Inside Track Pre-seminar In Manchester Last Night

[Converted Lurker]

I`ll post a full report once I get time, approx. 50 attended, I`ve never been sold to so badly, I was more polished selling Datsuns 20 years ago! and I could close. This guy was awful. A fair proportion of the audience was sceptical, 2 plants next to me, far too interested from the minute the guy opened his mouth. His basic pitch came down to this..the off plan BTL flats they promote will double in value over the next 5-6 years, so get your skates on They will rise in value due to SIPPS! low interest rates, high employment, and low inflation and adoption of the Euro..endless references to Ireland with a nice zenaphobic touch that they were "coming over here to take your property" huh ?? He suggested that they all should get with the herd. His list of contradictions were endless, I have to say most of the audience appeared potless and clueless, my view is that some, perhaps 4, will buy the course, then not invest in property because they won`t have the financial wearwithall.

After 2 hours I got up and left, there was another hour left apparently, chased through the lobby of the hotel by one of his minions who blurted something about special deal on the course if I buddied up with one of the other delegates In effect the course cost would be halved to 2K..desperate times desperate measures. Driving back I began to feel my incredulity turn to anger..these guys are scum..they know full well they are selling fresh air :angry:

The pony tailed one gave a brief intro. he has 1.7mil worth of property with 400K equity What`s that 20%? Small wonder he looks like he has a crack habit, 1.3mil worth of debt as he watches his equity vapourise..smart move.

BTW, this one is for Bubb and the other STR guys if he`s listening/watching, you should "never ever never ever sell an investment property" apparently

[OnlyMe]

I take it you weren't impressed then?

[Mushroom]

"Sell the sizzle".

[rockdoctor]

Well, he attended the seminar.

I think he sounds disappointed.

[Converted Lurker]

I take it you weren't impressed then?

He saw me shake my head a couple of times, I actually put my head in my hands once and adopted the crash position When I stood up to leave I expected a snide remark, that would have been my personal trigger to let go :angry: However, I`ll get that chance when I attend the next one in Cheshire Oaks, I`m curious to see what he attempts in the final hour.

Half expected to be led away by a couple of bouncers after I filled in the form at registration though Mike, "ah lurker we`ve been expecting you"

"Sell the sizzle".

No steak to come as the main course, just rotten mutton

[Sledgehead]

I have to say most of the audience appeared potless and clueless,

If only you'd have transalated that into a question at the Inside Track meet:

"Given that only the potless are cluless enough to fall for your sales pitch, how's business?"

[eric pebble]

I`ll post a full report once I get time, approx. 50 attended, I`ve never been sold to so badly, I was more polished selling Datsuns 20 years ago! and I could close. This guy was awful. A fair proportion of the audience was sceptical, 2 plants next to me, far too interested from the minute the guy opened his mouth. His basic pitch came down to this..the off plan BTL flats they promote will double in value over the next 5-6 years, so get your skates on They will rise in value due to SIPPS! low interest rates, high employment, and low inflation and adoption of the Euro..endless references to Ireland with a nice zenaphobic touch that they were "coming over here to take your property" huh ?? He suggested that they all should get with the herd. His list of contradictions were endless, I have to say most of the audience appeared potless and clueless, my view is that some, perhaps 4, will buy the course, then not invest in property because they won`t have the financial wearwithall.

After 2 hours I got up and left, there was another hour left apparently, chased through the lobby of the hotel by one of his minions who blurted something about special deal on the course if I buddied up with one of the other delegates In effect the course cost would be halved to 2K..desperate times desperate measures. Driving back I began to feel my incredulity turn to anger..these guys are scum..they know full well they are selling fresh air :angry:

The pony tailed one gave a brief intro. he has 1.7mil worth of property with 400K equity What`s that 20%? Small wonder he looks like he has a crack habit, 1.3mil worth of debt as he watches his equity vapourise..smart move.

BTW, this one is for Bubb and the other STR guys if he`s listening/watching, you should "never ever never ever sell an investment property" apparently

Great stuff Converted Lurker!! : Really look forward to your more detailed forthcoming report.

I ran into 2 "aquaintances" in the "Property Business" [arff arff!!] this weekend;

1. EA Admin Assistant in C London - says there are vast vast numbers of morons who are trying to sell 1-2 bed basement "flats" or shoeboxes for £450-500k in W London - and they are getting seriously agressive with EA's for not selling them !??!!!! Arf. Arff....!

2. A guy who has been in the Property "Game" for 10 years - who said to me, basically - the market is stuffed - and the VI's PR machine is trying and trying and trying Sooooo desperately to tell us all otherwise - pumping out pure drivel about the "recovering" market etc etc,; In reality, there are literally hundreds of thousands if not millions of properties all over the UK which are just NOT SELLING - and owners are getting all uppetty and annoyed......... and so upset when told they are not worth what they THINK they are......... and that they have to SLASH their prices..... Many of them have just taken them off the market! ... in a sort of tiz..... "OK then, I won't sell it": - OK then - DON'T !!!

[newaccount99]

I went to one about 18mths ago for a giggle. Sounds like they haven't improved the pitch too much since then.

Yeah I reckon there was at least four plants in the one I attended.....they were just toooo quick to sign-up for my liking.

Highlights I remember:

1) One lucky couple "winning" the inside track video pack "worth £1000".

2) Being informed that MEW "is a tax loophole, a tax-free directors dividend through property capital appreciation"

3) The single mother Insider tracker giving stories of her success despite having CCJ's. (To set a "look anyone can do it" scene)

4) The retired, meek, civil servant accountant giving stories of his armchair success. (To set a "It's a good, safe and reliable investment vehicle" scene).

[Converted Lurker]

Great stuff Converted Lurker!! : Really look forward to your more detailed forthcoming report.

I ran into 2 "aquaintances" in the "Property Business" [arff arff!!] this weekend;

1. EA Admin Assistant in C London - says there are vast vast numbers of morons who are trying to sell 1-2 bed basement "flats" or shoeboxes for £450-500k in W London - and they are getting seriously agressive with EA's for not selling them !??!!!! Arf. Arff....!

2. A guy who has been in the Property "Game" for 10 years - who said to me, basically - the market is stuffed - and the VI's PR machine is trying and trying and trying Sooooo desperately to tell us all otherwise - pumping out pure drivel about the "recovering" market etc etc,; In reality, there are literally hundreds of thousands if not millions of properties all over the UK which are just NOT SELLING - and owners are getting all uppetty and annoyed......... and so upset when told they are not worth what they THINK they are......... and that they have to SLASH their prices..... Many of them have just taken them off the market! ... in a sort of tiz..... "OK then, I won't sell it": - OK then - DON'T !!!

Thanks Eric, I`m really looking forward to the next meeting

[Guest]

blurted something about special deal on the course if I buddied up with one of the other delegates In effect the course cost would be halved to 2K..desperate times desperate measures.

This is EXACTLY what happened to my father at the seminar preliminary meeting. Some guy came up to him and offered to pay half. Just like that.

This is what the end-game looks like, folks. I hope we can all go back to doing something real for a living now.

[Converted Lurker]

This is EXACTLY what happened to my father at the seminar preliminary meeting. Some guy came up to him and offered to pay half. Just like that.

This is what the end-game looks like, folks. I hope we can all go back to doing something real for a living now.

These guys do not give a flying re. the future performance of the market, they want your 4k cash now. Think about it, they hold perhaps 10 seminars a week, 50 attend each. If they close 10% that`s 50 x 4K=220K per week. That`s some serious dosh and that`s all they`re interested in. It reminded me of the Simpsons episode were the salesman was decrying pyramid schemes and instead selling his trapazoid plan instead!

I hope your Dad didn`t succumb

[right_freds_dead]

its MLM but without any product.

excellent. this is always one of the four horsemen of the economic apocalypse.

pyramid schemes.

THINK. whenever theres a downturn these MLM companies pop out of the woodwork. kirby vacuums. water filters. telesales marketing. 10 managers needed for american electronics company OTE 18 million pounds per day....

nothing ever changes.

[Guest]

Still buyin' ya farm, freds?

[Converted Lurker]

I went to one about 18mths ago for a giggle. Sounds like they haven't improved the pitch too much since then.

Yeah I reckon there was at least four plants in the one I attended.....they were just toooo quick to sign-up for my liking.

Highlights I remember:

1) One lucky couple "winning" the inside track video pack "worth £1000".

2) Being informed that MEW "is a tax loophole, a tax-free directors dividend through property capital appreciation"

3) The single mother Insider tracker giving stories of her success despite having CCJ's. (To set a "look anyone can do it" scene)

4) The retired, meek, civil servant accountant giving stories of his armchair success. (To set a "It's a good, safe and reliable investment vehicle" scene).

You`ve reminded me of another issue, he publically stated that there was no liability on BTL, it was tax free

[Goat]

You`ve reminded me of another issue, he publically stated that there was no liability on BTL, it was tax free

Well he's right, theres no tax to pay when your loosing money!

[Converted Lurker]

Well he's right, theres no tax to pay when your loosing money!

and there`s more...he kept barking on re. "using other peoples money" the banks money, how Inside Track would help you unlock the mysteries of the banking world, how 1mil debt on 1.5mil property was good debt. He also used a graph on his amateurish slide show showing nearly straight line growth in property values! I kid you not, no time scale on one axis, or value on another, just this line with a couple of kinks

I`ve just thought of another cracker, I very nearly burst out laughing at this point, he asked how much a family car was, about 10K..."now that`s bad debt if you get it on finance, `cos the minute you drive the car away its worth 8k" then he says "Not like buying a new build BTL flat!" and I`m thinking yes it is it`s exactly the same you knob-ed, newbuilds lose value especially in a static market"

He also stated that IT buy the surplus stuff of the developer from time to time "because the developer will be prepared to take a small hit on their remaining units to go on to build their next development"...er..oops..I`ll wait for the new shiny one then eh and does that not suggest over development?

"No such thing as over development, UK plc needs to build 1mil new houses, it`s a scarce commodity that`s why it keeps going up in value, 4.2 people used to live in a dwelling now it`s 2.2, that proves it"

Edited December 6, 2005 by Converted Lurker

[Guest]

just this line with a couple of kinks

So it's as bad as the ODPM house price graph in Charlie's recent credit report.

The graph went up from 1970 to £66K at 1989. Then it went horizontal until 1996. Then it went up.

I believe a pre-requisite for negative equity is to have a fall in prices?

[foxytrader]

So it's as bad as the ODPM house price graph in Charlie's recent credit report.

The graph went up from 1970 to £66K at 1989. Then it went horizontal until 1996. Then it went up.

I believe a pre-requisite for negative equity is to have a fall in prices?

No just valuations.

[dogbox]

My thread today 'lender pulls plug on B2L newbuild' describes the adventures of a new B2L I met. Hes been sucked - into an investment package selling flats near the Olyimpic area overlooking a canal.

He has just paid £1000 and will pay a further £5000 on completion for a B2L flat @ £270000, rent guaranteed - was shown lists of tennants waiting, can sell and realise a guaranteed £20000 profit in 2 months (before completion) etc etc!

Obviously a giant con. The guy in question hasnt done any of his own homework he just wnats to beleive he can make guaranteed money with no effort. He beleives there are lists of tennants waiting, but Im sure in this area there must be loads of empty stock.

He was even shown the brochure which states the price will double in the next 4 years.

The real clincher was that the saleman took him to his own home to 'sign - up'. He said 'if Im stitching you - up, why would I show you where I live'?. I reckon he just rents the place ready for the big - off.

[Michael]

any deal stating ''1st year's rent paid''......................is a de facto 5% reduction in price as well as beneficial in terms of cashflow like TTRTR's ''gifted deposit'' idea........................

Problem is the market is much more than 5% overvalued even for conventional properties...

New build in grotty area masquerading as yuppy flats maybe 50% overvalued!

Even TTRTR and LL would tell you to steer well clear of this rubbish!........................................

Edited December 6, 2005 by Michael

[Converted Lurker]

So it's as bad as the ODPM house price graph in Charlie's recent credit report.

The graph went up from 1970 to £66K at 1989. Then it went horizontal until 1996. Then it went up.

I believe a pre-requisite for negative equity is to have a fall in prices?

Just saw Donnie Darko`s avatar which made me recollect something else the guy said in a "Jim Cunningham" style (that`ll be lost on you if you havn`t seen the movie). He suggested that the only reason for not investing was fear and that you needed to work on the fear that had prevented you from revealing your true potential :angry:

[eric pebble]

Thanks Eric, I`m really looking forward to the next meeting

Keep us posted!!! What a farce!!!! It's DESPERATION -- like those confidence tricksters on Oxford Street!!!

[Jason]

I`ll post a full report once I get time, approx. 50 attended, I`ve never been sold to so badly, I was more polished selling Datsuns 20 years ago! and I could close. This guy was awful. A fair proportion of the audience was sceptical, 2 plants next to me, far too interested from the minute the guy opened his mouth. His basic pitch came down to this..the off plan BTL flats they promote will double in value over the next 5-6 years, so get your skates on They will rise in value due to SIPPS! low interest rates, high employment, and low inflation and adoption of the Euro..endless references to Ireland with a nice zenaphobic touch that they were "coming over here to take your property" huh ?? He suggested that they all should get with the herd. His list of contradictions were endless, I have to say most of the audience appeared potless and clueless, my view is that some, perhaps 4, will buy the course, then not invest in property because they won`t have the financial wearwithall.

After 2 hours I got up and left, there was another hour left apparently, chased through the lobby of the hotel by one of his minions who blurted something about special deal on the course if I buddied up with one of the other delegates In effect the course cost would be halved to 2K..desperate times desperate measures. Driving back I began to feel my incredulity turn to anger..these guys are scum..they know full well they are selling fresh air :angry:

The pony tailed one gave a brief intro. he has 1.7mil worth of property with 400K equity What`s that 20%? Small wonder he looks like he has a crack habit, 1.3mil worth of debt as he watches his equity vapourise..smart move.

BTW, this one is for Bubb and the other STR guys if he`s listening/watching, you should "never ever never ever sell an investment property" apparently

Did you trip him up over SIPPS? As property will no longer be tax excempt!

Edit: I just read in another post you wern't aware at the time.

I would of loved to see them squirm out of that! Can you wear a camera next time?

Edited December 6, 2005 by Jason

[Converted Lurker]

Did you trip him up over SIPPS? As property will no longer be tax excempt!

Edit: I just read in another post you wern't aware at the time.

I would of loved to see them squirm out of that! Can you wear a camera next time?

Jason, seriously, this time it was a recci mission, next time it`s war. By the time I was on the motorway I was seething. He/they are clever, think back to schooldays (longer for me than you) you have a well behaved class, he knew that, therefore he kept implying that anyone who didn`t agree with him was wrong and could leave. I sat there..and took it..I desperately wanted to tell him what a knob-ed he was, but needed to hear it all..well the first two hours anyhow.

What with SIPPS, stamp duty on connected sales, news that no-one will finance off plan, all in the past 7 days, they are finished. I`m not joking when I say this, in order to de-bunk this charlatan properly next time I may take some help

[Jason]

Jason, seriously, this time it was a recci mission, next time it`s war. By the time I was on the motorway I was seething. He/they are clever, think back to schooldays (longer for me than you) you have a well behaved class, he knew that, therefore he kept implying that anyone who didn`t agree with him was wrong and could leave. I sat there..and took it..I desperately wanted to tell him what a knob-ed he was, but needed to hear it all..well the first two hours anyhow.

What with SIPPS, stamp duty on connected sales, news that no-one will finance off plan, all in the past 7 days, they are finished. I`m not joking when I say this, in order to de-bunk this charlatan properly next time I may take some help

I thought about going to one of these things (not specific property seminar) to improve my assertiveness.

Maybe I'll rendezvous with you there!