Si1 Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 The East Coast one also had the advantage of being a generally nicer ride. Not electrified so no annoying posts flicking past the windows but no engines underneath the carriages so no excess noise either (it was one of the 125s, the best trains running on the network today in regular service). What train travel should be. Eh? East coast has been electrified since British Rail days, at least as far north as Edinburgh. They do still run ic125s all the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 I was thinking the other day about HS2 in a what we are told is the future with driverless cars. Is HS2 viable? surely driveless will be cheaper per mile and million times more flexible eg. take me to the door of my meeting? That's an interesting question. At the same time driverless car -> station -> driverless car-> meeting could be pretty seemless if properly coordinated by the right IT. And faster overall too when in the vicinity of high speed trunk railway lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Eh? East coast has been electrified since British Rail days, at least as far north as Edinburgh. They do still run ic125s all the same. East Coast as in the franchise, not the East Coast Main Line (the one Virgin has recently got into, although only as a junior partner I believe, to get their name on the trains). The leg of the journey I was doing with them was Edinburgh to Inverness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 East Coast as in the franchise, not the East Coast Main Line (the one Virgin has recently got into, although only as a junior partner I believe, to get their name on the trains). The leg of the journey I was doing with them was Edinburgh to Inverness. The East coast franchise runs on the east coast main line, hence the name. The east coast main line goes from London up to Inverness and Aberdeen iirc, via Edinburgh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEATH Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 The existing train services for the East Midlands cities, Leicester, Derby and Nottingham will be quicker and more relaxing. It is only 70, 80 and 90mins or thereabouts on the existing trains. It would take 20/30 mins to get a bus/tram to the HST stop, getting on and off with your bags etc to arrive later... Farce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hovis Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Well big infrastructure projects certainly make work. Maybe that is the purpose? Nail on head there Mr Pin. Cut government spending on wasteful bureaucracy in the civil service and local government and instead spend that money on major civil engineering projects that generate real wealth. Even if the actual benefits of HS2 aren't quite as claimed there will still be some benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 The East coast franchise runs on the east coast main line, hence the name. The east coast main line goes from London up to Inverness and Aberdeen iirc, via Edinburgh. Anyway the point is that there are bits of it that I have been on that aren't electrified. That said I don't think that the routes past Edinburgh are generally regarded as part of the ECML (to Inverness is the Highland Main Line, to Aberdeen the Edingburgh to Aberdeen line (or maybe Dundee to Aberdeen and Edinbugh to Dundee). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Even if the actual benefits of HS2 aren't quite as claimed there will still be some benefits. And the downsides of another godawful piece of modern construction shoved through the country, with things belting along it at stupid speeds, increased pressure to travel, life will become busier and more rushed for some people (and hence more stressful), places further lose their sense of separation and independence (such perception of the world is something I personally find rather unappealing) and when you do have to travel a bit less time to put your feet up and watch the world go by, although that's getting less appealing without HS2 as the view from the window continually gets worse and there's less room to put your feet up. Also centralisation and disconnection from people will increase. Oh, and there may be some small economic benefits, whoopy-effing-do (and even that I suspect will be largely parasitic, possibly mostly dragging businesses in to relocate from less "well" connected areas). No wonder I think society is bloody insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxe Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Driverless doesn't really change anything either way, it's still the same road v rail competition whether the car is driven by a human or a computer. IMO real driverless (which is probably further away than most people think) would change the dynamic hugely. Option 1: get a car to the station, wait for (or miss) train, sit on train (if you are lucky), get to the other end, driverless cab everywhere you go. Option 2: driverless car with an office in the back, work all the way to the meeting, get out, don't worry about parking, recall it when done. Driverless will destroy the idea that people will get on trains and not get a seat. If there is no seat, people will take their own car. Unless governments tax driving to oblivion. People are too obsessed by speed - we're driving to the South of France this w/e. We could fly (90 minutes in the plane at 500 mph) but once you've fannied around at the airports, done transfer connections at the other end, you might as well drive, and have the car with you for the week, rather than being trapped in some ski resort and ripped off everywhere you turn. Driverless would make it an obvious choice - the only thing against it is 9 hours solid behind the wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 People are too obsessed by speed - we're driving to the South of France this w/e. We could fly (90 minutes in the plane at 500 mph) but once you've fannied around at the airports, done transfer connections at the other end, you might as well drive, and have the car with you for the week, rather than being trapped in some ski resort and ripped off everywhere you turn. Driverless would make it an obvious choice - the only thing against it is 9 hours solid behind the wheel. I fully agree with "too obsessed by speed" but 9 hours in a driverless car sounds worse than 9 hours behind the wheel, although motorways even that up a bit (by making driving so downright boring). At least on a train you can get out and stretch your legs. Once you'd even have been able to get a meal but that's just about gone. Where in the south of France? I spend 15 months near Nice with work once, great place (although it takes me a long time to settle down to somewhere strange that it was only towards the end I was really appreciating it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 And the downsides of another godawful piece of modern construction shoved through the country, with things belting along it at stupid speeds, increased pressure to travel, life will become busier and more rushed for some people (and hence more stressful), places further lose their sense of separation and independence (such perception of the world is something I personally find rather unappealing) and when you do have to travel a bit less time to put your feet up and watch the world go by, although that's getting less appealing without HS2 as the view from the window continually gets worse and there's less room to put your feet up. Also centralisation and disconnection from people will increase. Oh, and there may be some small economic benefits, whoopy-effing-do (and even that I suspect will be largely parasitic, possibly mostly dragging businesses in to relocate from less "well" connected areas). No wonder I think society is bloody insane. No it will become less busy as less time will be wasted traveling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 No it will become less busy as less time will be wasted traveling. Ha ha, nice one! The easier it gets to travel the more time people spend travelling. And it doesn't make the world a busier place?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxe Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 I fully agree with "too obsessed by speed" but 9 hours in a driverless car sounds worse than 9 hours behind the wheel, although motorways even that up a bit (by making driving so downright boring). At least on a train you can get out and stretch your legs. Once you'd even have been able to get a meal but that's just about gone. Where in the south of France? I spend 15 months near Nice with work once, great place (although it takes me a long time to settle down to somewhere strange that it was only towards the end I was really appreciating it). If it was driverless, I'd get the 22:00 Eurotunnel on Friday night, sleep all the way down and wake up on Saturday morning to go skiing. As it is, we're going to spend most of Saturday driving - which is marginally better than spending most of Saturday waiting around in airports. Serre Chevalier - snow is apparently rather good at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 If it was driverless, I'd get the 22:00 Eurotunnel on Friday night, sleep all the way down and wake up on Saturday morning to go skiing. As it is, we're going to spend most of Saturday driving - which is marginally better than spending most of Saturday waiting around in airports. Serre Chevalier - snow is apparently rather good at the moment. I suppose that that could work. Missed the bit about skiing. Went to Serre Chevalier a few years ago, enjoyed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hovis Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 If it was driverless, I'd get the 22:00 Eurotunnel on Friday night, sleep all the way down and wake up on Saturday morning to go skiing. As it is, we're going to spend most of Saturday driving - which is marginally better than spending most of Saturday waiting around in airports. Serre Chevalier - snow is apparently rather good at the moment. No you wouldn't. I thought the idea of driverless cars was great, have a doze on the way to work and on the way back, but the requirement is that the driver is awake to deal with any emergencies so they are fitted with lots of sensors to check that you are awake, and presumably alarms to wake you up if you nod off. So you may as well be driving because then you have something to do to keep you awake. I won't be buying one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 No you wouldn't. I thought the idea of driverless cars was great, have a doze on the way to work and on the way back, but the requirement is that the driver is awake to deal with any emergencies so they are fitted with lots of sensors to check that you are awake, and presumably alarms to wake you up if you nod off. So you may as well be driving because then you have something to do to keep you awake. I won't be buying one. First generation of them. That'll go eventually. (Still won't be buying one.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hovis Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 First generation of them. That'll go eventually. (Still won't be buying one.) Sure? I don't think so because the main opposition is to the possibility of accidents with nobody in control. If they eventually do let you have a kip in one then I probably would buy one. Get it to drive you to the Lake District through the night on Friday whilst alseep, spend all day walking, back in to sleep overnight whilst it takes you home again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 At present, but the possibility of that concern fading over time seems very real. Then again although road accidents do obviously happen the odds of being caught up in one aren't high enough for them to register on the list of things that concern me. Still wouldn't buy one though. When I go to the Lakes (quite often, I've family there, although your "SW" suggests that you're quite a bit further away than me) I usually avoid the motorways and just enjoy the journey. The same's true for a lot of other journeys I make, even with all the ongoing efforts to mess up as much of the bits in between as possible. Relax, take your time, and never view time as wasted. One of the reasons I despise HS2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eight Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 I spend 15 months near Nice with work once, great place The clue is in the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 The clue is in the name. Just as long as it isn't in the nearby village of Tourettes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxe Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 thought the idea of driverless cars was great, have a doze on the way to work and on the way back, but the requirement is that the driver is awake to deal with any emergencies so they are fitted with lots of sensors to check that you are awake, and presumably alarms to wake you up if you nod off. That is why I said real driverless cars are a lot further off than most people think. I agree - what you describe is not driverless. It is the worst of all worlds - a semi attentive driver with a car doing half the work, and some gaps in the middle (probably). I'm not interested in driverless until I can drive to the pub, get pissed, and have the car (legally) take me home. Or get some kip on a 1000 km journey across France. The technology will get there eventually, but is at least 10 years off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justthisbloke Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Just as long as it isn't in the nearby village of Tourettes. It's not just nice there, it's ******ing nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 I fully agree with "too obsessed by speed" but 9 hours in a driverless car sounds worse than 9 hours behind the wheel, although motorways even that up a bit (by making driving so downright boring). At least on a train you can get out and stretch your legs. Once you'd even have been able to get a meal but that's just about gone. Where in the south of France? I spend 15 months near Nice with work once, great place (although it takes me a long time to settle down to somewhere strange that it was only towards the end I was really appreciating it). You could spend the 9 hours in the car on the moby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Ha ha, nice one! The easier it gets to travel the more time people spend travelling. And it doesn't make the world a busier place?! Overall no. In the past people were kept busy merely trying not to die, eg the middle ages. Despite traveling everywhere on foot they didn't say they had it easy, neither the north Koreans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Overall no. In the past people were kept busy merely trying not to die, eg the middle ages. Despite traveling everywhere on foot they didn't say they had it easy, neither the north Koreans. As I've pointed out numerous times before because an approach / attitude / whatever dragged us out of that that doesn't mean that it make sense to continue to do it indefinitely. So faster and easier travel helped once, but why blindly assume that continually making it faster will do so? We've been past the those medieval conditions for quite a long time now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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