Major job losses at Welsh Uni - 8% drop in student applications

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

2 minutes ago, One-percent said:

I think in part you are right.  The biggest issue is 'trendy' teaching methods. I could not help my kids at primary with long multiplication because they were being taught a different method.  I would have confused them plus it didn't make sense to me what they were being asked to,do.  

Why not just stick with the tried and trusted?  That way, we all no how to do it and all of us can pitch in and help.  No point in being clever if no one knows what the feck is going on 

I don't think the teaching method matters when they don't practice the skill afterwards because they don't have to. 

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

4 minutes ago, mathschoc said:

True....it is an additional factor, students expect to be totally spoon fed. The benefit system has a lot to answer for too, students from those households tend to be the ones with lowest aspirations.

If you can get money by not working, still get the daily pack of fags, why bother with anything.

What do you mean by students? Children or the usual higher education description?

[One-percent]

2 minutes ago, 24 year mortgage 8itch said:

I don't think the teaching method matters when they don't practice the skill afterwards because they don't have to. 

It does or how can parents help and encourage if they were taught a different method.  

[One-percent]

1 minute ago, 24 year mortgage 8itch said:

What do you mean by students? Children or the usual higher education description?

There is a massive sector between school and university, it's called further education. 

 

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

3 minutes ago, One-percent said:

It does or how can parents help and encourage if they were taught a different method.  

If you need to learn a new method to help and encourage your children that's what you do.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

4 minutes ago, One-percent said:

There is a massive sector between school and university, it's called further education. 

 

I'd consider under 18s to be children. 

[One-percent]

1 minute ago, 24 year mortgage 8itch said:

If you need to learn a new method to help and encourage your children that's what you do.

My parents were taught the same long multiplication method as I was.  It worked.  They could help me.  Why change something that isn't broken?  Fecking madness and one reason why we have an illiterate and innumerate population. 

[mathschoc]

Going to throw in another reason for shortage of good Maths teachers.

I have taught numerous students who went on study Maths at University, some considered  teaching when they applied. None of them have so far ended up in teaching. If you live in the SE, a teachers salary is not enough to pay a landlord/living costs. The majority end up in Banking and Financial sector, there is a LOT more money there. 

The services sector has created a huge imbalance which I don't think will ever be corrected.

Edited April 2, 2017 by mathschoc

[One-percent]

1 minute ago, mathschoc said:

Going to throw in another reason for shortage of good Maths teachers.

I have taught numerous students who went on study Maths at University, some considering teaching when they applied. None of them have so far ended up in teaching because if you live in the SE, a teachers salary is not enough to pay a landlord/living costs. The majority end up in Banking and Financial sector, there is a LOT more money there. 

The services sector has created a huge imbalance which I don't think will ever be corrected.

Teacher training applications generally have been on a downward trend for about five years.  For next academic year, they seem to be falling off a cliff. 

[Mancghirl]

2 minutes ago, mathschoc said:

Going to throw in another reason for shortage of good Maths teachers.

I have taught numerous students who went on study Maths at University, some considered  teaching when they applied. None of them have so far ended up in teaching. If you live in the SE, a teachers salary is not enough to pay a landlord/living costs. The majority end up in Banking and Financial sector, there is a LOT more money there. 

The services sector has created a huge imbalance which I don't think will ever be corrected.

Definitely true.

Also HPI creating shortages of Heads etc in the SE. Why would anyone move from an area like the NW or NE where you can afford a pretty decent lifestyle on a senior teacher salary, to take up a senior leadership role in the SE for 5 to 10k more, but cannot even afford a 1 bed flat?

We've recruited 2 house price influenced relocators from London and Kent this year (North East England).

[Mancghirl]

4 minutes ago, One-percent said:

Teacher training applications generally have been on a downward trend for about five years.  For next academic year, they seem to be falling off a cliff. 

We're now at the stage where the first few years of graduates with the full 9k p.a. tuition fee debt are hitting the jobs/postgrad market. Not coincidental.

Also factor in the dog's breakfast that Gove made of the teacher training routes, and poor perception of terms and conditions generally. It will take a big recruitment programme, which includes the offer to repay loans, to get numbers back up. 

[mathschoc]

4 minutes ago, Mancghirl said:

Definitely true.

Also HPI creating shortages of Heads etc in the SE. Why would anyone move from an area like the NW or NE where you can afford a pretty decent lifestyle on a senior teacher salary, to take up a senior leadership role in the SE for 5 to 10k more, but cannot even afford a 1 bed flat?

We've recruited 2 house price influenced relocators from London and Kent this year (North East England).

I will be moving to your neck of the woods if I don't see a HPC this year

[Mancghirl]

Just now, mathschoc said:

I will be moving to your neck of the woods if I don't see a HPC this year

All welcome!

[nothernsoul]

The problem with maths teaching at primary school is when just written methods of calculation are taught, with no understanding on the childrens part, either because of the teachers weaknesses, or pressure for pupils to pass a test. They have recently replaced the mental maths test with a written calculations test on the SAT exam which I believe is a bad idea. The most important thing for primary school children is a good understanding and feel for number.

 

[CunningPlan]

38 minutes ago, One-percent said:

My parents were taught the same long multiplication method as I was.  It worked.  They could help me.  Why change something that isn't broken?  Fecking madness and one reason why we have an illiterate and innumerate population. 

Have you seen how they teach long division?

The beauty and symmetry of the old method has gone. And it is almost impossible to spot where you have made an error.

[CunningPlan]

25 minutes ago, Mancghirl said:

We're now at the stage where the first few years of graduates with the full 9k p.a. tuition fee debt are hitting the jobs/postgrad market. Not coincidental.

Also factor in the dog's breakfast that Gove made of the teacher training routes, and poor perception of terms and conditions generally. It will take a big recruitment programme, which includes the offer to repay loans, to get numbers back up. 

Friend of mine did the whole teacher training thing and got a job in a fairly standard Surrey school. He quit after a year, not because of the kids or the workload but because of the extreme left wing views in the staff room. Apparently there was even a defaced picture of Maggie in pride of place. He just couldn't find a way to function with his colleagues.

 

. 

[malk]

We need more people going to university not fewer and even then it should be more in the arts and social sciences rather than STEM. Learning to ask the right questions will swiftly be more important than being able to do the calculations.

The problem is the fees but the idea that the solution to £9k pa degrees not being worth it is fewer going to university doesn't seem as sensible as, um, reducing/removing the fees.

And the money is there, we just need the will to get it back from the few people who are hoarding it.

As for teaching, one word. Finland.

[nothernsoul]

Out of curiousity, one percent, which method of long division do they teach your child at school? There are two methods I know of; " chunking" and one that involves going across and dropping numbers down.

[200p]

1 hour ago, One-percent said:

(Math)Teacher training applications generally have been on a downward trend for about five years.  For next academic year, they seem to be falling off a cliff. 

They did the math.....................sssssssssss

Edited April 2, 2017 by 200p

[spyguy]

7 hours ago, mathschoc said:

There are excellent teachers and also very bad. It is just like any other profession, but in teaching the bad teacher impact is damaging.

However, with the state of education at the moment, the good teachers, the ones who plan lessons properly, know their stuff, provide students support and help are exactly the ones who can get jobs outside of teaching, especially if they are good Maths graduates.  The good teachers are leaving at a much faster rate than the not so good. The bad ones are not going anywhere, too thick skinned.

No, the difference is that bad teachers are rarely sacked.

At best, they are shuffled around.

If a bad teacher wants to carry on teaching then they probably can.

[spyguy]

7 hours ago, One-percent said:

I'm not sure I agree given what I see in post 16 classrooms. A significant majority struggle with the basics. That's not indicative of a working education system

The taching may be good but the problem is students are moved up a year whether theyve learned anything or not.

A damming part of the UK school is the ability of ~10% of student to leave school without being to read. I mean, who can they not notice?

(I guess it is possible that the 10% dont turn up).

[spyguy]

7 hours ago, Mancghirl said:

Yes, we've got 2 excellent Engineering grads teaching GCSE. Very fortunate. However, I've taught in inner city schools where no-one in the Maths team had a degree with substantial Maths content. But as you say, we don't have options  - every single UK Maths graduate every year is required to train as a teacher, with current attrition/retirement rates.

I say that anyone with an A level Maths would be able to teach GCSE Maths.

Id even go so far to say anyone with an A* GCSE could teach it.

The curriculum books you can buy for KS4/GCSE Maths are very good. The material has been written for you.

However, I doubt a lot (Most?) of teachers have an A* in GCSE Maths.

[spyguy]

7 hours ago, mathschoc said:

It's because Education is now a big business. Labour ditched O Levels to bring in easier GCSE's, I went through GCSE's myself and I can see the difference. Then came in numerous exam boards all wanting a slice of the pie, the easier the sample papers the more schools join. I can't stand Gove but he hit the nail on the head " a race to the bottom"

Unfortunately he did not do away with the greedy exam boards, something to do with one of them being a large donor to tories.....a bloomin mess.

GCSE were brought in in 1987, during Thatchers term.

[spyguy]

7 hours ago, One-percent said:

There is was a massive sector between school and university, it's called further education. 

 

Cored out now.

It still appears to there - the buildings are there, the lecturers are there, its just theres very little vocational or academic teaching going on. Just seems a sector that teaches a couple of crap A levels, badly, now.

[Dorkins]

8 hours ago, mathschoc said:

Labour ditched O Levels to bring in easier GCSE's

Wrong, GCSEs were introduced in the late 1980s when the Conservatives had been in government for an entire decade.