More Violence Please - Were British

[right_freds_dead]

now, im no man of violence. i like to nip on a pimms by a chattering fireside with an old blanket around my lap. hound at my feet and wife in the farmhouse kitchen cooking a big pie.

but,

if i was a twenty something full of spunk and gusto, id be cruising the bars looking for a fresh filly to settle down with. after a few months a suitor is often found and a relationship evolves. next stage - commitment.

whoa - hold up love. how am i going to get hold of a laminated love nest around here. i only get say average of a 25yr old north west semi skilled office worker wage of £18k. (this is the wigan norm). i gets on my train at 7.30am and work 9-6 with saturdays working at home sometime. this should do the trick.

what - no. ? i cant afford one.?

how come im working, have a lady and i need to settle down please.

ok, i cant buy. how about a nice council flat ?

sorry sir. weve none left.

housing association ?

no lets available im afraid. we do have some (ahem) 50-50 deals.?

private landlord.

hi, welcome. no pets, no dss, no smoking, no children and the deposits £1200 and the rents slightly less than half your monthly income. interested ?

no thanks.

that leaves staying with my parents for more years. BAH !!

c'mon honey(s). lets go into town, get totally smashed and kick the streets in.

we have nothing to lose. take those coppas on....yarghh ect...

LETS BINGE DRINK...!!!!

no wonder the youth are getting plastered and causing chaos. its clear under the current government they have no future in this country. no stake. or no reason to go along with a system bent against them.

id be really angry. if i wasnt so old that is.

[Elizabeth]

I'm waiting for a tent city in Hyde Park... oh that right... they move them on don't they.

[Golden Shower]

Yeah, but how many of them vote? 30% maybe? I see your argument and sometimes I feel for people who are just 5-10 years behind me, but if they can't be ar*ed neither can I.

If they are unhappy with their lot change it! I can remember an office cleaner who complained endlessly at my last place, "Only pay me £5 an hour....". Should have tried harder at school.

A good profession or trade helps.

[right_freds_dead]

A good profession or trade helps.

no it doesnt. that was my whole point.

nothing helps the under 30s. no pay. no job no nothing.

granted they dont vote. but dont ask why you cant take anyone civilised into town anymore at the weekends.

people are getting angry, though i dont think they understand why life has become impossible.

[apom]

Yeah, but how many of them vote? 30% maybe? I see your argument and sometimes I feel for people who are just 5-10 years behind me, but if they can't be ar*ed neither can I.

If they are unhappy with their lot change it! I can remember an office cleaner who complained endlessly at my last place, "Only pay me £5 an hour....". Should have tried harder at school.

A good profession or trade helps.

No it doesent help...

You see we are talking about a generation. Not a social class a generation..

A generation that can't afford a home..

A few who take a massive risk in a world with raising interest rates.. in a country that has just proved that a drop in interest rates almost causes it an embolisim

You want everyone to earn enough to buy at todays prices.,,,,?

do you...??

Well that my friend is a call for massive inflation..

Unfortunate though..

The MPC is not there to protect your debt by inflating it away..

They are there to stop inflation

so..

the only way for that to happen is for house prices to drop.

Your debt???

sorry that is your debt.

do not expect the rest of us to carry it for you.

There will be inflation.

But the governments policy and the MPC directive is to resist this with all of their strength..

the debt I am afraid.. is yours, not mine.

and you have it for life.

move aside, our time is on its way..

[Guest Charlie The Tramp]

no wonder the youth are getting plastered and causing chaos. its clear under the current government they have no future in this country. no stake. or no reason to go along with a system bent against them.

id be really angry. if i wasnt so old that is.

Maybe some brave interviewer could do a survey when they come out of the bars completely plastered and ask them why they binge drink. Reckon that should produce some interesting answers.

Always wondered why they kick the s**t out of each other.

[2005]

We are seeing the middle class youth behaving in the same way as the socially excluded youth on a council estate.

The only difference is that the middle class youth gets p1ssed up in a trendy bar instead of in the park with a cheap bottle of cider.

This country treats it's youth like trash. It treats kids like rubbish - it has socially excluded lower class kids, especially black males and now it is doing the same to everyone under 30 years.

And people wonder why the youth of today have no respect. NO RESPECT - what are they supposed to respect.

An older generation and a government who have closed off every avenue of self fullfillment and progress to them.

A government that got it's university edcuation for free but makes them pay

An older generation who could buy a home if they worked hard but now wants to bleed every penny out of the younger generation until they are priced out of the market.

If you ask me the problem with the youth today is that we have delayed entry to adulthood. So is it any wonder they continue to behave like children.

Twenty years ago a 22/23 year old would be married with there own home and a kid on the way - responsibility.

Now - the government assess you as being financilly dependent on your parents until you are 21yrs. You stay in education until you are a young adult. You can't settle down and think about starting a family until you are 35yrs.

When the older genertion complain about the youth of today they should look towards their own generation - it is them that bought this youth up and created the society we live in today.

[mad'un]

I have just been taking a look at the news and how easily violence and rioting has spread to 20 towns in France. Frustration so easily gets out of control. The frustrations felt by my generation (late 20's) of having to work stupid hours just to have a "normal" life is basically dumbed down by two main things - 1) Alcohol - either drinking out or at home, people on average drink way too much. 2) Consumerism - The excitment over the next purchase.

Yes, I fear it is going to get messy

[jacob]

We are seeing the middle class youth behaving in the same way as the socially excluded youth on a council estate.

The only difference is that the middle class youth gets p1ssed up in a trendy bar instead of in the park with a cheap bottle of cider.

This country treats it's youth like trash. It treats kids like rubbish - it has socially excluded lower class kids, especially black males and now it is doing the same to everyone under 30 years.

And people wonder why the youth of today have no respect. NO RESPECT - what are they supposed to respect.

An older generation and a government who have closed off every avenue of self fullfillment and progress to them.

A government that got it's university edcuation for free but makes them pay

An older generation who could buy a home if they worked hard but now wants to bleed every penny out of the younger generation until they are priced out of the market.

If you ask me the problem with the youth today is that we have delayed entry to adulthood. So is it any wonder they continue to behave like children.

Twenty years ago a 22/23 year old would be married with there own home and a kid on the way - responsibility.

Now - the government assess you as being financilly dependent on your parents until you are 21yrs. You stay in education until you are a young adult. You can't settle down and think about starting a family until you are 35yrs.

When the older genertion complain about the youth of today they should look towards their own generation - it is them that bought this youth up and created the society we live in today.

Maybe it is very difficult today but it has never been easy for young people.

I believe that it is more likely that young people have no respect simply because they have been raised with the wrong set of values. Young people spend money they don't have, drive around in expensive car they cannot afford, drink a lot and pretend to live a lifestyle that previous generations did not even dream of.

Work is considered something stupid to do, no wonder so many people want to be celebrities...

[delboypass]

Weve excluded black males....another great PC viewpoint backup up with evidence.

We did try to include them but when we turned around, they were out on the rob.

I totally agree though, that everyone now i know is turning to drink and weekends with more passion. They muddle their way through their mundane jobs waiting til the weekend were they explode onto a bar with all they have earned until they cant walk anymore. And yes it is because they can no longer progress through life because of one key factor.

they cannot get on with life because they cannot get their independance because they cannot get into a house.

Housing and house prices have caused the collapse of the generation perhaps i would suggest under 35 year olds.

[FedupTeddiBear]

Maybe it is very difficult today but it has never been easy for young people.

I believe that it is more likely that young people have no respect simply because they have been raised with the wrong set of values. Young people spend money they don't have, drive around in expensive car they cannot afford, drink a lot and pretend to live a lifestyle that previous generations did not even dream of.

Work is considered something stupid to do, no wonder so many people want to be celebrities...

Something to think about

WHO raised them with that wrong set of values?

Perhaps they buy expensive cars because they want to own something - no chance of a house.

The way they behave seems to smack of a sense of hopelessness for the future. Why is the government pushing so many young people into university education when a huge number qualify to find themselves UNABLE, not unwilling to find a job suited to their qualifications and that earns them enough to start repaying their huge student debts?

(I'm not speaking for myself, by the way)

[apom]

Maybe it is very difficult today but it has never been easy for young people.

I believe that it is more likely that young people have no respect simply because they have been raised with the wrong set of values. Young people spend money they don't have, drive around in expensive car they cannot afford, drink a lot and pretend to live a lifestyle that previous generations did not even dream of.

Work is considered something stupid to do, no wonder so many people want to be celebrities...

Actually, of my close friends that I grew up with in a poor area of devon.. I have

A friend in new york.

Honk Kong.

Amsterdam.. (Stoned waster but happy)

Brussels.

In England..

One is an enginear.

One is Solicitor

I am a network manager..

Most of us are not lazy buddy..

some are..

But none of my friends have children.. We can't afford to..

But they are pumping them out ten to the dozen in the council estates.

Thats going to help the Gene Pool.

I think our generation is learning about the reality of money as we struggle with massive prices..

Perhaps more so then the gneration above the created this unholly mess

[Plastic Elastic]

now, im no man of violence. i like to nip on a pimms by a chattering fireside with an old blanket around my lap. hound at my feet and wife in the farmhouse kitchen cooking a big pie.

but,

if i was a twenty something full of spunk and gusto, id be cruising the bars looking for a fresh filly to settle down with. after a few months a suitor is often found and a relationship evolves. next stage - commitment.

whoa - hold up love. (...)

what - no. ? i cant afford one.?

(...)

no thanks.

that leaves staying with my parents for more years. BAH !!

c'mon honey(s). lets go into town, get totally smashed and kick the streets in.

we have nothing to lose. take those coppas on....yarghh ect...

LETS BINGE DRINK...!!!!

no wonder the youth are getting plastered and causing chaos. its clear under the current government they have no future in this country. no stake. or no reason to go along with a system bent against them.

id be really angry. if i wasnt so old that is.

There is a bloody huge gap between rich and poor in this country, and I believe to have read a while ago it's bigger than anywhere else in the EU.

Some facts in this article:

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/thinktanks/...1274517,00.html

Quote:

The richest 1% of the population have increased their share of national income from around 6% in 1980 to 13% in 1999. The wealthiest 10% of the population now own more than half the country's wealth - up from 47% to 54% over the past 10 years.

Well done! That's at least one reason why venturing into the city centre on a Friday night can be such a menacing experience...

[TW11]

People in their twenties should be in their starter homes sat in front of Casualty with the missus on a Saturday night with the kids tucked up in bed.

No chance of that these days. How did mum and dad do it in their day? Fck it. Might as well go out and get pi$$ed.

[Guest]

It's either quick crash or huge pay demands from here on in. New Labour are shafted, and I'm pretty surprised that the Tories and Lib Dems aren't making more of an effort laying in for the kill, even just to stir some sh*t a bit.

Edited November 3, 2005 by megaflop

[right_freds_dead]

It's either quick crash or huge pay demands from here on in. New Labour are shafted, and I'm pretty surprised that the Tories and Lib Dems aren't making more of an effort laying in for the kill, even just to stir some sh*t a bit.

because all 3 parties are play moneyopolitics. money first. when youve been squeezed enough along comes a knight in shining armour and low and behold who is it ?

why its the old party of before that ruined it last time.

and so the game continues.

were/your all muppets.

Edited November 4, 2005 by right_freds_dead

[Saving For a Space Ship]

We are seeing the middle class youth behaving in the same way as the socially excluded youth on a council estate.

The only difference is that the middle class youth gets p1ssed up in a trendy bar instead of in the park with a cheap bottle of cider.

This country treats it's youth like trash. It treats kids like rubbish - it has socially excluded lower class kids, especially black males and now it is doing the same to everyone under 30 years.

And people wonder why the youth of today have no respect. NO RESPECT - what are they supposed to respect.

An older generation and a government who have closed off every avenue of self fullfillment and progress to them.

A government that got it's university edcuation for free but makes them pay

An older generation who could buy a home if they worked hard but now wants to bleed every penny out of the younger generation until they are priced out of the market.

If you ask me the problem with the youth today is that we have delayed entry to adulthood. So is it any wonder they continue to behave like children.

Twenty years ago a 22/23 year old would be married with there own home and a kid on the way - responsibility.

Now - the government assess you as being financilly dependent on your parents until you are 21yrs. You stay in education until you are a young adult. You can't settle down and think about starting a family until you are 35yrs.

When the older genertion complain about the youth of today they should look towards their own generation - it is them that bought this youth up and created the society we live in today.

"Twenty years ago a 22/23 year old would be married with there own home and a kid on the way - responsibility."

Really ? not among my peers, 18 years ago I was 22 & like most friends who were middle class & just out of poly / uni. wanted to experience life a bit before what would have been seen as 'turning into your parents' & getting into a life of debt slavery with a mortgage, where you had to keep the nose ot the grind stone to

pay for it, let alone the thought of having kids.

Reminds me of the Specials song ' done to much, much to young, married with a kid, when

you could be having fun with me'

. After being lucky with a start-up biz, I happily spent £1500 on a 1000cc Suzuki Katana Motorcycle

, thinking back on it, that would have made a deposit on a flat. - didn't even consider it.

Maybe this is a measure of how obsessed people have become with houses, I always will have a big problem

with getting in debt for 25 years, especially in such unstable economic times.

People seem to forget that its only 3-9 months of not paying that mortgage, then poss. repo, then auction, to bank chasing you for rest of your life, if you don't go bankrupt.

Too much risk for me at the moment.

It seem to me that blaming unaffordable houses as a major reason for binge drinking is a bit strong , it may be a factor, but I suggest the social pressure to be 'cool' & get pi$$ed rather than be 'intelligent' & do something more intellectual / cultural (like posting on here ) is a bigger factor in this increasing alcoholism.

Friday /Saturday nights in small town England were alway risky places, where a fight with some drunks was always a great possibility.

[Guest muttley]

Hear,hear SFASS!!

I too, put much more emphasis on a decent car than a deposit on a house when I left Uni.(22 years ago)

There wasn't any pressure to side with the property bears or the bulls.

[Smell the Fear]

Hear,hear SFASS!!

I too, put much more emphasis on a decent car than a deposit on a house when I left Uni.(22 years ago)

There wasn't any pressure to side with the property bears or the bulls.

Ah, the early 80's, when houses were for families to live in, and landlords were the scum of the earth.

Seriously, I'm sure when I was a child and not particularly interested in such things (too busy playing with lego/football or electric guitar) I regarded landlords as something akin to loan sharks. Hideous creatures to be avoided at all costs, engaged in a morally reprehensible act. Rachmann, Van Hoogstraten etc. It wasn't something I thought about, just the image imprinted by the small cues in our culture.

When did this public perception of the landlord begin to change? late 90's along with the emergence of the BTL loan?

[right_freds_dead]

yeah. you two guys might not have bought in your 20s, but i know loads form the 80s that did.

being single and at home at say 35 in 1980 would have been unthinkable. most were in terraces with shirleys watching the box and doing nappys.

in fact the whole of ronnie corbets character in 'sorry' was based on living with parents in adulthood.

[George]

I dont like it here

[gabor]

Everything you complain about is due to globalization of labour. In the 90's 2 billion people entered the world market with wages a tenth of that in the EU or US. Jobs are outcompeted in OECD countries by China and India. "Developed" countries can only uphold their previous consumption by borrowing. Borrowing needs increasing asset prices as collateral. That is the reason for HPI and all your misery. Those who dont jump on the asset bubble bandwagon suffer from unemployment, hence the riots in France.

Asian countries are exporting their social problems to Europe.

Edited November 4, 2005 by gabor

[Golden Shower]

no it doesnt. that was my whole point.

nothing helps the under 30s. no pay. no job no nothing.

granted they dont vote. but dont ask why you cant take anyone civilised into town anymore at the weekends.

people are getting angry, though i dont think they understand why life has become impossible.

Many of my friends earn a decent wage. They are skint because they go out and get wasted almost every weekend, spend money on things that are really beyond their pay packets.

[undecided]

one advice I would give in today's society is: GIVE LOVE, NOT MONEY.

People nowdays raise their kids by buying them a TV, nice toys, anything that can keep them away.

But children want love so that, when times are hard, we all stick together and work our way through. Buy them stuff so they stay away from you and they WILL quickly run away from you and you'll be left alone and they will struggle because they will not have any family culture.

The parents are even worse by buying nice cars, nice furniture, nice TVs showing their kids that it is possible, but at what cost. People have to realise that there are rich people who can afford to buy a house and others who can't and will have to rent for the rest of their life. But if they realise that and culture love and family atmosphere, they will never be in serious financial trouble and they will live happily. The problem is that people go too far to get what their neighboor have. Forget about what they have and look at what they ARE, are they happy, are they having fun, real friends ? Think about it and stop worrying.

[SueDeNimm]

"Happiness is making the best of everything, not having the best of everything"

(There's your hallmark card moment for today.)

Unfortunately for lots of us in the UK atm, making the best of everything means accepting that we ain't gonna own our own place any time soon.

Currently I am doing the right thing and saving - but once before I got so f*cked off with the state of this country that I took off and didn't come back for 2 years. When I came back I had to start again. I'm saving again. Maybe nothing will change and I might just be off again.

My escape is getting on a plane and seeing where I go....others is 10 pints down the Bull&Poacher and a kebab and a fight on the way home.......but we're all escaping from the same thing. No future.