at a very bad time. Have you seen the asking prices for rentals there? Search for EH3 on citylets.co.uk or lettingweb.com, and list the results in descending order of price. You’ll spot Simpson Loan near the top of the list. There is currently a three-bed flat in one of the converted hospital buildings for £2950 per month, and a two-bed penthouse in one of the glass blocks, also for £2950 per month. There is another three-bed flat in a new block which seems almost reasonable at £1700 per month!

This one is a bargain at £1350 for two bedrooms. It’s on the second floor above Sainsbury’s, so don’t expect much privacy!

With the financial sector going down the pan, who on earth is going to rent properties like these in Edinburgh?

I’m expecting (hoping?) that Quartermile flats will crash and burn in style during the coming months.

[Edited to add the paragraph about the £1350 flat]

Astounding prices.

If I have a spare day next week I may go and waste some dumbf**k salesmans day and take a look around. I will make sure I am eating a packet of crisps and drinking coffee whilst walking around. When he announces his dreamy prices - be it rental or purchase - I will make sure I cough out my half digested crisps on their designer foton. If I make it to another flat "sorry spartment darling" for a viewing, my triple mocchachino shall be spat out like fountain on announcement of it's percieved value.

I am looking forward to my day off this week

I have knowledge of a few of Edinburgh's wealthy suffering from the current property crash, I dont want to say too much but it is outrageous that even those that I perceived to be the more prudent (I love that word, do you think that its description will be re-written in the Oxford Dictionary as a result of brooown!) have had their arses stung by partaking in the giddy heights of the recent property boom. $100K paper losses on a £400k flat. ouch!!

Apparently "its a good time to buy". Blind Denial!

Edited December 7, 2008 by geed

[Guest An Bearin Bui]

Wow, I would be seriously gutted if I forked out for one of these off plan. £ 875,000 for a 3 bed without a proper kitchen and small rooms. You could buy a stone built townhouse in a nice part of Glasgow or Edinburgh for that!

Ah, Quartermile! I'm very sure this development will come to be seen as a symbol of the madness of Edinburgh's property bubble in years to come. One half of that development is a terrible waste of some beautiful Victorian architecture and the other half just looks like a multi-storey car park complete with built-in supermarket yet they're asking London (and posh London at that) prices.

I know someone who worked in one of the building services firms hired to work on Quartermile and she said that they had to raise concerns with the architects at one point because they realised that on the current designs anyone over 5'10" would not be able to stand upright in the bathroom as the ceilings were too low. I don't believe their advice was heeded. So there you are, a go-getting hotshot young gun working in Edinburgh's booming financial services sector*: you've just paid £400k to partake of some executive, high-end city living and you can't even stand up to pee in your very expensive toilet...

* This is way back in the other world that was 2007, of course...

[eejit]

Ah, Quartermile! I'm very sure this development will come to be seen as a symbol of the madness of Edinburgh's property bubble in years to come. One half of that development is a terrible waste of some beautiful Victorian architecture and the other half just looks like a multi-storey car park complete with built-in supermarket yet they're asking London (and posh London at that) prices.

I know someone who worked in one of the building services firms hired to work on Quartermile and she said that they had to raise concerns with the architects at one point because they realised that on the current designs anyone over 5'10" would not be able to stand upright in the bathroom as the ceilings were too low. I don't believe their advice was heeded. So there you are, a go-getting hotshot young gun working in Edinburgh's booming financial services sector*: you've just paid £400k to partake of some executive, high-end city living and you can't even stand up to pee in your very expensive toilet...

* This is way back in the other world that was 2007, of course...

i went in to visit the sales room (i was interested as i used to work at the hospital) about 2 years ago ( give or take) it was implied that alot of the properties were being bought of plan from "asian" investors.

i thought the development was a joke ( well the prices were better than a week at the fringe for a laugh), they were not very sympathetic to the old buildings/ architecture, and the new buildings looked like office blocks. my partner who was born in the maternity bit thought it was "a shame" what had happened to it, although i think she meant a crime.

i agree with what has been said before. they are charging London/Manhattan/Singapore prices for Edinburgh (the meadows, where anything in a skirt gets attacked after dusk). Three miles away you can buy a semi detaxhed 3 bed for roughly £130,000, and that is without negotiating.

i think that that feel that if they price them that much then people/fools will think they are worth that much.

[SelfDoIt]

Another example of going from OO to a lower FP.

http://www.espc.com/Buying/271115.html

OO £230K to FP £220K.

I still wouldn't want to live in a maindoor flat, but it looks like people are getting the message.

[Jadoube]

i agree with what has been said before. they are charging London/Manhattan/Singapore prices for Edinburgh (the meadows, where anything in a skirt gets attacked after dusk). Three miles away you can buy a semi detaxhed 3 bed for roughly £130,000, and that is without negotiating.

I grew up in Edinburgh, and am about to move back after over 30 years away. With wife & daughters to consider local opinions like this can be important. How much weight should I put on it? And can people offer any similar thoughts relating to the safety of other areas of Edinburgh?

[TTD]

Would you consider areas just outside the city, in commutable distance, or just the city itself?

[roblpm]

In terms of safety, I should imagine that Morningside where I live now has one of the lowest crime rates of any city suburb in the world?! The local bobby even puts a list of all the crimes in the Neighbourhood watch newsletter and it isnt very long!

My previous 3 abodes were Bermondsey, Camden and Brixton in London. There is no comparison!

[guitarman001]

Would you consider areas just outside the city, in commutable distance, or just the city itself?

Outside of.... the noise and bustle of the city annoys me. I currently live at my parents' in Dalkeith; takes about 40 mins on average to get to Princes Street where my work is.

GIrlfriend lives in Livingston and I think that will boom a bit like Edinburgh in future... maybe... though it's mostly shops tbh. Anyway my point is that property in Livingston is more reasonable than anywhere.

[Muswell Hillbilly]

they are charging London/Manhattan/Singapore prices for Edinburgh (the meadows, where anything in a skirt gets attacked after dusk).

Sorry Eejit, but that’s absolute piffle. The paths across the Meadows are very well lit and a great many people walk across them at all hours. Naturally one should exercise some caution very late at night, but generally speaking crime is low on the Meadows and around Marchmont and Bruntsfield. It’s pointless scaremongering to make a statement like that.

Besides, ‘after dusk’ can be as early as 15.45 in Edinburgh in the winter, and I think you’ll find Middle Meadows Walk is almost as busy as Princes Street at around that time.

I’m posting this mostly for the benefit of Jadoube in response to his question:

I grew up in Edinburgh, and am about to move back after over 30 years away. With wife & daughters to consider local opinions like this can be important. How much weight should I put on it? And can people offer any similar thoughts relating to the safety of other areas of Edinburgh?

[eejit]

Sorry Eejit, but that’s absolute piffle. The paths across the Meadows are very well lit and a great many people walk across them at all hours. Naturally one should exercise some caution very late at night, but generally speaking crime is low on the Meadows and around Marchmont and Bruntsfield. It’s pointless scaremongering to make a statement like that.

Besides, ‘after dusk’ can be as early as 15.45 in Edinburgh in the winter, and I think you’ll find Middle Meadows Walk is almost as busy as Princes Street at around that time.

I’m posting this mostly for the benefit of Jadoube in response to his question:

clearly its not at J-Berg proportions but there has been plenty of attacks reported in the area, so it's therefore not piffle either. i was a student in the area a couple, of years ago, and was advised to avoid the area.

link

more:

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/edinburgh?articleid=4029113

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotland?articleid=4568103

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/edinburghp...able.3296323.jp

edit to add a statsistic from one of the articles:

There has been growing concerns about crime levels in the Meadows in recent years. The total reported crime in the area of Middle Meadow Walk shot up from 68 reported incidents in 2003-4 to 166 in 2006-7. Gangs of youths were blamed for the majority of assaults in the area.

Edited December 8, 2008 by eejit

[ccc]

I grew up in Edinburgh, and am about to move back after over 30 years away. With wife & daughters to consider local opinions like this can be important. How much weight should I put on it? And can people offer any similar thoughts relating to the safety of other areas of Edinburgh?

Depends what you are looking for. I know the North West bit.

If you want somewhere that is about 4 miles from Town. Peaceful and quiet and very little hassle from scumbags you couldn't do much better than Cramond, Barnton or Cammo.

Great access as well. Not bad buses into and out of town. Near lovely walks in Cramond and Cammo, down to the river Almond. Only downside is the planes overhead. But they are only really a factor for some parts. Also there area few wee shops about but nothing great. Couple of nice boozers too but not a huge choice.

If I had a family I can't think of many nicer/safer areas. Hence the prices that are expected. However you can get a reasonable place for not bad money compared to the likes of Murrayfield/Ravelston/Morningside/Colinton etc..

You will get the odd scum bag or group causing hassle but this goes for everywhere in Edinburgh. Rare occurance in the areas mentioned above.

Not sure about the rest of town so I will leave that for others !!

Edited December 8, 2008 by ccc