Refused A Mortgage Under The 'new Rules'

[TheCountOfNowhere]

Graphs like that are for purely for consumption by VI, and to champion "recovery" (higher prices) by another subset of VI. For me it doesn't reflect what's happening. Also as CoTB helped me out with, (now = Creation Out Of Nothing ?), that's Greater Manchester. Forgive me for not wanting to buy in Salford, Whalley Range, Cheetham Hill, Miles Platting, ect, which still look over-valued.

South Manchester may have 'some' reasonable correction in flats, but houses entirely different. Pretend and dismiss it has not been happening all you like.

You only have to check Sold Prices on Rightmove, and ignore flats. House prices have been shooting up. Not unusual for a landlord to buy at a silly high price, have a go at renting it out, then soon after, sell it on and another landlord comes in and buys it at £40K+ more. It's entirely new peaks here Count.

And yes, these are some of the fair-to-average-to-desirable areas people want to live... so what?

Altrincham: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detail.html?country=england&locationIdentifier=REGION%5E33&searchLocation=Altrincham

Wilmslow: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detail.html?country=england&locationIdentifier=REGION%5E1456&searchLocation=Wilmslow

Didsbury (apartment heavy but still mostly higher sold prices than not on 2006/07): http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detail.html?country=england&locationIdentifier=REGION%5E8171&searchLocation=Didsbury

Could go on and on. Keep thinking there has been a crash... no reflation outside of London and SE, when there's only been a bigger house price bubble since 2007 in many areas.

strange that you choose to ignore one set of actual sales and pick the estate agent backed rightmove results.

you are not making sense.

is south Manchester not where the luvvies from the bbc have relocated for? read as...idiots from London paid by the public paying over the odds for houses and pricing out locals...maybe not really a measure of what's happening outside of London.

i just dont see your Manchester is suffering raging hpi...if it were the land registry would reflect it...if one area is booming and the rest aren't i reckon those buying into the localized boom will loose out big time. looking at the actual figures...sales volumes are dropping and since Christmas and the end of fls prices are falling again quickly...the same thing is happening in northampton.

[Venger]

Prices move at the margin. There has been little-to-no effect from BBCers coming up from London. It's a much wider reflation phenomenon than that.

You present it from just being BBCers paying these prices... there is just no way. On number of houses sold alone. BBC Londeners haven't invaded the area.

I chose the Rightmove Sold Prices for it also gives pictures of the properties, in many instances, and neatly and conveniently groups together previous years sold prices, for the same property (where data is available)... to immediately compare gains (and occasional losses) on any property.

Rather than on other Sold Price websites, where you see no.38 sold recently, then have to scroll down page, and click through more pages to see the price/date when it last sold before that.

It's Rightmove Sold Prices... but not data compiled by them. It's sourced from the Land Registry.

Source acknowledgement: House price data produced by Land Registry

This material was last updated on 01 May 2014. It covers the period from 03 January 1995 to 31 March 2014.

© Crown copyright material is reproduced with the permission of Land Registry under delegated authority from the Controller of HMSO.

If you have found an error with the data please contact Her Majesty's Land Registry (HMLR)

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

strange that you choose to ignore one set of actual sales and pick the estate agent backed rightmove results.

you are not making sense.

is south Manchester not where the luvvies from the bbc have relocated for? read as...idiots from London paid by the public paying over the odds for houses and pricing out locals...maybe not really a measure of what's happening outside of London.

i just dont see your Manchester is suffering raging hpi...if it were the land registry would reflect it...if one area is booming and the rest aren't i reckon those buying into the localized boom will loose out big time. looking at the actual figures...sales volumes are dropping and since Christmas and the end of fls prices are falling again quickly...the same thing is happening in northampton.

Those "estate agent backed results" are sold prices from the land registry. And by localised, Altrincham is a town of 40,000 people.

I have made 3 sealed bid, over asking price offers in the past month or so and have been nowhere near the accepted offers. Prime, for this is what they are buying, is untouched and going to the moon.

Some people think the regions will rise when london finally tanks. What I'm seeing, there are numerous areas up here that will shadow London.

I hope to god they do fall with london because price upside from this point makes your eyes water and your balls climb back inside your body.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

Those "estate agent backed results" are sold prices from the land registry. And by localised, Altrincham is a town of 40,000 people.

I have made 3 sealed bid, over asking price offers in the past month or so and have been nowhere near the accepted offers. Prime, for this is what they are buying, is untouched and going to the moon.

Some people think the regions will rise when london finally tanks. What I'm seeing, there are numerous areas up here that will shadow London.

I hope to god they do fall with london because price upside from this point makes your eyes water and your balls climb back inside your body.

ok...estate agent land registry interpreterd data....im not being funny but rightmove is a sales portal for a massive unregulated industry...id be very wary of any data presented to me by a company pushing the most expensive thing most people ever buy! do you know many sales and kettering types? im not overly in love with the land registry by its the best we have.

sealed bids...really? after waiting all that time you are now playing the eas happiest game. have you been scared into buying? you must be desperate so good luck finding somewhere. i personally thing you need to take a step back..ma few deep breaths and look at what you are saying/doing.

everyone's different though...maybe your local eas are honest men who will help you find your dream home and a lovelly low interest 2 year fixed mortgage.

Edited May 10, 2014 by TheCountOfNowhere

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

sealed bids...really? after waiting all that time you are now playing the eas happiest game. have you been scared into buying? you must be desperate so good luck finding somewhere.

I'm not the desperate one.

Clearly though our idea of value is still far below the levels of the even greater mugs. I'm hoping there won't be a next time so we're waiting for a miracle over the next 2 years and will take it from there.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

I'm not the desperate one.

Clearly though our idea of value is still far below the levels of the even greater mugs. I'm hoping there won't be a next time so we're waiting for a miracle over the next 2 years and will take it from there.

fair point...you didn't loose out and win the sealed bid.

i guess you just want a home...until the sentiment changes though it will be impossible to get a fair deal. i think its worth waiting the market was finally loosening up before Fls and it will again.

[JonathanR]

Well here's my anecdote:

Deposit £100k

Looking to borrow £100k @ 2.29% repayment.

Me £35k, her £17.5k

Mortgage refused on the grounds that the wife is still in her probationary period and it would be unaffordable on my salary.

Bit peed off, but if they won't lend to me they aren't going to be lending to anyone else either.

That sounds low, I know someone on £35k with a wife who didn't work and they were offered a £140k mortgage. Have you got any outstanding debts, a car loan etc? It might depend on the individual lender as they set their own criteria. If you go to a new build they offer their own mortgage advisors who can get you the mortgage and they include the stamp duty in the price of the house so you can effectively put the stamp duty on the mortgage.

[AdamoMucci]

apology for my part in that, i was furious at the lies posted and i am sick of certain style of posts, they are all too common and in my opinion transparent.. ill just ignore them from now on. id be obliged though if you could check the ip addresses of various posters on here and act accordingly if anything' untoward is found. thanks.

ps i request you remove the factually inaccurate post that i am currently looking to buy a house. that is untrue as any long kept porter on here knows.

i agree whole heartedly with your points.

however...if i write something untrue about you...should it go unchallenged?

I've said before i dont believe every contrary view is from an e.a. but there are many similar posts that do stand out...trolling is a fact of life.. im happy to listen to facts but this thread is mostly anecdotal nonsense. in fact, this whole thread should be in the anecdotal forum!

Sigh... against my better judgement I will post on this one last time, in case you genuinely missed it, which I doubt you did since someone else also highlighted it for you:

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=197689#entry1102494659

Posted 03 April 2014 - 07:50 AM

I gave up searching for houses on rightmove 2 weeks ago now.

The asking prices were shooting up and it was getting ridiculous, the chances of finding anyone to sell now at a sane price looks to have passed for now, so I just gave up.

How many others have house hunt apathy ?

Clearly from this you were a house hunter until mid-March. You cannot possibly dispute this. When you say "I gave up searching for houses" and ask "how many others have house hunt apathy?" there is only one thing to take from that: until two weeks before the post you were a house hunter but you have now become apathetic. With an "a".

Now everyone here knows that for the longest time you have been calling people morons, EAs etc for even considering the possibility of buying. All the while you were looking for a house yourself! WTF! Whats up with that huh? That is seriously out of order. For you it is correct to buy, but everyone else should hold off and bank on a HPC occurring soon?

I do not think it is unreasonable to point it out, given how aggressive you are towards others who dare to even consider it. Oh, and at the same time as looking to buy a house you were also looking to leave the country ASAP apparently. Thats all I was highlighting. Its not me who has an unclear agenda.

And BTW its very easy to be sure of a HPC when you are telling others to take the gamble and put their lives on hold. I ask you this though, would you bet say 50% of your net worth or of your next ten years income on there being a 20% nominal correction in the next three years? Of course you wouldnt. Nobody here would because we have all seen too much. Not so sure of that crash when it comes to taking a life changing gamble on it are you.

The only (minor) inaccuracy, is that I said you are looking at the moment when, IF you are to be taken at your word now, you were looking up until mid-March. Admittedly I was posting from memory and I turned out to be slightly off. But I regard that "inaccuracy" as immaterial since the principal was still the same up to that date. But others can be the judge of that. And btw why do you think that post of yours stood out in my mind at all? Its because I almost spit out my tea at finding out you were a house hunter..

Thats all. Almost certainly not posting on this idiocy again.

[AdamoMucci]

Seconded. Just looked through the posts 7 Year alludes to. Making the case that some journalism exaggerates the polling around housing supports an HPI narrative, but the truth is the truth regardless of your reasons for pointing it out. The public are very accepting of high house prices - they find them bewildering, and yet they accept them.

AdamoMucci isn't firing up my troll radar yet.

Thanks for the reasoned response.

I would just point out that while my posts about the polling do perhaps support HPI narrative it is because spin/lies/propaganda by politicians/media/lobbyists/activists/"charities" gets me going way more than even housing. And unfortunately those kinds of articles are the easiest to highlight the lies in. There is no grey area, they are either telling the truth or they are lying. And unfortunately, those articles are sympathetic to the housing problem, but the MSM outright taking people for mugs just gets me going way more. I really consider journalists/editors the lowest of the low. The same level as politicians. Which is why I think you see such a back and forth of people and a blurring of the lines between politics and the media. Coulson, Balls etc.. The same types of scumbag work in both industries. I think this is a far bigger concern than any one policy including housing, as I said in the thread:

this polling stuff only really serves to demonstrate how blatently any political or media organisation will lie to your face. Every single one of them shamelessly and outrageously lies and spins to push their own agenda. Shelter, Generation Rent, and im sure every "charity" out there, the Guardian, and of course all the other papers, they are all outright lying to you. On this and on anything that suits them. This is the real scandal here IMO. A much bigger outrage than housing or any other policy area. On this occassion the spin happens to align with the desires of many here. That should not offer any comfort.

BTW I dont think you could ever find an EA to come to a site like this and say some of the things I have said like:

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=197615&view=findpost&p=1102505841

7 Year Itch, on 24 Apr 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

Cheers for doing the digging.

I think we're at least 10 years away from this becoming even a vague election issue. Right now its all about buying not renting that's the hot potato.

It will take 20 years, my lost generation, before the majority twig that we might have a problem.

I agree. Maybe even longer. Sometimes I think it will take an evolution of the species before things change. I think the problem is people dont understand why the current system is unfair. They dont understand the transfer of wealth that is going on. Once you conciously recognise that public spending finds its way into privately owned land it all becomes immedately obvious. But how do you even get people to understand? Nobody is really interested in hearing anything more than soundbites. You cant explain the transfer of wealth, people just switch off.

They dont link high housing costs with negative economic consequesnces either like immobility of labour.

Is an EA going to waste his time to come here and call the current system an unfair transfer of wealth and economically damaging? What possible reason could he have? As you say, there is little in my history to label me a troll. Unfortunately though its starting to look like every non-HPC post needs to contain a paragraph reassuring some people you do not have a hidden agenda. I wish I had the luxury of games like that.

[Bland Unsight]

Is an EA going to waste his time to come here and call the current system an unfair transfer of wealth and economically damaging? What possible reason could he have? As you say, there is little in my history to label me a troll. Unfortunately though its starting to look like every non-HPC post needs to contain a paragraph reassuring some people you do not have a hidden agenda. I wish I had the luxury of games like that.

There is a lot of trolling on here at times, if you hang around you'll see.

If you read comment sections on The Telegraph and The Guardian it is obvious that people who waste time posting on the internet know this forum exists, even if it is presently essentially invisible from a mainstream media perspective in all other respects. Maybe none of the trolls, the clever ones, are EAs - but hang around a bit, getting involved in the to and fro on the board, and you'll get a feel for where this reflex from veteran posters comes from.

There's no way at the get go that other posters can handily distinguish between a crafty troll and a well meaning idiot who has internalised lots of bubble conventional wisdom. You don't strike me as either, but I'm a Johnny Come Lately in the grand scheme of things - some posters have been here for a decade, and that is a long time staring at the face of manifest collective madness.

[Corruption]

BTW I dont think you could ever find an EA to come to a site like this and say some of the things I have said like:

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=197615&view=findpost&p=1102505841

There must be many an estate agent out there who is priced out and as pig sick of rising prices as the rest of us.

30-35K a year or whatever sum they get doesnt go very far in most the country.

[Corruption]

There is a lot of trolling on here at times, if you hang around you'll see.

If you read comment sections on The Telegraph and The Guardian it is obvious that people who waste time posting on the internet know this forum exists, even if it is presently essentially invisible from a mainstream media perspective in all other respects. Maybe none of the trolls, the clever ones, are EAs - but hang around a bit, getting involved in the to and fro on the board, and you'll get a feel for where this reflex from veteran posters comes from.

There's no way at the get go that other posters can handily distinguish between a crafty troll and a well meaning idiot who has internalised lots of bubble conventional wisdom. You don't strike me as either, but I'm a Johnny Come Lately in the grand scheme of things - some posters have been here for a decade, and that is a long time staring at the face of manifest collective madness.

What difference would it make if EA post on here, i wouldnt have thought anyone is going to run out and buy due to what someone said on an internet forum, some people are overly obsessed with this trolling nonsense.

PS I was an EA selling overseas property, or i co-owned the company at least ... and i was more then happy to tell anyone who'd listen (except customers) that there was a huge bubble in pretty much all major locations waiting to blow .. and i was right!

Pity i was wrong about the bubble bursting in the UK, though i never knew of QE, H2B or suspected 5 years of zero percent interest rates.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Corruption

[TheCountOfNowhere]

Sigh... against my better judgement I will post on this one last time, in case you genuinely missed it, which I doubt you did since someone else also highlighted it for you:

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=197689#entry1102494659

Clearly from this you were a house hunter until mid-March. You cannot possibly dispute this. When you say "I gave up searching for houses" and ask "how many others have house hunt apathy?" there is only one thing to take from that: until two weeks before the post you were a house hunter but you have now become apathetic. With an "a".

Now everyone here knows that for the longest time you have been calling people morons, EAs etc for even considering the possibility of buying. All the while you were looking for a house yourself! WTF! Whats up with that huh? That is seriously out of order. For you it is correct to buy, but everyone else should hold off and bank on a HPC occurring soon?

I do not think it is unreasonable to point it out, given how aggressive you are towards others who dare to even consider it. Oh, and at the same time as looking to buy a house you were also looking to leave the country ASAP apparently. Thats all I was highlighting. Its not me who has an unclear agenda.

And BTW its very easy to be sure of a HPC when you are telling others to take the gamble and put their lives on hold. I ask you this though, would you bet say 50% of your net worth or of your next ten years income on there being a 20% nominal correction in the next three years? Of course you wouldnt. Nobody here would because we have all seen too much. Not so sure of that crash when it comes to taking a life changing gamble on it are you.

The only (minor) inaccuracy, is that I said you are looking at the moment when, IF you are to be taken at your word now, you were looking up until mid-March. Admittedly I was posting from memory and I turned out to be slightly off. But I regard that "inaccuracy" as immaterial since the principal was still the same up to that date. But others can be the judge of that. And btw why do you think that post of yours stood out in my mind at all? Its because I almost spit out my tea at finding out you were a house hunter..

Thats all. Almost certainly not posting on this idiocy again.

Funny. Trying to put your incorrect presumptions across as facts and changing what was actually said makes you look more and more like troll. Any normal person would have accepted an apology..admitted they were wrong and moved on.

Id urge anyone reading to consider what your agenda might be.

Edited May 11, 2014 by TheCountOfNowhere

[TheCountOfNowhere]

Thanks for the reasoned response.

I would just point out that while my posts about the polling do perhaps support HPI narrative it is because spin/lies/propaganda by politicians/media/lobbyists/activists/"charities" gets me going way more than even housing. And unfortunately those kinds of articles are the easiest to highlight the lies in. There is no grey area, they are either telling the truth or they are lying. And unfortunately, those articles are sympathetic to the housing problem, but the MSM outright taking people for mugs just gets me going way more. I really consider journalists/editors the lowest of the low. The same level as politicians. Which is why I think you see such a back and forth of people and a blurring of the lines between politics and the media. Coulson, Balls etc.. The same types of scumbag work in both industries. I think this is a far bigger concern than any one policy including housing, as I said in the thread:

BTW I dont think you could ever find an EA to come to a site like this and say some of the things I have said like:

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=197615&view=findpost&p=1102505841

Is an EA going to waste his time to come here and call the current system an unfair transfer of wealth and economically damaging? What possible reason could he have? .

Yes. Typical sales trick, build trust by telling people what they want to here. Reason....fear...hatred...hitting out at a growing band of people sick if the freckles corrupt and stupid being rewarded. Edited May 11, 2014 by TheCountOfNowhere

[dances with sheeple]

What difference would it make if EA post on here, i wouldnt have thought anyone is going to run out and buy due to what someone said on an internet forum, some people are overly obsessed with this trolling nonsense.

PS I was an EA selling overseas property, or i co-owned the company at least ... and i was more then happy to tell anyone who'd listen (except customers) that there was a huge bubble in pretty much all major locations waiting to blow .. and i was right!

Pity i was wrong about the bubble bursting in the UK, though i never knew of QE, H2B or suspected 5 years of zero percent interest rates.

It did burst, and is bursting, that is why all that stuff was pulled out of the hat. How long can they lie to the sheeple who want to believe it can`t burst though, how long can they keep propping things up?

[Wurzel Of Highbridge]

That sounds low, I know someone on £35k with a wife who didn't work and they were offered a £140k mortgage. Have you got any outstanding debts, a car loan etc? It might depend on the individual lender as they set their own criteria. If you go to a new build they offer their own mortgage advisors who can get you the mortgage and they include the stamp duty in the price of the house so you can effectively put the stamp duty on the mortgage.

No debts at all except for post 98 student loan which is taken from my wages with tax etc.

I am going to hold off 6 months as there seems to be a fair amount of reports in the media saying that mortgage amounts are dropping or people can no longer get mortgages. We all know exactly what that means. Also the only mortgage products I would consider is wither 10 year fixed < @ 4% or tracker at <2.5%. I am not interested in applying for 5% mortgage deals as it's much cheaper renting.

[Corruption]

It did burst, and is bursting, that is why all that stuff was pulled out of the hat. How long can they lie to the sheeple who want to believe it can`t burst though, how long can they keep propping things up?

So it must just be my imagination telling me that 200K gets nothing but utter crap like 2 bed falling apart council houses, and flats in East Dorset and West Hampshire.

Prices are effectively what they were in 2007 less the odd bargain (relatively speaking) that could have been bought then.

And the fact you are on here tells me you like the rest of us on is just a proletariat sheeple, no matter how enlightened you claim to be.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Corruption

[dances with sheeple]

So it must just be my imagination telling me that 200K gets nothing but utter crap like 2 bed falling apart council houses, and flats in East Dorset and West Hampshire.

Prices are effectively what they were in 2007 less the odd bargain (relatively speaking) that could have been bought then.

And the fact you are on here tells me you like the rest of us on is just a proletariat sheeple, no matter how enlightened you claim to be.

You can`t sell a house as effectively as you could in 2007 though, at least not where I am, and that is what makes the difference to most sheeple who "bought". We have a bursting bubble being braked hard by government intervention, it is not a Ponzi in full flow any more. All IMO of course, so you believe what you want to believe and make your decisions accordingly.

[Corruption]

You can`t sell a house as effectively as you could in 2007 though, at least not where I am, and that is what makes the difference to most sheeple who "bought". We have a bursting bubble being braked hard by government intervention, it is not a Ponzi in full flow any more. All IMO of course, so you believe what you want to believe and make your decisions accordingly.

Im not selling im buying, prices are pretty much the same or more then in 2007, I wish this wasn't the reality but it is.

The people who arent the sheeple are the ones making the rules. As someone who didnt follow the crowd (the sheeple) and buy 10 years ago i've hardly come out on top against such folk who are now half way through paying off their property.

If we were non sheeple we'd have been that educated and informed we'd have known QE and 0.5 were just around the corner as they were in Japan where they had a similar debt fuelled property bubble.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Corruption

[dances with sheeple]

Im not selling im buying, prices are pretty much the same or more then in 2007, I wish this wasn't the reality but it is.

The people who arent the sheeple are the ones making the rules. As someone who didnt follow the crowd (the sheeple) and buy 10 years ago i've hardly come out on top against such folk who are now half way through paying off their property.

If we were non sheeple we'd have been that educated and informed we'd have known QE and 0.5 were just around the corner as they were in Japan where they had a similar debt fuelled property bubble.

The reality is that rates can only go up, mortgages are harder to get, there are problems in China and the EZ, not to mention a new Cold War taking shape (where U.S economic warfare won`t include worrying about UK sheeple who borrowed 400k plus interest to buy a shite flat) and people can`t afford food let alone pwoperdeee. So in short, it is nothing like 2007, apart from the fact that PTB efforts to suppress rates and keep some oil on the mortgage lending machinery is leading many people to cling to their price delusions. It won`t last IMO.

[Corruption]

The reality is that rates can only go up, mortgages are harder to get, there are problems in China and the EZ, not to mention a new Cold War taking shape (where U.S economic warfare won`t include worrying about UK sheeple who borrowed 400k plus interest to buy a shite flat) and people can`t afford food let alone pwoperdeee. So in short, it is nothing like 2007, apart from the fact that PTB efforts to suppress rates and keep some oil on the mortgage lending machinery is leading many people to cling to their price delusions. It won`t last IMO.

I agree with the last sentence, but its how much longer they can keep the plates spinning. And i cannot wait much longer due to being a parent with a kid starting school in September.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Corruption

[gf3]

No debts at all except for post 98 student loan which is taken from my wages with tax etc.

I am going to hold off 6 months as there seems to be a fair amount of reports in the media saying that mortgage amounts are dropping or people can no longer get mortgages. We all know exactly what that means. Also the only mortgage products I would consider is wither 10 year fixed < @ 4% or tracker at <2.5%. I am not interested in applying for 5% mortgage deals as it's much cheaper renting.

I think I would still see a mortgage broker so you know where you stand. You have time on your hands at the moment to find out.

It's possible a house may come your way and you will have a short time to react. It's good to be prepared.

I would like to congratulate you on your choice of mortgages. I am a great fan of life time trackers but can see why some one would go for a 10 fix.

5 year fix is too short to be of any use. and SVR is the rate they think it should be. you don't want to go there.

[Wurzel Of Highbridge]

The last mortgage we had was a NRAM together mortgage, that reverted to SVR since we no longer wanted to live in that house or part of the country we sold up. That mortgage was quite straight forward to get, just needed the salary cert signing.

The first direct application was made online, so there is no need for a consultation. It only took 48 hours for it to be referred to the underwriters for a no response.

[dances with sheeple]

I agree with the last sentence, but its how much longer they can keep the plates spinning. And i cannot wait much longer due to being a parent with a kid starting school in September.

All the more reason not to jump into massive debt for something that isn`t worth it IMO.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

I agree with the last sentence, but its how much longer they can keep the plates spinning. And i cannot wait much longer due to being a parent with a kid starting school in September.

Blimey...i didn't know you had to own a mortgage before you could send your kids to school...what has the UK come to.