Hail the Tripod Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I don't know about research evidence but I have an anecdotal. After becoming addicted to alcohol I attended AA for a few years from age 32 which got be on the path to long term sobriety. I attended many meetings and heard a lot about people's experiences. Anytime other addictions were mentioned it was agreed by those with experience of heroin, alcohol and tobacco addictions that heroin was the 'easiest' addiction to break, alcohol really tough and tobacco really really tough. In addition a lot of people started smoking when they gave up alcohol and some struggled and failed to give it up. My view is that regardless of the drug there will always be people who become addicted. I'd like to see hard hitting public health education about drug/alcohol addiction (can't see that happening!) and how it blights lives along with legalisation so that all drugs can be taxed. There are two different factors at play, that are often subsumed under the title of addiction. One is a physical addiction, where the body becomes acclimatised to the influence of a specific compound and makes you want a regular top up of it. The other is escapism, where people find their lives unpalatable and escape their "issues" through recreational drugs. Generally this is counter productive and they become more and more dependant on the escape to cope with their circumstance. The irony with the argument that drugs prohibition is protecting people from dangerous addictions is that the best examples of type 1 are mephedrone and nicotine and are actually legal. Alcohol is the probably the primary preference for the second type and again is legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fully Detached Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Whenever I hear the term 'the war on drugs' it always brings to mind one of the rules stated by Sun Tzu in The Art of War: Never engage in a battle that you know you cannot win. This 'war' is clearly unwinnable, if the definintion of 'win' is that no-one uses heroin or cannabis, etc. anymore. So good luck to the ROI for trying a different policy, like Portugal did. Spot on. But very winnable if your definition means the creation or continued existence of some massive law enforcement agencies with appropriately massive budgets and powers. Why, it's almost as if this shift toward decriminalisation has coincided perfectly with the need for huge resources and budget to be thrown at the war on terror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fully Detached Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Regarding the addiction element, some might find this interesting - I'm certainly not saying he's absolutely correct, but this video was thought provoking enough for me to buy a couple of his books, and I'm now very much into his general health philosophies: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Allegro Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Isn't it all to do with increasing tax revenues? IIRC, in the USA, hardcore porn was legalised around 1970, ostensibly because of free speech, but mainly because it was hugely profitable for organised crime, and the government didn't like the competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_ Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 So Republic of Ireland about to get a huge tourist boost? Government in desperate need of tax revenue? The war on drugs was unwinnable far easy to make it legal and control the manufacturing process. You'd need a cocktail of heroin, cannabis and cocaine to make a trip to Ireland bearable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hovis Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Your experience of drug users will be far more than you realise. And you will not have a problem with the majority of them - as you won't even know they take drugs and don't show any negative effects to you. I meant the drugs not the users. Although the effects are not as minimal as you suggest; I reckon I could pick out with a reasonable degree of accuracy the cannabis users at work, all of whom will be light users. As I can pick out the binge drinkers. There are enough clues there. I don't disapprove of either lot and am in the latter group anyway. My particular bete noir is the heavy cannabis use who IME is a total waste of space and you may as well bury them now rather than let them waste forty years waiting for it while they bore everybody to tears whilst simultaneously thinking that they're really cool, interesting and superior. And giggle like a five year old when they mention the "munchies". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Everyone can smoke a joint occasionally and have a few beers, as far as I am concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail the Tripod Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 My particular bete noir is the heavy cannabis use who IME is a total waste of space and you may as well bury them now rather than let them waste forty years waiting for it while they bore everybody to tears whilst simultaneously thinking that they're really cool, interesting and superior. And giggle like a five year old when they mention the "munchies". Is that the drugs or the people though. I feel very much the same about the uber-keen cyclists at work. Endlessly yapping on about carbon fibre frames and disc brakes vs rim brakes, and the cycle clothing fashion is hideous! There's nothing wrong with cycling but there is something wrong when it dominates your life to the extent that everything else is pushed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hovis Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Is that the drugs or the people though. I feel very much the same about the uber-keen cyclists at work. Endlessly yapping on about carbon fibre frames and disc brakes vs rim brakes, and the cycle clothing fashion is hideous! There's nothing wrong with cycling but there is something wrong when it dominates your life to the extent that everything else is pushed out. You're probably right that it's the people. I like football (don't mention it here much as there are specific forums) but I have known total football obsessives who bore the pants off me such that I dread bumping into them on a Monday morning as it will be a half hour "kick every ball" rerun of a game between two teams I don't support. There was a nightmare situation at one user group I was at where two of the senior guys happened to support the same small team and would talk about in the meeting presumably because they thought other people would be interested. As it was only very three months and informal I don't think anybody ever said anything but there were plenty of looks. It's that cliquey thing of the obsessive who thinks that their obsession makes them superior when actually people think they're prats. Fortunately I know normal cyclists rather than the uber-keen ones you mention; they're happy to give advice or talk about a race if people ask but they don't bore on about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 I meant the drugs not the users. Although the effects are not as minimal as you suggest; I reckon I could pick out with a reasonable degree of accuracy the cannabis users at work, all of whom will be light users. As I can pick out the binge drinkers. There are enough clues there. I don't disapprove of either lot and am in the latter group anyway. My particular bete noir is the heavy cannabis use who IME is a total waste of space and you may as well bury them now rather than let them waste forty years waiting for it while they bore everybody to tears whilst simultaneously thinking that they're really cool, interesting and superior. And giggle like a five year old when they mention the "munchies". But you are only going by who you think are the ones that fit into the categories you put them in. You dont know. You could be completely wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hovis Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 But you are only going by who you think are the ones that fit into the categories you put them in. You dont know. You could be completely wrong. I could be completely right. Pointless argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 I could be completely right. Pointless argument. Yes but thats the point. There is no argument - because there are no facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hovis Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Yes but thats the point. There is no argument - because there are no facts. I base my assessment on having worked in a lot of offices and got to know people well (at which point they tell you these things), so you identify a type who is likely to be a drug user as one who is likely to be, say, a labour voter. Surely everybody reads people in this way? The facts are there when you find out but if you regard everybody as a tabula rasa until you know something factual about them then you will have a very odd interplay with other people. You are being overly defensive here. Whilst I always keep my opinions about other people's habits to myself in real life I would suggest that this is because you do take drugs but as far as you are concerned it has no obvious effects and nobody could tab you as a user. I however think that people do but are not concerned about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Good Lord! In one office I worked at a colleague assumed I was a vegetarian. Purely because I was dressed as a carrot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail the Tripod Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Good Lord! In one office I worked at a colleague assumed I was a vegetarian. Purely because I was dressed as a carrot! The cannibal carrots were my favourite "Get Stuffed" presenters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 The cannibal carrots were my favourite "Get Stuffed" presenters. If you ever watched the "Lexx" series circa 1999-2000, there are robot carrots which get in through your anus and take over your mind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fully Detached Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 I don't disapprove of either lot and am in the latter group anyway. My particular bete noir is the heavy cannabis use who IME is a total waste of space and you may as well bury them now rather than let them waste forty years waiting for it while they bore everybody to tears whilst simultaneously thinking that they're really cool, interesting and superior. And giggle like a five year old when they mention the "munchies". What specifically about their conversations or actions cause you to feel this way about them? If there's a "type" that usually prompts this reaction in you, there must be some common denominators that you can specify? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 I base my assessment on having worked in a lot of offices and got to know people well (at which point they tell you these things), so you identify a type who is likely to be a drug user as one who is likely to be, say, a labour voter. Surely everybody reads people in this way? The facts are there when you find out but if you regard everybody as a tabula rasa until you know something factual about them then you will have a very odd interplay with other people. You are being overly defensive here. Whilst I always keep my opinions about other people's habits to myself in real life I would suggest that this is because you do take drugs but as far as you are concerned it has no obvious effects and nobody could tab you as a user. I however think that people do but are not concerned about it. No not being defensive - just pointing out that basing logic on guesswork - with no actual proof as to whether you are right or wrong - is a risky business !! I work in a lot of offices - and I agree there are certain people where you can get a 'shiff' of them being involved in this or that. HOWEVER - it is certainly not infallibl. The only reason the folk in my office know I Love a serious bevvy - is my usuall Friday goodbye is "I am off now to get smashed all weekend" - or similar. Without that - I really dont think they would have a clue. As I dont drink during the week - and all my 'hints' show a proper healthy lifestyle/diet etc.. If I had to guess who in my team did coke at the weekend - and who didnt - with no actual 'evidence' - I would give myself a decent chance of getting a fair amount correct. However I would expect to be very surpised by many as well. Just saying your guesswork - is based on assumptions - that are yet to be proven !! Now if these assumptions have been proven correct to you over and over again then fair enough. But I dont think thats what you are saying ? A comparison would be to sit in the office and have a guess at what burds are up for serious filthy action at the weekend. I bet the vast majority of blokes, whether pervs themselves or not - would get it very very wrong. I know I have - and I am a deviant !! I have been with burds and thought here we go - and then its dull as ******. And others where jesus ****** I didnt expect that coming !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 No not being defensive - just pointing out that basing logic on guesswork - with no actual proof as to whether you are right or wrong - is a risky business !! I work in a lot of offices - and I agree there are certain people where you can get a 'shiff' of them being involved in this or that. HOWEVER - it is I know I have - and I am a deviant !! I have been with burds and thought here we go - and then its dull as ******. And others where jesus ****** I didnt expect that coming !! I quite like Scottish ladies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 I quite like Scottish ladies. Massive cans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long time lurking Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 No not being defensive - just pointing out that basing logic on guesswork - with no actual proof as to whether you are right or wrong - is a risky business !! I work in a lot of offices - and I agree there are certain people where you can get a 'shiff' of them being involved in this or that. HOWEVER - it is certainly not infallibl. The only reason the folk in my office know I Love a serious bevvy - is my usuall Friday goodbye is "I am off now to get smashed all weekend" - or similar. Without that - I really dont think they would have a clue. As I dont drink during the week - and all my 'hints' show a proper healthy lifestyle/diet etc.. If I had to guess who in my team did coke at the weekend - and who didnt - with no actual 'evidence' - I would give myself a decent chance of getting a fair amount correct. However I would expect to be very surpised by many as well. Just saying your guesswork - is based on assumptions - that are yet to be proven !! Now if these assumptions have been proven correct to you over and over again then fair enough. But I dont think thats what you are saying ? A comparison would be to sit in the office and have a guess at what burds are up for serious filthy action at the weekend. I bet the vast majority of blokes, whether pervs themselves or not - would get it very very wrong. I know I have - and I am a deviant !! I have been with burds and thought here we go - and then its dull as ******. And others where jesus ****** I didnt expect that coming !! That can lead to problems ,ABC is always the best route assume nothing believe nothing confirm every thing, before you become judge jury and executioner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hovis Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 That can lead to problems ,ABC is always the best route assume nothing believe nothing confirm every thing, before you become judge jury and executioner What do you think I'm doing? Sacking anybody I think may have a drug habit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 What do you think I'm doing? Sacking anybody I think may have a drug habit? How about a Friday afternoon test ? Head round all the suspects and ask them outright - then let us know your score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hovis Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 How about a Friday afternoon test ? Head round all the suspects and ask them outright - then let us know your score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Office nights out / Christmas parties are always the easiest places to work out the coke fiends. If you have ever done it yourself - the signs are not exactly subtle ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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