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Dave Beans

Rep. Ireland To Decriminalise Heroin, Cannabis & Cocaine For Personal Use

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I personally have no problem with "recreational drug use". It's OK to get a bit bonged up occasionally!

Alcohol, cigs, and coffee are not illegal!

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In my usual way of eventually developing an extreme view on most subjects, I've now managed to work my up to actively hating any kind of prohibitionist. Ultimately what they support is forcing me to pay tax through the threat of state violence, so they can use the money to pay the police to stop me using substances I enjoy with the threat of more state violence.

If you're in any way in favour of drug prohibition, you are, as far as I'm concerned, a complete arsehole.

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In my usual way of eventually developing an extreme view on most subjects, I've now managed to work my up to actively hating any kind of prohibitionist. Ultimately what they support is forcing me to pay tax through the threat of state violence, so they can use the money to pay the police to stop me using substances I enjoy with the threat of more state violence.

If you're in any way in favour of drug prohibition, you are, as far as I'm concerned, a complete arsehole.

Don't you drive a bus? :huh:

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Not anymore, he failed the drug test... :rolleyes:

I'm sure he takes his work more seriously than to do that!

When in London, I was offered so many "fragrant nose powders", it's amazing I still have a nose left!

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If this puts all the dealers and gangsters out of business then you can see finally see this happening here, well done the south for coming up with this.

The flood of "legal highs" makes it all a bit of a nonsense anyway.

My experience of drug users means I would like the whole lot not to exist; but I'm not confusing that with banning them because all the resource that went into the US's "war on drugs" still failed.

Prohibition has been given every chance to work IMHO and it has been a failure; so I am now a reluctant advocate of limited legalisation as we see here.

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My experience of drug users means I would like the whole lot not to exist

Your experience of drug users will be far more than you realise. And you will not have a problem with the majority of them - as you won't even know they take drugs and don't show any negative effects to you.

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So Republic of Ireland about to get a huge tourist boost?

Government in desperate need of tax revenue? The war on drugs was unwinnable far easy to make it legal and control the manufacturing process.

Supply is still illegal.

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If you're in any way in favour of drug prohibition, you are, as far as I'm concerned, a complete arsehole.

Legalise it all but give up any right to drive any vehicles if you use.

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My initial response is as yours. However, I also think there are some key unknowns and risks.

We say that 'prohibition does not work'. Of course the counter factual is still out there. The only thing we can say is that prohibition has been unable to stop all drug use and that organised crime is attracted to the profits caused by prohibition and the failure to tax at a level. The problem with outsized profits is that they can lead to political capture. We immediately think of south america and the like but of course there is always the Kennedy clan in the USA that grew out of liquor running. In fact it is strongly rumoured that organised crime has been running America in the shadows ever since that time.

On the other side of the ledger we have the example of the British enforced opium trade. Well, we didn't force it as such, we fought a war and humiliated an ancient power that tried to bring in prohibition. The statistics regarding opium addiction and sloth are quite shocking really which brings us to another issue....that of 'free choice'. EDIT: This is an interesting read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_opium_in_China

As a former tobacco addict I greatly regretted ever taking up the habit and it was probably the hardest thing I ever did was to give it up I was so addicted. I wish I'd known before I started. And that statement could be one that is ready to befall millions of people if we ever give the major manufacturers the freedom to offer controlled drugs. Perhaps even add it to our foodstuffs. A government hungry for taxes and in the pay of dubiou concerns could well go down that route.

So while my initial instincts are against prohibition I would hate my young daughter to ever make the mistake of becoming addicted. Yes, you could say that part of my job as a parent is to scare the beejesus out of them and for her to exercise free choice....but leaving my family aside, there are plenty of families who do not have a great education, whose lives are pretty haphazard - many of them take drugs now, but I'm sure it would be only the tip of the iceberg should the situation change.

Portugal...(that's one every cites, but other countries are scared (bar Ireland, and the odd US state) to follow their lead)...

http://mic.com/articles/110344/14-years-after-portugal-decriminalized-all-drugs-here-s-what-s-happening

General drug use is down, 14 years after treating addicts not as criminals, but as having a health issue..

Its a bit strange Ireland are taking the lead...illegal to have an abortion, but can't be locked up for drug possession..

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As a former tobacco addict I greatly regretted ever taking up the habit and it was probably the hardest thing I ever did was to give it up I was so addicted. I wish I'd known before I started. And that statement could be one that is ready to befall millions of people if we ever give the major manufacturers the freedom to offer controlled drugs. Perhaps even add it to our foodstuffs. A government hungry for taxes and in the pay of dubious concerns could well go down that route.

Is there any good evidence to suggest that any of these controlled drugs is physically addictive to a degree comparable to cigarettes? As far as I'm aware cigarettes are far, far more addictive than anything else, and they are legal anyway.

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Portugal...(that's one every cites, but other countries are scared (bar Ireland, and the odd US state) to follow their lead)...

http://mic.com/articles/110344/14-years-after-portugal-decriminalized-all-drugs-here-s-what-s-happening

General drug use is down, 14 years after treating addicts not as criminals, but as having a health issue..

Its a bit strange Ireland are taking the lead...illegal to have an abortion, but can't be locked up for drug possession..

I think the odd US state is a bit of an understatement

Some pending and quite a few more due to vote on the subject

http://norml.org/aboutmarijuana/item/states-that-have-decriminalized

As for the ROI and why now,i think they have real concerns /problems with the legal high market ,an dare i say some common sense

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Is there any good evidence to suggest that any of these controlled drugs is physically addictive to a degree comparable to cigarettes? As far as I'm aware cigarettes are far, far more addictive than anything else, and they are legal anyway.

I don't know about research evidence but I have an anecdotal.

After becoming addicted to alcohol I attended AA for a few years from age 32 which got be on the path to long term sobriety. I attended many meetings and heard a lot about people's experiences. Anytime other addictions were mentioned it was agreed by those with experience of heroin, alcohol and tobacco addictions that heroin was the 'easiest' addiction to break, alcohol really tough and tobacco really really tough.

In addition a lot of people started smoking when they gave up alcohol and some struggled and failed to give it up.

My view is that regardless of the drug there will always be people who become addicted. I'd like to see hard hitting public health education about drug/alcohol addiction (can't see that happening!) and how it blights lives along with legalisation so that all drugs can be taxed.

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Whenever I hear the term 'the war on drugs' it always brings to mind one of the rules stated by Sun Tzu in The Art of War: Never engage in a battle that you know you cannot win.

This 'war' is clearly unwinnable, if the definintion of 'win' is that no-one uses heroin or cannabis, etc. anymore.

So good luck to the ROI for trying a different policy, like Portugal did.

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As a former tobacco addict I greatly regretted ever taking up the habit and it was probably the hardest thing I ever did was to give it up I was so addicted. I wish I'd known before I started. And that statement could be one that is ready to befall millions of people if we ever give the major manufacturers the freedom to offer controlled drugs. Perhaps even add it to our foodstuffs. A government hungry for taxes and in the pay of dubious concerns could well go down that route.

So while my initial instincts are against prohibition I would hate my young daughter to ever make the mistake of becoming addicted. Yes, you could say that part of my job as a parent is to scare the beejesus out of her and for her to exercise free choice....but leaving my family aside, there are plenty of families who do not have a great education, whose lives are pretty haphazard - many of them take drugs now, but I'm sure it would be only the tip of the iceberg should the situation change.

EDI2: I think I've argued my way to being be an 'arsehole'.

No not at all. Addiction is horrible. I'm in no mood to mess about here; I'm an alcoholic and I wake up most mornings wishing that I wasn't.

But I only drink because I need a bit of escapist euphoria in my life. Can't legally get it from Coke, E, Amphetamines and the like, so I drink, and have found like most legal high seekers that you have to do more and more to get the same kick.

I'd be quite happy to never touch another drop of booze again if I could look forward to dropping some E at the end of a 5 day working week. But prohibitionists prevent that.

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