Si1 Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 The other thing though - about having a conscience. I mean how could any decent human being do that? How do they sleep at night? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, Si1 said: Do we know how it first got recognised by the victims as systemic? Who found out? Agreed. I cannot see how senior management involved in the post office can't face significant prison time for this too. It would seem extremely unjust if their lives weren't utterly ruined like they ruined others, at a minimum. I like the way the Welsh FA immediately dismissed a Post Office senior exec from their own executive board when it came to light. It's so dirty. Apparently the problems started in 2000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Post_Office_scandal#Problems I think you are right senior managers should go to prison - I doubt it will happen though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 10 minutes ago, iamnumerate said: Apparently the problems started in 2000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Post_Office_scandal#Problems I think you are right senior managers should go to prison - I doubt it will happen though. And life sentences in the cases where someone has killed themselves. This sort of thing makes my blood boil, there has to be accountability, and meaningful deterrence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 17 hours ago, Bruce Banner said: And life sentences in the cases where someone has killed themselves. This sort of thing makes my blood boil, there has to be accountability, and meaningful deterrence. I don't think that will happen - you are right though. I heard an article about this on GB news and someone phoned in saying "I was working for the post office in the 90s and I thought that this project was going to go wrong." From personal experience telling managers this is going to go wrong - does not work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrink Proof Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 "Lessons will be learned....." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 8 minutes ago, Shrink Proof said: "Lessons will be learned....." that sounds almost like it was OK to make the c0ck up in the first place doesn't it - when it was just institutional incompetence and mendacity - these are not 'lessons to be learned' they are gross derogation of basic professional duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, Si1 said: that sounds almost like it was OK to make the c0ck up in the first place doesn't it - when it was just institutional incompetence and mendacity - these are not 'lessons to be learned' they are gross derogation of basic professional duty. To be honest it seems like basic IT design - when a record is being updated it should be locked until the transaction has finished. Also if a user says x is happening either go to their office and ask them how or do a screenshare. IIRC a lot of these users could reproduce these errors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrink Proof Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 44 minutes ago, Si1 said: that sounds almost like it was OK to make the c0ck up in the first place doesn't it - when it was just institutional incompetence and mendacity - these are not 'lessons to be learned' they are gross derogation of basic professional duty. Of course they are. "Lessons will be learned" is simply one of those platitudinous phrases that are wheeled out after the gross derogation of basic professional duty has been exposed. See sewage dumping water companies for details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) 57 minutes ago, iamnumerate said: To be honest it seems like basic IT design - when a record is being updated it should be locked until the transaction has finished. Also if a user says x is happening either go to their office and ask them how or do a screenshare. IIRC a lot of these users could reproduce these errors. I'm speaking about the post office management cover up where they'd rather send 100s of innocent post-masters to prison and ruin their lives and reputations rather than fess up an IT failure. Edited June 23, 2022 by Si1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 33 minutes ago, Si1 said: I'm speaking about the post office management cover up where they'd rather send 100s of innocent post-masters to prison and ruin their lives and reputations rather than fess up an IT failure. That I can't understand. In one case someone committed suicide and when his successor had the same problem - they said "No one has ever had this problem before." Morally bankrupt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Just now, iamnumerate said: That I can't understand. In one case someone committed suicide and when his successor had the same problem - they said "No one has ever had this problem before." Morally bankrupt. Evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Si1 said: Evil. Yep - I think if it weren't for the war in Ukraine and high inflation there were be more attention paid to this. Here are some petitions https://www.change.org/p/beisgovuk-post-office-scandal-full-compensation-and-accountability https://www.change.org/p/government-post-office-horizon-scandal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 7 hours ago, iamnumerate said: Yep - I think if it weren't for the war in Ukraine and high inflation there were be more attention paid to this. Here are some petitions https://www.change.org/p/beisgovuk-post-office-scandal-full-compensation-and-accountability https://www.change.org/p/government-post-office-horizon-scandal I have this mental vision of these senior managers being terribly pally and going to ostentatious garden parties in each others' mansions being terribly self congratulatory and empathetic with one another, totally having each others' back utterly implicitly. They've probably all got dirt on one another too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 Eastern Daily Press: Norfolk sub-postmaster cleared after Horizon scandal. https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/norfolk-subpostmaster-cleared-court-of-appeal-horizon-scandal-9171456 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 12 minutes ago, Si1 said: Eastern Daily Press: Norfolk sub-postmaster cleared after Horizon scandal. https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/norfolk-subpostmaster-cleared-court-of-appeal-horizon-scandal-9171456 Good news but 17 years is far too long. I agree with this but I doubt it will happen sadly. I very much doubt they will get fair compensation. Quote "They deserve to be fully compensated as quickly as possible and should not be forced to wait a day longer than necessary." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 20 minutes ago, iamnumerate said: Good news but 17 years is far too long. I agree with this but I doubt it will happen sadly. I very much doubt they will get fair compensation. Literally a 17 year sentence. Astonishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryBoi Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 Did the ex-CEO get her CBE rescinded? Surely there must be some minimum standard of integrity to retain such recognition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, TerryBoi said: Did the ex-CEO get her CBE rescinded? Surely there must be some minimum standard of integrity to retain such recognition. Nope don't believe so. She has the wisdom of Solomon apparently.... "Paula has taken biblical inspiration from the young King Solomon, who showed humility in asking God for a wise and understanding heart, so that he could rule his people with justice (1 Kings 3:6-12).... She has sought to celebrate what is good and deal decisively with what is not. She says communication should be inspiring, but also well structured, and it should not duck complexity – over-simple messages can leave people dissatisfied. In all this she has found inspiration from the person of Jesus." https://www.postofficetrial.com/2019/02/the-ballad-of-paula-vennells.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 On 27/07/2022 at 16:20, Si1 said: Nope don't believe so. She has the wisdom of Solomon apparently.... "Paula has taken biblical inspiration from the young King Solomon, who showed humility in asking God for a wise and understanding heart, so that he could rule his people with justice (1 Kings 3:6-12).... She has sought to celebrate what is good and deal decisively with what is not. She says communication should be inspiring, but also well structured, and it should not duck complexity – over-simple messages can leave people dissatisfied. In all this she has found inspiration from the person of Jesus." https://www.postofficetrial.com/2019/02/the-ballad-of-paula-vennells.html another mad influential pseudo-religious crackpot with govt influence - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 On 27/07/2022 at 16:20, Si1 said: Nope don't believe so. She has the wisdom of Solomon apparently.... "Paula has taken biblical inspiration from the young King Solomon, who showed humility in asking God for a wise and understanding heart, so that he could rule his people with justice (1 Kings 3:6-12).... She has sought to celebrate what is good and deal decisively with what is not. She says communication should be inspiring, but also well structured, and it should not duck complexity – over-simple messages can leave people dissatisfied. In all this she has found inspiration from the person of Jesus." https://www.postofficetrial.com/2019/02/the-ballad-of-paula-vennells.html I think she take inspiration from a different bible passage Luke 18 v8 Quote 8 But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.” Sadly she probably can't afford to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 Disgrace..... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9510757/Former-Post-Office-boss-step-regular-church-duties-priest-storm.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 29 minutes ago, winkie said: Disgrace..... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9510757/Former-Post-Office-boss-step-regular-church-duties-priest-storm.html Religion can be a form of toxic narcissism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 3 minutes ago, Si1 said: Religion can be a form of toxic narcissism All sinners, but those in leadership should at least try and practice what they preach......as sinful as the next person, sometimes worse......only one judge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11477217/Tony-Blair-says-Peter-Mandelson-reassured-Post-Office-Horizon-reliable.html Quote Mr Blair points to a note from then Trade Secretary, Peter Mandelson, which read: ‘There is still some way to go to complete the Horizon project, but the basic development work has been thoroughly evaluated by independent experts who have pronounced it viable, robust... I believe the only sensible choice is to proceed with the Horizon project.’ Lord Arbuthnot, a Tory peer who has long campaigned for sub-postmasters, said: ‘What on earth would such assurance have been based on? ‘Horizon came bottom in eight of the 11 criteria put to the final three bidders - but it was the cheapest. And we now know that Fujitsu itself thought its own software team was a joke.’ A report compiled by the former No10 policy head warned the Horizon project had been ‘beset by problems’ and was ‘increasingly flawed’. Mr Blair flagged his concerns but, he now points out, was reassured by the note from Mr Mandelson the following day. Horizon had already been scrapped by another government department after problems in testing. Horizon campaign Eleanor Shaikh, in a 579-page report handed to the inquiry, said: ‘Blair ruled that the Post Office must purchase a salvaged version of Horizon’, and that he ‘had received multiple communications regarding Horizon’s chequered history’. It added: ‘Right up until the day before the Prime Minister’s decision, the Post Office were vociferous... they wished to terminate Horizon and start afresh with a new supplier.’ Incidentally I was in the post office the other day and I asked about Horizon and they said they still have problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 18 minutes ago, iamnumerate said: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11477217/Tony-Blair-says-Peter-Mandelson-reassured-Post-Office-Horizon-reliable.html Incidentally I was in the post office the other day and I asked about Horizon and they said they still have problems Well, if you can't trust Peter Mandelson and Tony Blair, who CAN you trust? 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.