I've Been Laid Off

[HovelinHove]

The computing industry wasn't overrun with Eastern European programmers in the last recession either. Doesn't mean it won't be this time. Get with the program!

You missed my point, computing isn't customer facing.

It is true that the NHS is falling apart, and if our economy becomes as sick as those in Africa, then there will be no money to spend on drugs. If that's the case I will go to another part of the world where white anglo-saxon males with excellent sales experience and greater knowledge of six different disease areas than most doctors have, will find work. Otherwise I'll just have to get a job in MacDonalds like everyone else...big deal, as long as I can buy a bit of food and pay for a roof over my head I don't really care.

[Gen-X]

HovelinHove,

It does not take much for a cultural movement to gain ground and change how things used to be done. No job is safe. For Example

The third-year Temple University student refuses free lunches at his Philadelphia hospital. He won't accept free textbooks or stethoscopes, or even pens advertising brand-name drugs. The pen Pak uses says "PharmFREE." Pak vows that when he becomes a doctor, he won't have any dealings with drug reps. In the meantime, he is participating in a counter-marketing campaign. Pak and other med students are visiting doctors' offices and urging physicians to learn about drugs from objective scientific sources, rather than from drug reps.

"We've been very well-received," Pak said.

The counter-marketing campaign is being run by the American Medical Student Association, which is meeting this week at the Palmer House Hilton.

While still a minority, a growing number of medical students are rejecting industry marketing. More than 5,000 students have taken the PharmFree Pledge, promising to accept no money, gifts or hospitality from the pharmaceutical industry and to not rely on information from drug reps.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-drugs30.html

http://www.amsa.org/prof/pharmfree.cfm

[HovelinHove]

While still a minority, a growing number of medical students are rejecting industry marketing. More than 5,000 students have taken the PharmFree Pledge, promising to accept no money, gifts or hospitality from the pharmaceutical industry and to not rely on information from drug reps.

They won't have much choice when they're doing a fifty hour week. I come across the odd sniffy doctor who treats me like I just crawled out from under a stone, but if I do get into a discussion about morality I just say: "If you feel that strongly about industry then stop using our products." Soon shuts them up. I agree it would be much better if Drs sat down and did their own research, but they don't have time. Just like it would be much better if there was no pharma industry at all and all research and development was done by government. We don't pay enough taxes for that.

[laurejon]

I think you will find that India has a huge emerging market in pharmaceuticals.

There is also a huge following that is asking why are we spending billions on premium prices for designer drugs, when their generic counterparts are manufactured for a fraction of the cost.

HIV and Africa is one such case, the manufacture of the drug that delays the onset of Aids is now agreed and currently under production ready for distribution.

Hospitals will shortly be asked to provide best value, 10 quid for a bog roll is no longer acceptable. The NHS has a Fantastic Bargaining position, they administrators will soon be exposed for the back handers, and perks they take and the market will be opened up to make sure that the NHS bargains as a single entity, bulk orders.

The NHS is in the unique position of holding the drugs companies to ransom, NHS is a monopoly, like Tesco they should begin to squeeze for best value. I have never understood why the Government pay for the research, then the drugs companies reap the rewards.

Sales are the first people to get hit in a downturn, marketing is the place to be, budgets go up when the going gets tough.

[HovelinHove]

Sales are the first people to get hit in a downturn, marketing is the place to be, budgets go up when the going gets tough.

Do you work in sales?

[MarkG]

Otherwise I'll just have to get a job in MacDonalds like everyone else...

I don't know where you are, but it's been a while since I saw a British person working in a fast-food place in London. In fact, one of the reasons why I don't go to London much anymore is the sheer difficulty of buying stuff from people whose first language isn't English.

As far as I can see, most fast food jobs have already been 'insourced', at least in central London.

[laurejon]

No I dont work in sales.

It was something I seriously though of getting involved in, if you are good then you are on a winner.

Problem is...........when the market shrinks companies first cut is the sales team, as there are far fewer leads to follow. The companies will begin to chase the more qualitative leads, cold calls go out the window they want to minimise the work effort with a smaller team that sells to existing customers.

I have friends in sales, Yellow Pages being one example, its a tough world to live in you are only as good as your last sale. No Sales, then no job, its a very tough and constantly changing market.

[HovelinHove]

No I dont work in sales.

It was something I seriously though of getting involved in, if you are good then you are on a winner.

Problem is...........when the market shrinks companies first cut is the sales team, as there are far fewer leads to follow. The companies will begin to chase the more qualitative leads, cold calls go out the window they want to minimise the work effort with a smaller team that sells to existing customers.

I have friends in sales, Yellow Pages being one example, its a tough world to live in you are only as good as your last sale. No Sales, then no job, its a very tough and constantly changing market.

Pharma sales is very different. I've worked in other areas and I know how sensitive they are to economic movement, but much less so in this area. Likewise when times are good you don't really make that much more. Also in pharma sales direct marketing is quite limited..the man on the ground is everything.

[laurejon]

I have a couple of friends I met in Sydney, both female Doctors who work in Pharma Sales.

The spend couple of days in a lab, then fly off all over the place. The rewards are as you say very good, high basic, and commision is the best in the Sales Industry.

However Private Hospitals are you are most likely aware are now focusing much more atttention to the costs of the operation. The reason is simple, todays private hospitals are powered by accountants who are detatched from the emotional process and concentrate solely on the balance sheet, cost benefit analysis and such like.

NHS is now emerging to become very similiar, cost centres, budget allocations with ceilings that are set in stone. The recent overspends by the NHS have involved some serious wrist slapping and central government have made them aware they will take the hard decisions if required to straightjacket rogue hospitals that do not tow the line with regard to finances.

I am no expert and you are well placed to explain to us why exactly this market is exponential and cannot contract during periods of fiscal money belt tightening.

[HovelinHove]

I am no expert and you are well placed to explain to us why exactly this market is exponential and cannot contract during periods of fiscal money belt tightening.

The market is not exponential, but there ae new products coming out each year that are a bit more vital to have than the latest i-pod or plasma TV. When a drug company brings out an improved drug it will add years to a life or improve life considerably.

I agree that the NHS is very cost driven, and that it makes a lot of noise about drug budgets, but as I said earlier, the actual amounts it spends on drugs is tiny compared to salaries etc. Drugs are incredibly good value for what you get. But even if the NHS stopped spending money on new drugs, the pharma industry would still be OK because people will always find money for drugs if they have a real proven benefit, they'll just start spending their own money instead, or insurance money.

[laurejon]

Provided they have those funds, from what I hear one of the HIV drugs is priced at 10k per annum, that is not small change for someone who is feeling under the weather.

I will give another example, and maybe some members (Excuse the punn) have some direct experience of this.

VIAGRA.............£80 under prescription from the Doctors for 4 measely tablets, so expensive the Doctors advise the victim to cut them in half as they are only allowed to prescribe 4 per month. (Thats a socialsts appetite for sex as they should be busy working, not indulging in pastimes reserved for cabinet members).

Go to a certain internet site, and you can legally purchase generic Viagra for a fraction of the cost.

£1 per tablet so people tell me

[MarkG]

Indeed. The reality is that drug prices are set by governments through patents, regulation and government purchasing... and if governments get stuck for cash, they'll happily reduce the pharamceutical companies' profits before they lose votes.

[dubsie]

I can't beleive it, i've been laid off again for the third time.

I worked in the printing trade and have seen orders all but vanish at the firm where I worked.

I suppose this is an effect of the economy in a downturn, the print trade is usually one of the first to suffer after retail when things get tight.

Looks like the house deposit will have to bee used to live on for a while :angry:

Very sorry to hear about your job, I think lots of people are losing their jobs at the moment. Car Plants, NHS, NTL etc.

Yet we keep allowing new immigrants to fill the low paid jobs from Eastern Europe. This is exactly what happened in France and it ended up in riots.

I think there could be trouble ahead

[laurejon]

I think the problem is there wont be trouble ahead, the British are far too polite.

Ever seen a foreigner shortchanged in a shop, there is hell to pay!! Not the same when done to a Brit, usually both apologise and go about their business.

[kevino]

Kev, The housing market colapse will lead to recession which will lead to job losses, a lot here wants the crash but without the nasty bits that comes along with it, ive talked in length about it before.

"HPC Lunatics" - wtf are you on? to want a HPC but have nothing negative economically is lunacy, there has to be economic distress otherwise there wont be a HPC. The lunatics are the ones who think that somehow we can have a HPC but not have the bad bits.

The mans lost his job for christ sake - guess what... not my problem, in the same way as if he dropped dead tommorow i wouldnt give a damn, i dont know him. He isnt the first person to lose a job, he wont be the last should i of said how sorry i was to hear about it? Even though i have nothing to apologise for, even though me saying it will not fix the situation for him in any way at all. Should i be all sympathetic to a stranger who has lost his job?

As for me , my mum finds out on monday if she keeps her job (20% of the work force being laid off at her place) i have no sympathy for her either, what the hell will my sympathy do? Ill have to pay the bills until she can find another job. No point in wallowing in pity.

As for my losing my job, i dont care, read through other posts of mine, theres no job beneath me , im strong, physically fit, reasonably intelligent, dont mind manual labour. I will do just like eveyrone else has to do if they lose their job - get another one. It might be less paid but so be.

As for tunnel vision, that statement demonstrates seeing the wider picture not tunnel vision. To want a HPC without peopel losing thier jobs or homes is tunnel vision. The bigger picture is that it all turns to sh*t not that house prices magically float down to 3.5 x salary.

To the OP i dont mean to be rude when i say i dotn give a damn if you lose your job but in all honesty i dont and i think if your true to yourself you dont give a sh*t if i lose my job - why should you, you dont know me, if i lost a finger why would you care, if i died tommorow you wouldnt know about it, it wouldnt impact your life at all.

I have no sympathy for an anonymous name who posts on a interenet forum - even if i did what would it solve? at very best it might make you feel better because some random words have apeared on a forum saying that they are sorry, sorry for what i dont know - unless they are your boss who made the decession to sack you, but still each to thier own.

Back to you kev, losing a job is not the end of the world. In short he will get another one, because he has to (assuming), its a pain in the ass for sure but not the end of the world.

I stand by the fact that it is a "necessary side effect to a HPC" the actual statement was meant as a reminder to everyone to be careful what they wish for, but as a statement of fact (as far as im concerned) it still stands.

If you had no sympathy, best to keep the bloody trap shut.

But on "be careful what you wish for", I 100% agree.....................

With spelling like that, you ain't going to have the most intellectual job are you...............

And before you go on a rant, I'm not afraid of physical labour or the great outdoors.

In the last two years my job has had me working in -15 below in the pi$$ing rain and snow to 60 above sweating my b0ll0cks off.

Come and work on my crew??

[dubsie]

Britain is in real trouble economically but it has been since for the last 20 years. It has nothing to do with Politics and everything to do with greed.

Just look at all the big companies, they are moving production and sales to the growing markets in China and India. Cheap labour, billions of consumers and cheap workers.

I'm a plumber and the price of copper has risen 5 fold this year as a result of China buying up copper stocks to feed growth.

There was a time when printing ink was made in the UK, made in China now and many companies now get there printing done in china.

Unless we stand up and fight we'll all lose in the end

[uro_who]

Doctors nurses accountants etc are rarely the ones who save lives (unless they work in ER), it's the drugs.

How about surgeons? And yes I know that anaesthetics are drugs. Although the drug makes the procedure possible it doesn't contribute as much to the life saved or quality of life improved as the person with a scalpel in their hand.

Edited May 21, 2006 by uro_who

[Guest Charlie The Tramp]

I have more faith in veterinary drugs, the times I have seen animals make miraculous recoveries has amazed me. As a matter of fact my little dog is treated as a VIP at the vets, whereas I am passed off with a bottle of jollop fom the GP which is next to useless. I would hazard a guess and please shoot me down if I`m wrong, but I would say the majority of drugs and medicines used in this country are dispensed at the local chemist and a large proportion are next to useless. The best drug I have ever come across and banned 20 years ago was used in the veterinary profession called if I remember Supharmethazine 16% solution, brought my Budgie back from his last breath to singig away on his perch five minutes later.