For Those Waiting For An Hpc

[exiges]

Here's some top end buy/rent examples. Buying makings NO sense

Indeed, there are some "bargains" (relatively speaking) to be had at the higher end of the market, in terms of renting. The main reasons are that

a) They tend to be reluctant landlords or overseas-working landlords, desperate to get some money in. Professional landlords wouldn't even consider such properties.

b ) Renters don't necessarily want a big house, it's a vanity, when they can rent a much smaller house (same number of bedrooms) before moving onto their purchased property.

We went from owning a large house, to renting a small house (stuff in storage) to owning a large house, we couldn't justify spending a rent premium on a large house.

Just out of interest Count, do you have examples of "averagely priced" houses and their rentable value ?

Edited February 8, 2012 by exiges

[TheCountOfNowhere]

Indeed, there are some "bargains" (relatively speaking) to be had at the higher end of the market, in terms of renting. The main reasons are that

a) They tend to be reluctant landlords or overseas-working landlords, desperate to get some money in. Professional landlords wouldn't even consider such properties.

b ) Renters don't necessarily want a big house, it's a vanity, when they can rent a much smaller house (same number of bedrooms) before moving onto their purchased property.

We went from owning a large house, to renting a small house (stuff in storage) to owning a large house, we couldn't justify spending a rent premium on a large house.

Just out of interest Count, do you have examples of "averagely priced" houses and their rentable value ?

I think the last one is an average house, 4 bed house on an modern soulless estate

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-20393016.html

and

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-32624374.html - £210K

and similar nearby:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-21800712.html - £745pcm

What's that, about 130K mortgage ?

With the smaller house the differential starts to get close, then by the time you get to a flat then you might as well buy as the rents are silly, though you'd be made to pay 100K+ for a flat round northampton.

Although, we have stuff like:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-25680385.html - £162,995

or rent:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-36502478.html - £650pcm

equivalent mortgage, normally about £110K.

-----

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-36608843.html - 89,500

to rent and equivanent one nearby:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-36342350.html - £450pcm

so maybe about 70-80K mortgage.

Edited February 8, 2012 by TheCountOfNowhere

[manchester50]

FFS I don't understand either side in this argument. Why on earth would anyone spend their time browsing RightMove looking for random examples that support one side or the other?

Surely the only thing that matters in buy vs rent are your own individual options? I know how my rent vs house price looks, but it's of bu**er all relevance for anyone besides me and my landlord.

[Lepista]

FFS I don't understand either side in this argument. Why on earth would anyone spend their time browsing RightMove looking for random examples that support one side or the other?

Surely the only thing that matters in buy vs rent are your own individual options? I know how my rent vs house price looks, but it's of bu**er all relevance for anyone besides me and my landlord.

True, but I've not seen one example yet where it's cheaper to buy than to rent.

[manchester50]

True, but I've not seen one example yet where it's cheaper to buy than to rent.

I rent at £1500, house will sell for ~400-420 when the tenancy ends.

I couldn't care less whether it's cheaper to buy or rent. I'm renting it because it suits me.

Why you, or anyone else should care whether it would be cheaper for me to buy it or rent it is frankly beyond me.

[dinker]

This house just down the road from me sold in six days, obviously people feel that prices have bottomed out:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-21605097.html

[Lepista]

I rent at £1500, house will sell for ~400-420 when the tenancy ends.

I couldn't care less whether it's cheaper to buy or rent. I'm renting it because it suits me.

Why you, or anyone else should care whether it would be cheaper for me to buy it or rent it is frankly beyond me.

I couldnt give two hoots about you.

[TheCountOfNowhere]

This house just down the road from me sold in six days, obviously people feel that prices have bottomed out:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-21605097.html

Funny, I like your style.

[exiges]

True, but I've not seen one example yet where it's cheaper to buy than to rent.

I provided one. Here it is again to save you looking:

Rent: £695 : http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-32944507.html

Buy: £130k http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-36551393.html

Interest at 4% on £130k is £433. Repayment mortgage is £695.

The annual HPI for Milton Keynes is -0.8% (source LAND REGISTRY) which equates to £86pcm

If you're comparing renting vs. interest only + adjustment for HPI (ie. you're gaining no equity in either position) that property is £180pcm cheaper than renting. As for the old chestnut of "repairing the boiler" costs, £12 a month to EON insures it.

There's little point comparing renting with repayment, since you're rent increases over the 25yr term with no equity vs increased equity, .

Edited February 8, 2012 by exiges

[Democorruptcy]

Not at all, I just wasn't sure what point you were trying to make since we'd covered the topic of diminishing yields earlier on in the thread.

"Most people" are going to be buying in the £160k range, as that's the average house price. It doesn't seem right to use high value houses or special deals done with an amateur landlord to argue a case for the market in general.

I thought 2.29% was particularly low even by the standards of the many I see all the time so seemed worth a mention but you seemed to be telling me to shut up.

Here's a really top end one for rent at £5k a month that I cannot see for sale. I wonder how much it would be for sale at. For say 7% it would have to be £8.5m. If it was say £5m the yield is only 1.2%

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-31617187.html

When the banks have decided they have roped in enough people and tell Merv to whack interest rates up to bleed them dry, I wonder if they might take £3k a month for it .

[TheCountOfNowhere]

There are many circumstance when buying is sensible:

1) You are rich.

2) You are a cash buyer and wish to buy and not move again

3) You have just sold you gold you bought in 2005

4) You have a familly and a secure job and can well afford your payments as well as having a wedge put by for a rainy day

5) You pay 70% or less of the 2007 peak price

6) You're a crazy BTL-er who can't see past the end of their nose.

Any more ?

You might have notice I omitted, person on average wage, putting every penny they've ever saved + borrowed from parents and getting massive mortgage to buy as expensive a house as possible in the hope of making a killing in the next 10 years

[TheCountOfNowhere]

I provided one. Here it is again to save you looking:

Rent: £695 : http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-36551393.html

Buy: £130k http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-36551393.html

Interest at 4% on £130k is £433. Repayment mortgage is £695.

The annual HPI for Milton Keynes is -0.8% (source LAND REGISTRY) which equates to £86pcm

If you're comparing renting vs. interest only + adjustment for HPI (ie. you're gaining no equity in either position) that property is £180pcm cheaper than renting. As for the old chestnut of "repairing the boiler" costs, £12 a month to EON insures it.

There's little point comparing renting with repayment, since you're rent increases over the 25yr term with no equity vs increased equity, .

I think that;s the same link twice...I get a for sale each time. at 130K, using historical costs of repayment mortgages, around £600 per month for £100K mortgage, then that place would be borderline.

[exiges]

I think that;s the same link twice...I get a for sale each time. at 130K, using historical costs of repayment mortgages, around £600 per month for £100K mortgage, then that place would be borderline.

My bad, I've fixed the link now (it's http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-32944507.html)

[exiges]

Here's another:

Rent: £850 http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-32944507.html

Buy: £142k http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-32877664.html

£142k @ 4% is £470 a month, add £86 adjustment for HPI and it's still £300 a month cheaper to buy than rent that house.

Edited February 8, 2012 by exiges

[Lepista]

I provided one. Here it is again to save you looking:

Rent: £695 : http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-36551393.html

Buy: £130k http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-36551393.html

Interest at 4% on £130k is £433. Repayment mortgage is £695.

The annual HPI for Milton Keynes is -0.8% (source LAND REGISTRY) which equates to £86pcm

If you're comparing renting vs. interest only + adjustment for HPI (ie. you're gaining no equity in either position) that property is £180pcm cheaper than renting. As for the old chestnut of "repairing the boiler" costs, £12 a month to EON insures it.

There's little point comparing renting with repayment, since you're rent increases over the 25yr term with no equity vs increased equity, .

I think that;s the same link twice...I get a for sale each time. at 130K, using historical costs of repayment mortgages, around £600 per month for £100K mortgage, then that place would be borderline.

There are other costs in buying that you don't hav with renting. Once more, for your benfit...:

1. House maintenance costs;

2. Fixtures / fittings maintennce / replacement costs

3. House insurance costs

Again, maintenance costs mean, on average, spending the same as your house cost every 50 years, e.g. 2% of the house value per year... ON AVERAGE.

Therefore the example is not borderline at all - it's heavily in favour of renting.

[Bruce Banner]

There are many circumstance when buying is sensible:

1) You are rich.

2) You are a cash buyer and wish to buy and not move again

3) You have just sold you gold you bought in 2005

4) You have a familly and a secure job and can well afford your payments as well as having a wedge put by for a rainy day

5) You pay 70% or less of the 2007 peak price

6) You're a crazy BTL-er who can't see past the end of their nose.

Any more ?

You might have notice I omitted, person on average wage, putting every penny they've ever saved + borrowed from parents and getting massive mortgage to buy as expensive a house as possible in the hope of making a killing in the next 10 years

I would fall into category 2, but I certainly wouldn't buy now .

[moonriver]

There are many circumstance when buying is sensible:

1) You are rich.

2) You are a cash buyer and wish to buy and not move again

3) You have just sold you gold you bought in 2005

4) You have a familly and a secure job and can well afford your payments as well as having a wedge put by for a rainy day

5) You pay 70% or less of the 2007 peak price

6) You're a crazy BTL-er who can't see past the end of their nose.

Any more ?

at number 5.

... but that might tempt some of us renters into consider placing our savings into bricks and mortar. (maybe)..

[exiges]

There are other costs in buying that you don't hav with renting. Once more, for your benfit...:

1. House maintenance costs;

2. Fixtures / fittings maintennce / replacement costs

3. House insurance costs

Really, that all you've got ? I'll consider my point proven.

If you can't cover those costs with the extra £180 (or £300 in my second example) saved a month then there's something seriously amiss. Insurance is only another £15pcm.

Not forgetting there are costs in renting too, such as budgeting for removals every 12 months (it cost us on average £100 a month over 3yrs) at the whim of the landlord, credit checks, agency fees etc.

Edited February 8, 2012 by exiges

[Toto deVeer]

There are many circumstance when buying is sensible:

1) You are rich.

2) You are a cash buyer and wish to buy and not move again

3) You have just sold you gold you bought in 2005

4) You have a familly and a secure job and can well afford your payments as well as having a wedge put by for a rainy day

5) You pay 70% or less of the 2007 peak price

6) You're a crazy BTL-er who can't see past the end of their nose.

Any more ?

You might have notice I omitted, person on average wage, putting every penny they've ever saved + borrowed from parents and getting massive mortgage to buy as expensive a house as possible in the hope of making a killing in the next 10 years

7) You're a squatter who wants something for nothing?

[Bruce Banner]

Really, that all you've got ? I'll consider my point proven.

If you can't cover those costs with the extra £180 (or £300 in my second example) saved a month then there's something seriously amiss. Insurance is only another £15pcm.

Not forgetting there are costs in renting too, such as budgeting for removals every 12 months (it cost us on average £100 a month over 3yrs) at the whim of the landlord, credit checks, agency fees etc.

When did you buy your house?

[Bruce Banner]

Ah yes.... http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=62777&view=findpost&p=3229604

And you've just started a new business... that would explain your sudden messianic fervour

[Democorruptcy]

The current cost comparison is irrelevant for me. Of course if you bang Bank rate to a 300 year low for a few years, the comparison should be very much in favour of buying.

The fact it is marginal at best is telling. The fact that despite those rates house prices are still drifting south is very telling.

Personally, I am much happier using my capital to earn more than enough to pay for my rent and to continue adding to my pot.

Personally, I don't want the risk of being stuck in Sterling if the time arises.

My position is not the same as everyone's and I would not condemn anyone for choosing to buy a house, even if it were simply to put their mind at rest (or at least swap one set of problems for another ).

A not insignificant point.

[pie-eater]

Well, this thread has turned into a back slapping, hom-fest of renters backing each other's positive experiences up

How very HPC!

[Bruce Banner]

Well, this thread has turned into a back slapping, hom-fest of renters backing each other's positive experiences up

How very HPC!

Wouldn't you be pleased if you'd made £100K or £200K in your pocket by renting for the last few years?

[pie-eater]

Wouldn't you be pleased if you'd made £100K or £200K in your pocket by renting for the last few years?

I did rent for a couple of years.