Cottonopolis 2.0 The Rise Of The Machines

[R K]

http://blogs.channel...statement/17638

I'm back in my hometown of Manchester looking into what I thought was frankly crazy talk of re-shoring, re-balancing and re-industrialisation of Manchester's textile industry. The rag trade returning to its historic home. In theory, this is just what George Osborne ordered for the economy, a move away from offshoring, imbalances, and de-industrialisation. But its lessons are not all good for the chancellor.

Go down the road past Oldham to Delph and you will see that not all the mills died. There the trademark 40 ft chimney is still attached to a working mill, Mallalieu's. What is amazing, perhaps, is that he is now starting to export cloth to the Chinese. There is a market.

And if that was not enough, then I hear that even spinning could be about to return. It does sound ridiculous, and it seems to break most of the rules of economics. Siemens, the German industrialist, told me that they were "in discussions" and ready to supply new factories designed for mass textile manufacturing.

"If we don't do it, the Chinese will do it for themselves. There already doing that in Italy," said one new member of Manchester's prospective rag trade mafia

Yet again Machester and the North will have to save the UK from the City and the London rentiers

Bring it on!

Edited December 5, 2012 by R K

[Guest TheBlueCat]

http://blogs.channel...statement/17638

Yet again Machester and the North will have to save the UK from the City and the London rentiers

Bring it on!

Bring back the dark satanic mills! TB will rapidly be followed by great poetry and literature, as well as piles of cash.

Actually, I agree with you entirely, caveats raised in the article obviously included.

[Ulfar]

Watched this, it caused me to scream at the telly and want to break something.

One of the employers was moaning that he couldn't get skilled labour and all the people on the dole are unskilled. Response me screaming, "HOW ABOUT TRAINING THEM YOU ******ER!".

What does he expect people to train themselves.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Ulfar

[enrieb]

Watched this, it caused me to scream at the telly and want to break something.

One of the employers was moaning that he couldn't get skilled labour and all the people on the dole are unskilled. Response me screaming, "HOW ABOUT TRAINING THEM YOU ******ER!".

What does he expect people to train themselves.

TRAINING? TRAINING? Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses in which they can get training?

[bonse]

are we talking one mill with about 10 people working it, forgot about mary portas knicker factory. so 2 mills with 20 people working.

[@contradevian]

Amazingly where I am in West Yorkshire, quite a few textile and textile machinery firms hang on, against all the odds.

[Guest TheBlueCat]

Amazingly where I am in West Yorkshire, quite a few textile and textile machinery firms hang on, against all the odds.

There's quite a lot of specialist stuff survived across the whole country. I never noticed it until moving to the US where you quite often see British cloth alongside Italian and other European ones in high end taylors. This lot make all their cloth in the UK I think for example: http://www.hollandandsherry.com/

[Northern Ruck]

Yorkshire quality will always outlive fashion. http://www.hainsworth.co.uk Since 1783

[@contradevian]

There's quite a lot of specialist stuff survived across the whole country. I never noticed it until moving to the US where you quite often see British cloth alongside Italian and other European ones in high end taylors. This lot make all their cloth in the UK I think for example: http://www.hollandandsherry.com/

Yup people like Cooper and Cooper of England based in Slaithwaite, Huddersfield.

http://www.cooperandcooperofengland.co.uk/

[vin rouge]

Watched this, it caused me to scream at the telly and want to break something.

One of the employers was moaning that he couldn't get skilled labour and all the people on the dole are unskilled. Response me screaming, "HOW ABOUT TRAINING THEM YOU ******ER!".

What does he expect people to train themselves.

He probably meant "skilled" as in being numerate, and able to read and write english.......Oh and not setting off a metal detector with their face.

The two seem to go hand in hand.

[Guest_GradualCringe_*]

Watched this, it caused me to scream at the telly and want to break something.

One of the employers was moaning that he couldn't get skilled labour and all the people on the dole are unskilled. Response me screaming, "HOW ABOUT TRAINING THEM YOU ******ER!".

What does he expect people to train themselves.

Things like state mandated minimum wage, maternity leave and paternity leave make this very difficult i.e. until workers become productive enough to meet and exceed these costs employers have to absorb them.

[rented]

He probably meant "skilled" as in being numerate, and able to read and write english.......Oh and not setting off a metal detector with their face.

The two seem to go hand in hand.

Plenty of unemployed students with decent A-levels, plenty of unemployed graduates, plenty of people who previously used their literacy and numeracy in the job they had a job before becoming unemployed. All the employer needs to do is spend a little bit of money on training one of them.

[@contradevian]

Plenty of unemployed students with decent A-levels, plenty of unemployed graduates, plenty of people who previously used their literacy and numeracy in the job they had a job before becoming unemployed. All the employer needs to do is spend a little bit of money on training one of them.

You occasionally get textile mill owners complaining they can't get staff, and they are prepared to train young. However the young apparently are not that keen seeing textiles as a dying industry.

Its not a case of turn up, learn on the job and after a few hours you should have "got it."

http://www.examiner....86081-28480778/

TEXTILE boss Gordon Hawley wanted apprentice pattern weavers to keep his historic business going

He thought with thousands of youngsters in the jobless queue, the task would be easy. But far from it.

After many months of advertising and recruiting, Mr Hawley has been unable to find young people to take on the task.

And now he has warned: "Our specialised textile industry will not survive if young people cannot be found to enter the business."

Mr Hawley has been searching without success for apprentices to join Paragon Textiles in St John's Road. He is looking to take one on immediately and a second within six months.He has put the word around the industry that he is recruiting and has contacted the Textile Centre of Excellence, located in Paragon's former premises at Red Doles Lane, for help.He has also advertised for apprentices in newspapers and at the Jobcentre. He says he is prepared to pay over the odds for the right person who shows aptitude and initiative. But all to no avail.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Secure Tenant

[alexw]

You occasionally get textile mill owners complaining they can't get staff, and they are prepared to train young. However the young apparently are not that keen seeing textiles as a dying industry.

Its not a case of turn up, learn on the job and after a few hours you should have "got it."

http://www.examiner....86081-28480778/

Tbh having read that article, i'm not that surprised they can't find apprentices. They are extremely extremely niche, anyone who they train up has skills that really can't be used much anywhere else. If I were younger I'd be wary of working for them because of it. And as you say the young will almost certainly see it as a dead or dying industry. They will also almost certainly have very little public exposure being so small and niche. If he's trying to get apprentices then he'd have to pay a significant premium to attract candidates because of these factors. That's just the way it goes sometimes. I do wonder what hes offering his apprentices.

[Self Employed Youth]

I do wonder what hes offering his apprentices.

£2.60 an hour whilst claiming the government subsidy?

[@contradevian]

Tbh having read that article, i'm not that surprised they can't find apprentices. They are extremely extremely niche, anyone who they train up has skills that really can't be used much anywhere else. If I were younger I'd be wary of working for them because of it. And as you say the young will almost certainly see it as a dead or dying industry. They will also almost certainly have very little public exposure being so small and niche. If he's trying to get apprentices then he'd have to pay a significant premium to attract candidates because of these factors. That's just the way it goes sometimes. I do wonder what hes offering his apprentices.

yes but I'm thinking finding something extremely niche, perhaps isn't too easily automated and requires a few years of training is perhaps the key to survival!

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

http://blogs.channel...statement/17638

Yet again Machester and the North will have to save the UK from the City and the London rentiers

Bring it on!

You getting your hands dirty?

[alexw]

yes but I'm thinking finding something extremely niche, perhaps isn't too easily automated and requires a few years of training is perhaps the key to survival!

Perhaps when your older that is the way to go. There's not as much of a loss going niche and finding it doesn't work out.

But when your young and that happens there's a much longer time frame for which the skills you picked up are wasted.

[billybong]

They're 'aving a laff.

http://

www.britishclassiccomedy.co.uk/2011/06/everybody-out-its-the-rag-trade-the-bbc-years

[R K]

You getting your hands dirty?

We're all mill boys SYNT,

Stuck on the hill boys

Stuck in the mill boys

Until our dying day.

[BNS]

There is no shortage of workers.

Whenever an industry claims a shortage, what the industry means is that the don't want to pay current wages (even if the wage is min or apprentice rate), they want slaves who will work for nothing.

Cousin is a mid tier accountant bricking himself about his job, he has a junior on apprentice pay, my cousin's boss thinks the apprentice wage is far too high.

Same in catering, bosses don't want to pay the going rate which is why most companies love workfare so they can essentially get slaves.

My thought right now is that such people should take on workfare, and SABOTAGE as much as possible those companies. So it costs them massive amounts of bad PR and loses them customers so they lose considerably MORE business than any benefit workfare or low pay gives them.

[Ruffneck]

Terrible news, no more converted factory townhouse units!

[@contradevian]

My thought right now is that such people should take on workfare, and SABOTAGE as much as possible those companies. So it costs them massive amounts of bad PR and loses them customers so they lose considerably MORE business than any benefit workfare or low pay gives them.

I think if I were ever forced into workfare I think I would commit sabotage. It would be very subtle though.

[BNS]

I think if I were ever forced into workfare I think I would commit sabotage. It would be very subtle though.

Bugs in salads etc, damaged packaging, whoops whole load of apples got bruised falling onto the floor.

Bugs and unclean food is the biggie though, somebody finds a dead mouse in some food, they'll go to the paper, massive massive negative publicity and at least one customer lost for life.

[Traktion]

There is no shortage of workers.

Whenever an industry claims a shortage, what the industry means is that the don't want to pay current wages (even if the wage is min or apprentice rate), they want slaves who will work for nothing.

Cousin is a mid tier accountant bricking himself about his job, he has a junior on apprentice pay, my cousin's boss thinks the apprentice wage is far too high.

Same in catering, bosses don't want to pay the going rate which is why most companies love workfare so they can essentially get slaves.

My thought right now is that such people should take on workfare, and SABOTAGE as much as possible those companies. So it costs them massive amounts of bad PR and loses them customers so they lose considerably MORE business than any benefit workfare or low pay gives them.

If they stopped price fixing with the national minimum wage legislation, then we may get to find out what the market rate for juniors/low skilled is.

Instead, we get understaffed businesses, along side unemployed low skilled/young workers. Who exactly is being 'helped' by NMW?

BTW, a bit OT, but I stumbled across this youtube video the other day which made a good point. If NMW doesn't result in less workers, why would a minimum price on alcohol result in less people drinking booze?