Protest March To London ?

[Bluelady]

What was wrong with the scores of semi's and detached I showed you around the 150-170k mark? They were hardly what you say is all you can afford!

      If it's not too personal do you mind me asking is your merc yours or a company car?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or does it even exist? There's not much in the way of spelling or grammar to show for ten years' study either.

[ianupton]

What was wrong with the scores of semi's and detached I showed you around the 150-170k mark? They were hardly what you say is all you can afford!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you just dont get it do you ?

why would i pay 5 times what you paid ? why would i ever want to put a £170k chain round my neck like that. id be 65 by the time i paid it off - provided nothing happened to interest rates, my job, health or personal finances.

why dont you buy my old car. i paid £11k for it. you can have it for £66k ?

ive put a laminate floor in it. it has a charming vestibule.

im alright jack is what you sound like.

no wonder this couintry is breaking apart. think of your fellow countrymen.

i dont know you but i suspect you already own your house at half the current cost ??.

[Twig Vase]

this is what i mean. i agree i COULD buy a house in Wigan, but it would be the grottiest, smoked out terrace on a row of chavs and trisha watchers. what was the point of studying for 10 years only to get a box packers dwelling in bingle drinking Punch St, Wigan WN4 ? My mercedes keeps getting vandalised and im not even in wigan yet.

wheres my semi and small garden. my england. my castle. wheres my wife and family. ?

im just being fleeced for £80,000 above what it should be - well im not. im off back to usa. life there might be bland but its better than a damp terrace and kebab papers on my window sill every firday..this charming vestibule with tidy yard to year.

people must be mad to be put down like this. i met some londoners when i was in cornwall and i just felt really sorry for them. 4 up in a town house. 1 room each. all working in decent jobs on good pay. they looked dead in the eyes. no future. no chance of bringing up a family in those conditions. burned out at 30 ? tired of it.

decent people living like orwells road to wigan pier. whats going on ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess my standards are lower than yours because i've just checked on rightmove and there some great properties on rightmove under £160000 in Wigan that don't look like grotty, smoked out terraces, I would be more than happy in them. Seriously where does all your money go?, its not that Mecedes draining your finances is it?Perhaps you should try and see what you are spending all your money on and economise...

[Bluelady]

Follow KOTC's link and have a look at Norley Cottages, Kitts Green on the second page, on at £150k. Lovely house which I'd be more than happy with. If you're expecting something better than that as a FTB, you really are living in cloud cuckoo land.

[ianupton]

Follow KOTC's link and have a look at Norley Cottages, Kitts Green on the second page, on at £150k.  Lovely house which I'd be more than happy with.  If you're expecting something better than that as a FTB, you really are living in cloud cuckoo land.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

BLUELADY:

im expecting fairness and equality. my taxes are equal and my lifestyle not blingy. spelling not so good, but pettiness aside, i see the older generation fleecing the younger.

do you think they will be grateful when your all 70 and they couldnt leave home until they were 50?

other generations passed on the housing stock to you at no profit.

yours is the generation thats fleeced its brothers.

now you think just because you live in a house it should earn you £20k per year

its the ftbs that have to carry your credit can. someone pays the bill. they wont forget.

you will retire in extreme bare and basic care and you know what. no one will care.

you rubiks cube goldrushers all make me sick with your mod music and blondie albums and house price hogging.

[Mr Tickle]

I know where you are coming from ianupton, I've just sold my house and I wouldn't spend 160K on one either!

In 1999 I nearly bought a 1950sq ft house in 'THE' prime location for 165K ...... now look what you get, nothing wrong with them except the price!

I could nip down Asda and offer them 160K for a tin of economy beans ..... they'd take the money no doubt, but would I be getting value ??

i.e its not the ABILITY to buy the prop its being WILLING to get ripped off :angry:

[King of the castle]

you just dont get it do you ?

why would i pay 5 times what you paid ? why would i ever want to put a £170k chain round my neck like that. id be 65 by the time i paid it off - provided nothing happened to interest rates, my job, health or personal finances.

But you don't need to borrow 5 x income. I've shown you , you can buy a large detached for 160k, with a 10% deposit you're around the 3.5x income. This would cost you £851 pcm @ 5% fix (repayment) you're on 40k + this is almost a weeks gross wage, what is your problem? You say you don't want to end a mortgage when you're 65, so I can only but assume you're 40 now, I'm sorry to ask this but it does beg to be asked, what on aerth have you done with your life for the last 20 years?

You speak as though home ownership isn't your thing (chain round neck etc), which is fair enough, however life is about choices, if you choose not to own, then the consequences of not doing so are really yours and yours alone, stop looking for others to blame.

why dont you buy my old car. i paid £11k for it. you can have it for £66k ?

ive put a laminate floor in it. it has a charming vestibule.

Very funny, however not very clever.

Why someone would spend 11k on a car rather than get themselves on the property ladder is beyond me. Sacrifices need to be made when you're young in order to get on in life, You could have quite easily spent that money on a deposit for a then much cheaper house, but once again, you chose to spend the money on a car instead. I might come across as a 'I'm alright Jack' type to you, however perhaps I've earned that right......I made the sacrifices! and you've got a merc now,but let me guess you struggle to find the deposit! words fail me.

When we get down to it (cutting through the chaff) we can see that it's not that you can't afford a new house, it's just that you don't want to pay the affordable price (to you), and you choose to spend your spare money on luxuries as a priority.

Perhaps it is you that should think about his fellow country men, you know the ones who genuinely can't a house. You know the 'key workers' in London say, docs, nurses, coppers, fireman etc, and stop being so selfish and petty.

For the record, my latest personal house was purchased last april.Unlike you I don't have a problem paying for something that I can both afford and wish to own.

[sarcasm] I do have my sights set on owning Edinburgh castle, but why should I have to pay £50 million for it? It's a disgrace! I can afford no more than my current home, but they won't entertain my relatively measly offers. absolute scandal I tell you.

Perhaps I'll be joining you in that march after all? [/sarcasm]

KOTC.

[King of the castle]

i.e its not the ABILITY to buy the prop its being WILLING to get ripped off  :angry:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Since when has 3.5 X income been ripping people off?

Historically this is what P/E has always been. If anything if you think about it this guy is in a great position because he would be on 3.5% x income and have the added advantage of historically low IR's to pay his debt.

I do appreciate this chap is on above average income, but it is him specifically we are talking about.

[Mr Tickle]

Since when has 3.5 X income been ripping people off?

            Historically this is what P/E has always been. If anything if you think about it this guy is in a great position because he would be on 3.5% x income and have the added advantage of historically low IR's to pay his debt.

          I do appreciate this chap is on above average income, but it is him specifically we are talking about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I understand your point of view with regards to the ratio of income, however his point and mine is that he should be getting more house for his money.Simple as.

The three beds that you've linked to look nice, similar to the one I've just flogged in fact, however I view these as a 'average house' indeed they were 10 years ago, about 60K.Allowing for inflation etc, or indeed if one should want to purchase one on an average wage of say 25K, they surely can't be worth more than 100K.

Its not that he can't physically afford it, if this was the case prices would keep going up and till the city high flyers could only afford a hole of a terraced house, in some hideous cr*phole town.But it would be ok because they would have to make a sacrifice, therefore that would justify it.

Sorry but that argumant just isn't logical.

[ianupton]

Since when has 3.5 X income been ripping people off?

            Historically this is what P/E has always been. If anything if you think about it this guy is in a great position because he would be on 3.5% x income and have the added advantage of historically low IR's to pay his debt.

           I do appreciate this chap is on above average income, but it is him specifically we are talking about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

if im on more than the average income why do i feel i cant afford an £800 pcm payment. i could. but then they also want £8,000 cash for a deposit.

now seeing as you all are up to your eyeballs in debt do any of you 'home owners' have £8,000 cash - in REAL money that is. probably not.

did any of you have to squeeze out 1/4 of you net annual income for a deposit on your FIRST house. probably not.

stop encouraging me to buy into this madness to secure your own necks. youve led yourselves astray and im sitting tight waiting for the fireworks. if it gets too hot. with my cash i will go to barbados and program from there. no sweat to me. i just came back from 8 yrs in usa with a dream of a small and CHEAP 2 bed house and a nice chilled out SMALL garden.

i dont want to get nailed down to £170k for my first. you didnt. your crazy and this will all end in tears. simple maths.

earnings inflation 3% PA

housing inflation 18% PA

im not talking genius here. a child could work out the point of collapse. my concerns are that a partial collapse of society will also follow. your creating a lot of anger and frustraition and a no future situation for the under 30s

this is the underlying cause of binge drinking. these people do not actually have "homes to go to"

they just dont know thats why they drink and are angry. when the penny drops your all going to get some aggro. if you have it and they cant - then they will smash it up so you cant either. all will have or all will havent. they wont put up with it.

tear down the hyped vestibules and demand back the council stock. paticipate in anti etate agent action. make lots of veiwings. offer really low (realistic) prices. waste etate agency time. do not buy.

head to london. downing st. 12th march.

fight now or pay later. create some chaos. make some noise.

[Bluelady]

Actually I had to find more than 25% of my annual salary as the deposit on my first house. I was earning £21k and my first house was £70k, my deposit was £7k (a third of my annual, pretax income) and I also had to find solicitors fees, stamp duty and removal costs on top of that. And it cost just under 3.5 times my annual income, I'd say that was exactly the same situation as buying a £160k house now on a salary of £40k. Or is my maths getting worse?

Incidentally, interest rates were in double figures at that time and my repayments were over £600 a month.

[Mr Tickle]

So if I earn't 50K a year and I bought a mobile home for 170K, that would be OK, because I could physically afford it ?

[ianupton]

Actually I had to find more than 25% of my annual salary as the deposit on my first house.  I was earning £21k and my first house was £70k, my deposit was £7k (a third of my annual, pretax income) and I also had to find solicitors fees, stamp duty and removal costs on top of that.  And it cost just under 3.5 times my annual income, I'd say that was exactly the same situation as buying a £160k house now on a salary of £40k.  Or is my maths getting worse?

Incidentally, interest rates were in double figures at that time and my repayments were over £600 a month.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i would dream of your situation you lucky dog. i bet it was a nice modest new build in a nice town.

would you swap for my choice. 22 Punch in face terrace, wigan W4 3GBH

also dont forget im taxed on 40k more than i was at 24k. your maths seems right, but it still doesnt feel right. my money feels like lira. only good for the trafford centre but nothing balanced in life. its horrible. id rather be a labourer that bought in 94. i wish i hadnt gone to university. i really feel trapped, swindled and foolish. i made an error of judgement. i thought my countrymen liked me and my friends.

i now understand im just a comodity to them.

also unlike you. i think of my brothers. i can just about scrape my face of the terrace with the laminate floors, but what about my brother the postman, policeman or shop worker whos on say 16k ?

what about them. dont they count at all ?

[Bluelady]

So if I earn't 50K a year and I bought a mobile home for 170K, that would be OK, because I could physically afford it ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You lot really do need to get your arguements straight. This thread started with the unaffordability of buying in Wigan on £40k a year. It's been amply demonstrated that on that income, you could actually buy a very nice house in or around Wigan on a conservative 3.5 x income mortgage with a £10k deposit. Which is affordable by anyone's standards.

Unaffordability is people living in London and other expensive parts of the country on average incomes who haven't a snowball's chance in hell of buying anywhere at the moment. They're the people who I consider deserve my sympathy, not people who can afford to buy but, for whatever reason, won't because they have delusions of grandeur.

[King of the castle]

if im on more than the average income why do i fel i cant afford an £800 pcm payment. i could. but then they also want £8,000 cash for a deposit.

because you spend your money on luxuries as a priority over a first home.

no seeing as you all are on credit up to your eyeballs. do any of you 'home owners' have £8,000 cash - in REAL money that is.

probably not.

did any of you have to squeeze out 1/4 of you net annual income for a deposit on your FIRST house.

You're 40 years old, of course you should have savings (especially on 40k p.a) There's loads of ways to buy a house, I actually paid a small deposit for my first house very early on in my life (as I preferred the security/flexibility of my money in the bank) There is more than one way to skin a cat.

stop encouraging me to buy into this madness to secure your own necks. youve led yourselves astray and im sitting tight waiting for the fireworks. if it gets too hot. with my cash i will go to barbados and program from there. no sweat to me. i just came back from 8 yrs in usa with a dream of a small and CHEAP 2 bed house and a nice chilled out SMALL garden.

Whether you buy or not is of no consequence to me, you're also assuming I'm up to my neck in debt, which on a personal consumer level I'm not. Yes you're correct I didn't pay 170k for my first, however nor was I able to get a five year fix @ 5% . try double the interest for size, see how that fits, and nor was the average wage what it is today.

The fact that you all you want is a 2 bed house makes this conversation all the more diabolical. You could afford that on probs 2 x income , never mind 3.5x

burn down the vestibules and take back the council stock.  paticipate in anti etate agent action. make lots of veiwings. offer really low (realistic) prices. waste etate agency time. do not buy.

head to london. downing st. 12th march.

fight now or pay later.

Oh right you're an anarchist, the whole thing is making a bit more sense now. You're after something for nothing.

[Bluelady]

i would dream of your situation you lucky dog. i bet it was a nice modest new build in a nice town.

would you swap for my choice. 22 Punch in face terrace, wigan W4 3GBH

also dont forget im taxed on 40k more than i was at 24k. your maths seems right, but it still doesnt feel right. my money feels like lira. only good for the trafford centre but nothing balanced in life. its horrible. id rather be a labourer that bought in 94. i wish i hadnt gone to university. i really feel trapped, swindled and foolish. i made an error of judgement. i thought my countrymen liked me and my friends.

i now understand im just a comodity to them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No such thing as "nice newbuild in a nice town", it was a 2 bed terraced Victorian house, with considerably more class and style than any new build.

[King of the castle]

also unlike you. i think of my brothers. i can just about scrape my face of the terrace with the laminate floors, but what about my brother the postman, policeman or shop worker whos on say 16k ?

what about them. dont they count at all ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So why are you ranting about yourself being hard pushed @ 3.5x income for a large 3 bed detached?

Why not rant for them if you're so altruistic? The only reason you've brought them up (which I did first) is to try and fight your own selfish corner.

[Mr Tickle]

They're the people who I consider deserve my sympathy, not people who can afford to buy but, for whatever reason, won't because they have delusions of grandeur.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or they want value for money ??

[ianupton]

Oh right you're an anarchist, the whole thing is making a bit more sense now. You're after something for nothing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i spend my money on 'luxuries' as its paper money. like lira. worthless.

im standing up for the postman, shop worker and joe average. sure. i can buy something trashy and get on the ladder at all costs, throwing caution to the interest winds and praying my job holds steady for a further 30 years (lifetime). you keep selling me on that. if i can just about do it on 40k (btw im 36) i know anybody below my wage hasnt a hope in hell.

i have alot to lose from anarchy, so i suppose im not an anarchist. im more of an angry citizen penned in and waiting for the social breakdown.

who is going to deliver your letters when the city is empty except for 'professional couples'.

whos going to put your fires out and arrest your burgulars. estate agents.?

this is complete madness.

[Bluelady]

So why are you ranting about yourself being hard pushed @ 3.5x income for a large 3 bed detached?

          Why not rant for them if you're so altruistic? The only reason you've brought them up (which I did first) is to try and fight your own selfish corner.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And with the help of Rightmove you've amply demonstrated, KOTC, that if you live in Wigan, you can afford a house on 3 x salary + 10% deposit if you earn less than £10k. It's the poor devils in Cornwall and other second home paradises I feel sorry for.

[Bluelady]

Or they want value for money ??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How can you possibly say that a 4 bed house in open countryside isn't value for money at £160k? A one bedroom flat in London costs that - pull yourself together, Mr Tickle.

[Mr Tickle]

Yes but just because people can buy them, doesn't mean they're not overpriced does it?

Take tin of spagetti (sp) at £50 , I buy that for cash and have no debt, BUT ITS STILL OVERPRICED

[Mr Tickle]

How can you possibly say that a 4 bed house in open countryside isn't value for money at £160k?  A one bedroom flat in London costs that - pull yourself together, Mr Tickle.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where exactly ?

And comparing London prices to the rest of the country is not relevent.

[rentboy]

King Of The Castle,

From your beloved telegraph...

Research carried out by National Savings and Investments reveals that while wages have increased by an average of 79 per cent in the past 10 years, house prices have gone up by a massive 180 per cent.

It is simple. It has never been more difficult for first time buyers to buy houses than it currently is. Whether you want to convince yourself it is because young people are more greedy now etc etc is up to you - but it is wrong. Many reasons have caused this shortage of first time buyers, but the rampant expansion of the BTL market has not been an insignificant contributing factor.

What is happening now is that the market once again requires FTBs desperately to prop up this enormous pyramid and simply maintain the status quo. Unfortunately, FTBs were left behind some time ago and are simply in no position to buy - especially as the saturated BTL market makes renting a viable alternative.

What happens next?

It is really all rather simple as these things occur with uncanny regularity within our sado-masichistic property market. Prices will fall - a great number of the stupid/greedy/unlucky (or combination of) will lose the shirts of their backs and the market keep dropping until once again first time buyers find the confidence to buy their first home. You will find more likely than not this will actually be below the long-term trend.

All this talk of mouseholding, shared-ownership etc etc are the last desperate acts of a bubble gone wildly out of control and these things don't tend to unwind without a lot of heartache.

It was fun (for some) while it lasted but prepare for a hangover.

[Bluelady]

Yes but just because people can buy them, doesn't mean they're not overpriced does it?

Take tin of spagetti (sp) at £50 , I buy that for cash and have no debt, BUT ITS STILL OVERPRICED 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course it is - relative to another tin of beans. If you look at house prices in Wigan they're almost giving them away, relative to virtually anywhere else in the UK, they represent fantastic value for money.