Dames Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 doesn't matter what market you "invest" in,the secret is timing. And that about sums it up for me personally . Dames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 add to that the assets you have don't actually do anything upon purchase,it's only when you physically buy or sell at a later date that you make a real profit or loss. It is after all only a paper value until a transaction is done,and I find it highly amusing listening to people harping on about how much their house is worth!(how stupid!,got to sell it first to realise the cash). oh and in stock market terms,every good investor puts a stop-loss on their shares.(and adjust if the price reaches a higher bracket...note the same does NOT apply on the way down!!)..if the shares fall to that value they sell them and either: a)bank profits b)minimise loss. anybody want to disagree that the same principal does not apply to property also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneaky_snookems Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Well from my experience the under 30's bracket seem to be the most responsible with money. The single most expensive purchase other than houses are cars. My family run a garage and I can tell you from first hand the under 30's are far more responsible with their money. An under 30 will generally buy cheaper, low maintenance cars and diesels have become extremely sort after by this age group. Over 30's tend to want larger cars, they are much more concerned with cup holders and whether it has 7 seats (even though there is 4 in their family) than how many miles to the gallon, servicing and insurance charges. Under 30's tend to sell their current cars privately and save themselves ££££'s rather than part ex them which pulls in a much lower price. They also keep their cars longer and don't lose 40% of there expense in the first four years. Over thirties say "they don't want the hassle" of selling privately so are prepared to pay the garage £££'s to take the car off them. Under 30's read the finance agreements carefully and question warranties etc. They also visit more garages to compare prices and try to do deals. Over 30's check the repayments and sign more quickly on the dotted line. These same people are also under the interpritation that a MOT will cost far more than selling their 3 year old car and buying a new one. Keeping up with the Jone's is as important than practicality. They are generally happy with just whats on the forecourt. Sorry but when it comes to cars I know the younger people are far tougher nuts to crack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledgehead Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 My family run a garage and I can tell you from first hand the under 30's are far more responsible with their money.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why should TTRTR / BBB / dogbox listen to a hopeless, clueless individual like you sneaky? If you had any idea about investment / business you'd have closed the garage biz, stud-walled the showrooms into 16 shoeboxes and let them out at a yield of 1% below mortgage rate. The trouble with your sort is you just have no imagination.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Quite right!!! I have only ever bough 2 cars privately(and both of them were through family so i didn't get ripped off.) the rest i have bought at auction,driven for a couple of years and then sold for more than I paid for them,as a result I've had minimal depreciation! not quite what most car owners experience. and i've been doing that since Iwas old enough to drive! but sneaky has raised some good points. Even at car auctions you can tell who is a "punter" and prepared to pay over the odds,they're the ones mooching around with clean clothes and a parkers guide they just bought at tesco's the real tradesmen have the glass' guide,which is far more realistic.And it's still possible to get really good bargains if there are types of car you want and they are't taking much of an interest in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneaky_snookems Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Why should TTRTR / BBB / dogbox listen to a hopeless, clueless individual like you sneaky? If you had any idea about investment / business you'd have closed the garage biz, stud-walled the showrooms into 16 shoeboxes and let them out at a yield of 1% below mortgage rate. The trouble with your sort is you just have no imagination.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Quite obviously hit a nerve there. LOL don't shoot the the mesenger. Not talking investments CARS ARE NOT. Talking general expenses like the orignal thread started with. Guess you just bought a new car Sucker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledgehead Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Doh! Too late sneaky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Quite obviously hit a nerve there. LOL don't shoot the the mesenger. Not talking investments CARS ARE NOT. Talking general expenses like the orignal thread started with. Guess you just bought a new car Sucker <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Er, I think he was being tongue-in-cheek funny, actually... Note the at the end...? Made me laugh, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patiodoors Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Quite obviously hit a nerve there. LOL don't shoot the the mesenger. Not talking investments CARS ARE NOT. Talking general expenses like the orignal thread started with. Guess you just bought a new car Sucker <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Doh, he's on your side, spanner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneaky_snookems Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Sneaky, Sledge's post was tongue-in-cheek. I think the "sucker" is perhaps the person who did not spot this?<{POST_SNAPBACK}> My apologies Sledgehead I have had a couple of glasses of en-vino and took it the wrong way. No offence aye. I'm +30 but appreciate the way the -30's deal with their money. Fair play makes our job harder. Still there are plenty of Bull's and BTLer's to take their equity from out there. Let's face it they are the financial wisards out their. LOL not in my game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledgehead Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 No worries. Tried to help but they're a bit quick today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jem Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 "It is not making me angry. It emphasises one of the obvious reasons why this crash will be dramatic and sustained. There is a whole generation out there who live for today, spend like there is no tommorow and are a timebomb on the OO's who were reliant on the ridiculous inflation of HP's they bragged about yesterday (but not anymore). The crash is on us, just a few in denial for another six months and then watch the fireworks, repossions , bankruptcies, and economic chaos. Its not going to be a pretty sight and the greed of vested interest will be the cause. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If the crash is upon us it seems as if FTB's are not going to be able to get on the property ladder anyway. They haven't been saving and are doing the usual adolescent things of blaming everyone else for their lack of discipline. Don't shout to loudly about bringing on the crash, your job and those of others might well crash as well. No more complaining please - you're not on the ladder because you wanted to have a good time. Fair enough - don't blame prices or greed you could have got on a decade ago at least - but you were having fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneaky_snookems Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 If the crash is upon us it seems as if FTB's are not going to be able to get on the property ladder anyway. They haven't been saving and are doing the usual adolescent things of blaming everyone else for their lack of discipline. Don't shout to loudly about bringing on the crash, your job and those of others might well crash as well.No more complaining please - you're not on the ladder because you wanted to have a good time. Fair enough - don't blame prices or greed you could have got on a decade ago at least - but you were having fun. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Keep it coming Jem. You need flash cars as well as over-inflated property. Keep spending you know it makes sense. Hell you have the equity. At present Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledgehead Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 If the crash is upon us it seems as if FTB's are not going to be able to get on the property ladder anyway. Uh, yes they will. It will just ahve to fall further than you hope! No more complaining please - you're not on the ladder because you wanted to have a good time. Fair enough - don't blame prices or greed you could have got on a decade ago at least - but you were having fun.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm "On the ladder" or "down-escalator" - nothing is cast in stone. As fo rthe STRs, what have they to complain about. We are merely telling you that BTL has fuelled this rise and BTL yields in areas where prices have risen no longer make sense. Just ask our savy PM. £2750 / wk on a £3.5m property. That's 4% gross, no voids, no agents fees, no maintenance. And he still can't let the place. The area average is £2000/wk gross. That's 3% gross, no voids, no management fees, no maintenance. I'm not complaining: I'm laughing. And that's now. Wait for the capital depreciation. It's not difficult to imagine property wiping out the combined accumulated wealth of a PM and a top flight barrister combined. Tell me what you can afford to lose that they can't. Investment? Hah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Charlie The Tramp Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Wait for the capital depreciation. It's not difficult to imagine property wiping out the combined earnings of the PM and a top flight barrister combined. Tell me what you can afford that they can't. Investment? Hah! I read that at the beginning of December a snooty big gun estate agent in the area stated that the PM would see his property drop by 600k by Christmas. How many years salary is that. Also the rent asked was reduced by 1K per week. Oh dear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzg113 Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 If the crash is upon us it seems as if FTB's are not going to be able to get on the property ladder anyway. They haven't been saving and are doing the usual adolescent things of blaming everyone else for their lack of discipline. Don't shout to loudly about bringing on the crash, your job and those of others might well crash as well.No more complaining please - you're not on the ladder because you wanted to have a good time. Fair enough - don't blame prices or greed you could have got on a decade ago at least - but you were having fun. Where did that choleric rant come from Jem? Normally your posts are lucid and rational. They haven't been saving And you know this how exactly? Don't shout to loudly about bringing on the crash, your job and those of others might well crash as well. Not you though Jem, because you're in the public sector, so you'll be fine. What is it they say, those who can, do, those who can't......? you're not on the ladder because you wanted to have a good time. I have heard a lot of horseshit on this site, much of it from 3B. But I have NEVER, and I mean NEVER, heard someone say something as stupid as this. you could have got on a decade ago at least Or not, as the case may be. Jem=tosspot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Here is a fact: 99% of people predicting a crash are either tenants, would be landlords, people who still live with their parents. Landlords generally don't discuss crashes because they don't really care. If prices crash short or medium term so be it, because they do not need to sell. Indeed many landlords love all the negative press and sentiment. It creates more tentants as they delay buying or sell then rent. THAT'S A POST FROM A LANDLORDZONE SENIOR MEMBER Just goes to show you they haven't quite figured out how the market works yet!! STR's sell up and naiveFTB/BTL buy at hyped up prices. STR then rent while prices fall....of course rental demand goes up,but yield doesn't rise at the same rate as there is saturation. next step,Naive BTL and FTB get caught by higher mortgage payments with obvious repercussions of defaults/repo's STR still has their money tucked away,not spending so Retail slows. Naive FTB/BTL can't spend either. Retail starts to tank....resulting in job losses. More defaults/repo's...etc etc..and the spiral declines! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric pebble Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 The original poster cannot possibly be addressing me.I too have savings and no debt at all - and yes I have a credit card but only use it moderately and pay it off every month. And in the all the years I've been away from home - never have I run to my parents for money. Never. I am proud of this and my parents are proud of me for that. Yet it does seem that other people in the country are running up huge mortgages and credit card bills with impunity. Why have they been allowed to do so ? In today's market there is no way I am going to blow the savings I so diligently worked for over 7 years in order to buy a shit hole. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Very, very good post warks-lad -- so totally hits the spot. Why should you (or your mates) pay £195-235+k for a miserable little sh*thole which cost the present owner & seller £65-75k only 4-6 years ago!!!! Crazy!!!! Just offer them a tenner more than they paid for it!- Why not? Inflation is apparently neglible!!! Ha Ha Ha!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest keano Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Very, very good post warks-lad -- so totally hits the spot. Why should you (or your mates) pay £195-235+k for a miserable little sh*thole which cost the present owner & seller £65-75k only 4-6 years ago!!!! Crazy!!!! Just offer them a tenner more than they paid for it!-Why not? Inflation is apparently neglible!!! Ha Ha Ha!!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Totally agree with you Eric....so many people have just basically taken the piss with their selling prices...Let them ROT! "suppose they gave a war ...and nobody came" FTB's.....JUST DON'T BUY!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watching the neg heads Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 It's true most people on this forum are not steeped in debt. STRs obviously have no debt and large savings and potential FTBs are much the same (but usually with slightly less savings). The HPC earnings survey showed that the average HPC forum poster is an above average earner, a highly educated/ qualified professional with above average savings and no debt, and not much like the people mentioned in the article.So TTRTR, why are we so angry? Probably because we feel like we are living in a country where stupidity rules, a society that rewards greed and debt fuelled consumerism above hard work and dedication. A society where you are punished for actually trying to produce something rather than make money out of someone eles's misfortune, where you're are more valued and rewarded as a BTLer renting out houses to people on sickness benefit than you are studying to become a scientist or an engineer. A society whereby any opposition to its twisted values are met with spin and misinformation by the vested interests. I'm just guessing here, but I think some or all of those points are why intellegent people in this country are angry. TTRTR, I know you are not under 30. The under 30s in 2005 in this country have more cards (no pun intended) stacked against them than at any time in living memory, and they are greeted with nothing but gloating by the "I'm alright jack, you should have bought to let in 1995" brigade. Anyway, rant over. Back to work - some of us have to actually produce something don't you know! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> you deluded by the assumption that working hard gets you ahead! Working smart does that actually. Your comment about intelligent people (it gives the impression that you consider you ARE one) is laughable. Many conventionally 'academically intelligent' people have no nous or street skills to get ahead financially. Most of the high achievers academically that i know are in the middle class poverty trap and are living a pretence to the world fuelled by credit and ulcers...its so pathetic to observe. These folk were taken in by the hype....go to school..pass exam.get great job.....get married.borrow for a house.....zzzzzzzzzzzz...then spend the rest of your sad existence on this earth feeling sorry for yourself.....oh..then die! How CAN you be intelligent if you are doing the same arduous unrewarding things day in day out....and expecting a different outcome each time....pretty dumb dont you think? Re hard work/dedication.....dont tell me youre in the NHS? As that is a typical grumble in that world (firemen etc etc) People have known for years that nurses are underpaid...yet some go into nursing (fair enough)..but then moan that its underpaid..heeelllooo? There are lots of jobs in this catagory....solution is IF you wanna make big bucks......AVOID THESE JOBS LIKE THE PLAGUE! Dont tke jobs like this then moan.....doing so simply singles you out as a...stupid b...excuse maker for your shortcomings basic economic issue is scarcity of resources... and how much money follows resources..or otherwise! if you dont like your situation......then bloody well change it and begin a fresh start to your life. There are no excuses if you are healthy and intelligent living in the UK. Your rant says a lot about you....no thought out substance.and working on the theory that bleating will distract the listenier from your REAL reality! go ahead guys...pick over this like vultures as you usually do...cant believe no one else on here (regardless of if bull or bear) agrees with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 I agree with you...partially. people who teach,in nhs etc do it because they are "caring|" professions and they care about people....but in so doing leave themselves susceptible to emotional blackmail and crap pay. you are right in saying you have to protect your own ar**,but morally speaking are you saying its ok to take the advantage of others to get yourself ahead in the world?...then it's equally fine to capitalise when people fall on hard times like repo victims and btl gone wrong. I think you might find that thinking like this is why the arabs/al quaeda hate us in the first place. It still won't stop be preying on some poor landlord that got his fingers burned...but what goes around comes around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watching the neg heads Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Well said Oracle My sentiments entirely....I learned early on this fact.by observing others...learn form others mistakes and not your own I trade in property ful time, and if there is a price crash or not, I will still do very well as i know what I am doing. good luck to you, and if you prosper at the expense of a non savvy btl ll........then so be it my Law of the jungle attitude to life might not be everyones cup of tea.but in these so called unfair times (on the face of it).it is the simplest way of not getting hammered financially the balance here is that prob people with caring jobs would, if push came to shove, stay in them rather than (if given the chance) have a ruthless money making job. they wld prob realise they are more contented staying as they are it doesnt sort out their financial matters...but they cld argue (if it were poss to contrast these things) that they are happier than a high roller with money to burn the other consideration is that material gain which we experience in the west is the 'price' we must pay for our materialistic greed...............the west drives the world generally speaking and gets pilloried for it however that will never stop....so by saying we antagonised the middle east etc by our wealth and attitude is pointless my real point was to simply say to peole to stop moaning.or take action i hate to hear noise for noise sake for a web site to be devoted to people moaning about a house price crash.its absurd I feel that luxury caribbean cruises and aston martins are more than id like to pay ...but i dont start a cruise price crash web site do i? just get on with life i say.and deal with what cards you have......or play another game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzg113 Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 luxury caribbean cruises and aston martins are more than id like to pay ...but i dont start a cruise price crash web site do i? People can live without luxury cruises or aston martins. They cannot live without their own homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 My mum used to teach and gave a lot of the excuses you have stated. I realised at about the age of 13 that we were fundamentally different people and I didn't want to go through the kind of crap she did. it was tricky because her mindset was precisely...do well at school,go to college,go to uni...get a job etc. then I got into flogging cars at 17.bought at auction and sold for profit. just a sideline but it did teach me how to trade. then I got into share trading as a hobby while I was doing a 9-5. Thing is I found economics really boring,but still breezed it with minimal study. school of life is a much better teacher than any classroom...that's a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wrongmove Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 They cannot live without their own homes.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Er, well, I hate to agree with "trolling the neg heads", but they can and they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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